Columbia ITE - OCI 2009 Forum

[Anonymous User]

# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~270 (67.5%)
V10 Placement: 77 (19.25%)


For comparison, 2006 stats:
# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~390 (97.5%)
V10 Placement: 134 (33.5%)

-------------------------------------
I cannot provide additional details or respond to questions.

[miamiman]

Woah there.

[swester]

# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~270 (67.5%)
V10 Placement: 77 (19.25%)


For comparison, 2006 stats:
# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~390 (97.5%)
V10 Placement: 134 (33.5%)

-------------------------------------
I cannot provide additional details or respond to questions.

Not as bad as I was expecting. Right?

[underachiever]

# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~270 (67.5%)
V10 Placement: 77 (19.25%)


For comparison, 2006 stats:
# of 2L participants (including transfers): ~400
# of 2L's who got at least 1 offer: ~390 (97.5%)
V10 Placement: 134 (33.5%)

-------------------------------------
I cannot provide additional details or respond to questions.

Not as bad as I was expecting. Right?

WORSE!

[Anonymous User]

this data is just from their early interview program and does not include firm jobs acquired through the smaller fall OCI as well through other means.

[legends159]

seeing as how the markets in most places shrunk by 40-60% according to NALP numbers this looks about right.

As a point of comparison (b/c I've seen some people call SLS and CLS peer schools now b/c of the USNWR repuatitonal scores) Dean Kramer said during ASW that there are 2 2L who don't have jobs.

[Anonymous User]

seeing as how the markets in most places shrunk by 40-60% according to NALP numbers this looks about right.

As a point of comparison (b/c I've seen some people call SLS and CLS peer schools now b/c of the USNWR repuatitonal scores) Dean Kramer said during ASW that there are 2 2L who don't have jobs and one was just downright lazy.

as mentioned before, this data concerns only the results of CLS' early interview program (august). i have no data about how many 2Ls don't have any jobs lined up at this point, 8 months later.

[ZXCVBNM]

those 2 2l's must be thrilled the dean is annoucing that during asw. they must feel like shmucks.

[ConMan345]

seeing as how the markets in most places shrunk by 40-60% according to NALP numbers this looks about right.

As a point of comparison (b/c I've seen some people call SLS and CLS peer schools now b/c of the USNWR repuatitonal scores) Dean Kramer said during ASW that there are 2 2L who don't have jobs.

This was as of ASW, not for the OCI. It was probably something like 90% or so.

[Anonymous User]

seeing as how the markets in most places shrunk by 40-60% according to NALP numbers this looks about right.

As a point of comparison (b/c I've seen some people call SLS and CLS peer schools now b/c of the USNWR repuatitonal scores) Dean Kramer said during ASW that there are 2 2L who don't have jobs and one was just downright lazy.

as mentioned before, this data concerns only the results of CLS' early interview program (august). i have no data about how many 2Ls don't have any jobs lined up at this point, 8 months later.

From what I hear, the numbers are considerably better now. OCS put some serious effort into helping out 2Ls who struck out at EIP (OCI). I'd be curious to hear how many 2Ls have jobs for the summer (and I mean paying jobs, unless they actually wanted PI/gov't work), but I'm willing to bet it's way more than 68% of the class. I also think that poor bidding did a significant number of people in, which might do something to explain the offer rate. I've heard that some people just bid way too aggressively considering the economy (perhaps not yet fully appreciating the shitstorm in the legal market), and that others dumped their bids into tough markets (DC, CA without ties to the region, etc).

[Anonymous User]

Hey OP - how did you get the 400 figure for 2L participants? Does it say somewhere in our booklet? (I'm a CLS student as well)

I thought we had just shy of 400 1Ls and about 60 transfers - are you assuming 15% of the class didn't do EIP?

[imchuckbass58]

seeing as how the markets in most places shrunk by 40-60% according to NALP numbers this looks about right.

As a point of comparison (b/c I've seen some people call SLS and CLS peer schools now b/c of the USNWR repuatitonal scores) Dean Kramer said during ASW that there are 2 2L who don't have jobs.

This is just EIP, which is just large firms. As others have said there's also Fall OCI, mail-in campaigns, and public interest/gov't.

The quote I've heard is sitting around 95% with jobs (any jobs) for the 2L class this summer.

[twistedwrister]

This is sobering but not all that surprising. CCN no longer = auto-BigLaw. The data really highlights just how stratified hiring has become. 20% of the class got V10 offers and 33% got nothing.

