Legal Jobs with the best QOL Forum

[myrockyourrock911]

I'm worried about quality of life after law school. I'm open to PI, a firm job, etc., but my main concern is landing work that does not require 80 hour/week + weekends - regardless of pay. I've heard that PI and midlaw would be best for what I'm looking for. This true? Can anyone point me in the direction of specific organizations/agencies/firms that would match this description? Thanks.

[Cavalier]

Law Professor

[myrockyourrock911]

Law Professor

Lol anything outside of academia?

[thedogship]

government lawyers (likely non-DOJ) work less than private attorneys, on average. They also have a lower payscale, but that's part of the trade-off.

[270910]

QoL (roughly speaking based on #of hours required, flexibility of hours, and compensation)

1) Law professors (there's still stress, and it's insanely hard to achieve + requires a lot of self starting, but has unpresedented benefits and freedom with 6 figure pay)
2) Federal government lawyers, in-house lawyers (some variation, but usually solid pay and hours that more closely mimic a 9-5. But don't expect it to be 9-5, because little in the professional world is)
3) Non-mega-firm: there are tons of firms that pick up laterals from mega firms, smaller boutique operations, etc.
4) Mega firms - see most of the vault 100
5) Mega Mega Firms - see Cravath, Wachtell, and a few others - where hours worked are signifigantly higher than the rest of the 'most prestigious' firms.

I'm not sure where public interest jobs fit in...

[JOThompson]

Transactional law, according to a litigation lawyer I know.

[270910]

Transactional law, according to a litigation lawyer I know.

Good point. Big firm litigation attorneys work more and with less flexibility on average, from what I gather.

[Aeroplane]

If you're purely concerned w/QOL and fairly indifferent to pay/prestige, there's always:
contract work
law school admissions or career services
legal recruiting
lexis/westlaw
adjunct professor
compliance rep

and lots of other jobs where you're not really practicing law and may/may not require a JD, but employers often hire JD's and you're still involved with the legal world.

Edit: being a hearing officer is a pretty sweet QOL gig too.

[myrockyourrock911]

If you're purely concerned w/QOL and fairly indifferent to pay/prestige, there's always:
contract work
law school admissions or career services
legal recruiting
lexis/westlaw
adjunct professor
compliance rep

and lots of other jobs where you're not really practicing law and may/may not require a JD, but employers often hire JD's and you're still involved with the legal world.

Interesting. Thanks!

[myrockyourrock911]

QoL (roughly speaking based on #of hours required, flexibility of hours, and compensation)

1) Law professors (there's still stress, and it's insanely hard to achieve + requires a lot of self starting, but has unpresedented benefits and freedom with 6 figure pay)
2) Federal government lawyers, in-house lawyers (some variation, but usually solid pay and hours that more closely mimic a 9-5. But don't expect it to be 9-5, because little in the professional world is)
3) Non-mega-firm: there are tons of firms that pick up laterals from mega firms, smaller boutique operations, etc.
4) Mega firms - see most of the vault 100
5) Mega Mega Firms - see Cravath, Wachtell, and a few others - where hours worked are signifigantly higher than the rest of the 'most prestigious' firms.

I'm not sure where public interest jobs fit in...

Got it.
By PI, I meant working for a something like the ACLU, the Brennan Center, etc.

[nealric]

I wouldn't put Contract work under high QOL.

Being locked in a basement clicking "responsive" or "non-responsive" all day is not my idea of a good quality of life.


Public interest is probably the most rewarding and potentially the least stressful.

[Aeroplane]

I wouldn't put Contract work under high QOL.

Being locked in a basement clicking "responsive" or "non-responsive" all day is not my idea of a good quality of life.


Public interest is probably the most rewarding and potentially the least stressful.

I meant QOL in that you can have some control over hours, take off for a few months & come back, etc. It's not a job that makes career-type demands and stresses people out. It seems similar in nature to data entry, transcription, etc. Some people prefer that kind of stuff, even if you don't.

[thedogship]

Transactional law, according to a litigation lawyer I know.

Good point. Big firm litigation attorneys work more and with less flexibility on average, from what I gather.

Not necessarily. Transactional work can be more unpredictable. There may be weeks where you are not working a ton, but then if a client calls and needs a deal done, you could be working 24 hours a day for two weeks. I haven't heard too many transactional attorneys say they work a lot less, just that their schedules can be different. Otherwise 1) they probably wouldn't be paid the same, and 2) more people would choose transactional.

[nealric]

I meant QOL in that you can have some control over hours, take off for a few months & come back, etc. It's not a job that makes career-type demands and stresses people out. It seems similar in nature to data entry, transcription, etc. Some people prefer that kind of stuff, even if you don't.

You tend to be at the whim of temp agencies. ITE, you can't just decide to work whenever you want- you have to wait by the phone hoping the agency will call you up. So you don't actually have control over the hours.

[Aeroplane]

I meant QOL in that you can have some control over hours, take off for a few months & come back, etc. It's not a job that makes career-type demands and stresses people out. It seems similar in nature to data entry, transcription, etc. Some people prefer that kind of stuff, even if you don't.

You tend to be at the whim of temp agencies. ITE, you can't just decide to work whenever you want- you have to wait by the phone hoping the agency will call you up. So you don't actually have control over the hours.

You do to the extent you're willing to take the risk. And when work is available, at least from what I've heard in my area, you don't have to work a full time schedule if you don't want to. I've heard of people choosing it as a more family-friendly option as compared to a full time salaried position. I just mentioned it as one thing to think about, out of many. Of course, everyone should examine their own preferences, market, and other relevant circumstances. A sole earner for a spouse and three kids, would definitely want something more stable.

[UCLAtransfer]

Not necessarily. Transactional work can be more unpredictable. There may be weeks where you are not working a ton, but then if a client calls and needs a deal done, you could be working 24 hours a day for two weeks. I haven't heard too many transactional attorneys say they work a lot less, just that their schedules can be different. Otherwise 1) they probably wouldn't be paid the same, and 2) more people would choose transactional.

This.

The term "fire drill" applies mainly in transactional practice. When a client calls a partner and says "we are thinking of acquiring X company, and we need to close by Monday morning. 50 boxes of files are on the way to your offices to start on due diligence." Its probably not going to be the partner who stays from Friday afternoon to Monday morning and sleeps in his office.

[myrockyourrock911]

I wouldn't put Contract work under high QOL.

Being locked in a basement clicking "responsive" or "non-responsive" all day is not my idea of a good quality of life.


Public interest is probably the most rewarding and potentially the least stressful.

What type(s) of PI?
Edit - Nvm: referenced the list above.

[lakerfanimal]

This is from my experience at a legal department for a company who treats its employers extremely well, so I don't know if this is a typical example. Having said that, from the place I worked at and hearing about legal departments at other companies as well, I think working as in-house counsel or part of a company's legal team might be better QOL wise than jobs at some big law firms. The hours/week are still around 60, but the environment is a lot more calm/friendly/team-oriented, you don't take as much work home, and they seem to care about you as a person. I've never worked in a big law firm so maybe some of them treat their employees well too, but not from what I've heard.

[myrockyourrock911]

This is from my experience at a legal department for a company who treats its employers extremely well, so I don't know if this is a typical example. Having said that, from the place I worked at and hearing about legal departments at other companies as well, I think working as in-house counsel or part of a company's legal team might be better QOL wise than jobs at some big law firms. The hours/week are still around 60, but the environment is a lot more calm/friendly/team-oriented, you don't take as much work home, and they seem to care about you as a person. I've never worked in a big law firm so maybe some of them treat their employees well too, but not from what I've heard.

Interesting. This is turning into a pretty informative discussion. Anyone else have any input?

[Posner]

.

[ulv_dropout]

I work for a California local government. Was just talking to a friend who is starting a car pool with some of the attorneys here. They will be arriving at 7:30 AM and leaving at 5:00 PM everyday. (Can't really carpool if you work overtime) This is a 9/80 schedule with every other friday off. That schedule is with a half hour lunch, but I see people taking much longer than a full hour everyday.

Edit: Pay scale
$60k to start up to about $150k non management. Not sure what managers and supervisors make, I am guessing somewhere between 150k and 200k. Most counties and cities here post their pay scales on their HR websites.

[Posner]

.

[reasonable_man]

ITT

--ImageRemoved--

[nealric]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

[A'nold]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

Lol!