[Tofu]

wow, better than i expected

[Anonymous User]

Obviously OP posted anon b/c Columbia students were not supposed to share those stats. NYU had the same meeting, and we were given the same instructions (hence anonymous post).

But I can say that NYU's EIW percentage w/ offers is higher than Columbia's for C/O 2011 (EIW/OCI 2009). Not by a whole lot, but still very surprising considering NYU is supposedly the more public interest geared school and Columbia is the big firm geared school.

[270910]

This is sobering but not all that surprising. CCN no longer = auto-BigLaw. The data really highlights just how stratified hiring has become. 20% of the class got V10 offers and 33% got nothing.

Just when you thought law school couldn't get any more stressful... (as noted, these numbers are inflated - Columbia has more like 450+ students after transfers)

[Unemployed]

1. As everyone else mentioned, EIP is followed by "Fall OCI" which results in additional jobs.

2. Numbers are not inflated. Normal class size at Columbia is 370, not 400 (c/o 2012 is an exception), and not everyone participates in EIP.

3. Funny enough, they did not explicitly prohibit us from sharing.

4. I see a great deal of bid/interview mismatches - Some firms with 120 interview spots only got 140 bids, while others with only 40 spots got 200+ bids, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I have the 2006 data, which will make this a much better comparison.

In 2006, 388 2Ls accepted offers from EIP.

[Edit for 'whoops, looks like that was in the OP'.] I can confirm though that it was 388 accepted offers, not 388 with at least one offer (though the numbers would likely be close to one another)

[Unemployed]

I have the 2006 data, which will make this a much better comparison.

In 2006, 388 2Ls accepted offers from EIP.

[Edit for 'whoops, looks like that was in the OP'.] I can confirm though that it was 388 accepted offers, not 388 with at least one offer (though the numbers would likely be close to one another)

I guess the same distinction should be made for the 2009 stats. For 2009, I count 266 total offers accepted, but there are three popular employers who are marked as "0 offers" because they did not provide any data - I guess it's reasonable to assume at least one person accepted an offer from each.

Edit: I am aware that I should probably change my handle before I speak further on the issue.

[Anonymous User]

these numbers are inflated - Columbia has more like 450+ students after transfers

As Unemployed pointed out, your assessment is almost certainly incorrect. Every year, there's a decent chunk of the class that doesn't do EIP. Based on historical trends, I'd say estimating ~400 people did EIP is reasonable, or perhaps even a little on the high side.

Any NYUers care to leak more data? I'd be interested to see. A few questions:
1. Is your percentage rounded? If so, CLS and NYU have essentially identical percentages (both round to 70%). [Edit: the cross-references the number provided here: http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... ba20249c1c]
2. Is your number the percentage of the *entire class* that got a job through OCI, or is it the percentage of the *people participating in OCI* who got a job through OCI? These are very, very different stats.
3. Does your OCI percentage include jobs obtained during some later OCI process, such as fall or winter OCI (if NYU has such a thing)? The Columbia #s are only for EIP, and do not include Fall OCI, resume drops, etc.
4. Does your OCI percentage include PI/gov't jobs? Columbia students doing PI/gov't work go through fall OCI or a separate application process.

[Anonymous User]

OK. Just curious, but are we assuming that 2010 is going to be the "worst" year to graduate from law school? Or is the consensus that "it's just going to keep getting worse?"

[DerrickRose]

OK. Just curious, but are we assuming that 2010 is going to be the "worst" year to graduate from law school? Or is the consensus that "it's just going to keep getting worse?"

The real consensus is that no one has any idea.

But the working thought is that fall '10 OCI is going to be a little better than fall '09 OCI, and we'll go from there.

[MeTalkPrettyOneDay]

OK. Just curious, but are we assuming that 2010 is going to be the "worst" year to graduate from law school? Or is the consensus that "it's just going to keep getting worse?"

The real consensus is that no one has any idea.

But the working thought is that fall '10 OCI is going to be a little better than fall '09 OCI, and we'll go from there.

Agreed. The hope is that '10 OCI (class of '12) will be better than '09 OCI (class of '11), and that summer offer rates (percentage of SAs that turn into jobs) for the class of '11 will be better than the offer rates the class of '10 had.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a cls 2L with no job. I gave up a free ride and a #1 ranking to come here. Traded no debt and no job for prestigious debt and no job. I hate my life.

[legends159]

sorry to hear that. It seems that quite a few transfers to non-HYS got burned during OCI. Have you tried mass mailing? I wouldn't wait for 3L OCI if I were you