2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[TigerIsBack]

Feels like today has to be the day that some of the big names come to the table with a real offer for the scale.

[Anonymous User]

Let’s get that bread

[Anonymous User]

Cravath fucked us and put in a low ceiling on bonus increases, but please let today be the day DPW at least doubles the Cravath bonus increases.

[glitched]

If DPW pulls it off and goes 140k+, Cravath, Cleary, BSF are officially tier 2 firms.

[Biglaw Investor]

Can someone who is good at math do an all-in 2021 comp scale for associates by class year? This would include base + special bonuses + Cravath-announced bonuses. Would be interesting to compare all-in comp YOY with special bonuses vs. 2020's covid bonuses.

https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

These amounts are not entirely accurate as the raises went into effect July 1.

Thank you for pointing that out. You're 100% correct. I updated the site to do the math to reflect getting paid 50% of the 2020 salary + 50% of the 2021 salary. New numbers are below for anyone that wants to compare.

Always happy to fix any mistakes anyone finds.

2021 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $205,000 $12,000 $20,000 $229,500
2nd Year $215,000 $16,000 $30,000 $253,500
3rd Year $240,000 $32,000 $57,500 $319,500
4th Year $275,000 $44,000 $75,000 $384,000
5th Year $305,000 $52,000 $90,000 $434,500
6th Year $330,000 $59,200 $105,000 $481,700
7th Year $350,000 $64,000 $115,000 $516,500
8th Year $365,000 $64,000 $115,000 $531,500

2020 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $190,000 $7,500 $15,000 $212,500
2nd Year $200,000 $10,000 $25,000 $235,000
3rd Year $220,000 $20,000 $50,000 $290,000
4th Year $255,000 $27,500 $65,000 $347,500
5th Year $280,000 $32,500 $80,000 $392,500
6th Year $305,000 $37,000 $90,000 $432,000
7th Year $325,000 $40,000 $100,000 $465,000
8th Year $340,000 $40,000 $100,000 $480,000

[backtobiglaw]

Would like to see the people demanding “double the scale” to post their hours. The modest bump that Cravath put out makes no sense for those billing under 2000. Sub-2000 billers have been riding the coattails of the 2500+ crowd for too long.

[Anonymous User]

The dam has to break today. Some combo of DPW, Milbank, or STB are going to come in and top the CravaTTTh scale.

Also echo the sentiment of the poster above who says that this move by Cravath solidifies its T2 status. Really, think about who we look to as comp. leaders these days--it's the list of firms above, plus maybe KE if you include what they're doing w/ laterals and how they top up the market scale albeit black box, maybe Skadden or Paul Weiss as edge cases. When was the last time someone spoke about Cravath and "compensation leader" in the same sentence. 2006? 2010?

In fact, the reputation they're currently building this bonus season appears to be "the firm that tried to fuck the market."

[Anonymous User]

The dam has to break today. Some combo of DPW, Milbank, or STB are going to come in and top the CravaTTTh scale.

Also echo the sentiment of the poster above who says that this move by Cravath solidifies its T2 status. Really, think about who we look to as comp. leaders these days--it's the list of firms above, plus maybe KE if you include what they're doing w/ laterals and how they top up the market scale albeit black box, maybe Skadden or Paul Weiss as edge cases. When was the last time someone spoke about Cravath and "compensation leader" in the same sentence. 2006? 2010?

In fact, the reputation they're currently building this bonus season appears to be "the firm that tried to fuck the market."

They also take lateral associates LOL!

[Anonymous User]

Can someone who is good at math do an all-in 2021 comp scale for associates by class year? This would include base + special bonuses + Cravath-announced bonuses. Would be interesting to compare all-in comp YOY with special bonuses vs. 2020's covid bonuses.

https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

These amounts are not entirely accurate as the raises went into effect July 1.

Thank you for pointing that out. You're 100% correct. I updated the site to do the math to reflect getting paid 50% of the 2020 salary + 50% of the 2021 salary. New numbers are below for anyone that wants to compare.

Always happy to fix any mistakes anyone finds.

2021 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $205,000 $12,000 $20,000 $229,500
2nd Year $215,000 $16,000 $30,000 $253,500
3rd Year $240,000 $32,000 $57,500 $319,500
4th Year $275,000 $44,000 $75,000 $384,000
5th Year $305,000 $52,000 $90,000 $434,500
6th Year $330,000 $59,200 $105,000 $481,700
7th Year $350,000 $64,000 $115,000 $516,500
8th Year $365,000 $64,000 $115,000 $531,500

2020 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $190,000 $7,500 $15,000 $212,500
2nd Year $200,000 $10,000 $25,000 $235,000
3rd Year $220,000 $20,000 $50,000 $290,000
4th Year $255,000 $27,500 $65,000 $347,500
5th Year $280,000 $32,500 $80,000 $392,500
6th Year $305,000 $37,000 $90,000 $432,000
7th Year $325,000 $40,000 $100,000 $465,000
8th Year $340,000 $40,000 $100,000 $480,000

So if this is right, the whining about inflation is a bit ridiculous. Raises for a given class year are 10-11% across the board for years 3+ (e.g. 4th years get paid 10.5% more this year than 4th years last year). And for a given person, average comp increases were 24% (e.g. a 5th year this year earns 25% more than they did last year as a fourth year). CPI inflation in the last 12 months was 6.2%.

This shows exactly why essentially none of you are actually going to quit. You can be sad that you didn't get the bonus you hoped for, but the reality is that your pay is rising massively, and far faster than the average in the economy and far faster than prices.

And we constantly hear about how partners are taking all the money, but I can assure you the average partner is not taking home 25% more than last year. I know the projected PPP numbers for a V10 and it's not close to that.

[Anonymous User]

Not to state the obvious, but I think what is happening is that (1) DPW/Milbank want to raise, but not be outdone by the other (we all call it the DPW scale, even though Milbank started the recent increases) and (2) the rest of the pack just want the market to settle before they announce anything. My firm already told us they’re matching whatever the NY market settles at, so not too concerned either way, unless this game of chess somehow ends up screwing all of us and everyone just matches CravaTTTh.

[nahumya]

Can someone who is good at math do an all-in 2021 comp scale for associates by class year? This would include base + special bonuses + Cravath-announced bonuses. Would be interesting to compare all-in comp YOY with special bonuses vs. 2020's covid bonuses.

https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

These amounts are not entirely accurate as the raises went into effect July 1.

Thank you for pointing that out. You're 100% correct. I updated the site to do the math to reflect getting paid 50% of the 2020 salary + 50% of the 2021 salary. New numbers are below for anyone that wants to compare.

Always happy to fix any mistakes anyone finds.

2021 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $205,000 $12,000 $20,000 $229,500
2nd Year $215,000 $16,000 $30,000 $253,500
3rd Year $240,000 $32,000 $57,500 $319,500
4th Year $275,000 $44,000 $75,000 $384,000
5th Year $305,000 $52,000 $90,000 $434,500
6th Year $330,000 $59,200 $105,000 $481,700
7th Year $350,000 $64,000 $115,000 $516,500
8th Year $365,000 $64,000 $115,000 $531,500

2020 Biglaw Salary Scale
CLASS SALARY SPECIAL ANNUAL TOTAL
1st Year $190,000 $7,500 $15,000 $212,500
2nd Year $200,000 $10,000 $25,000 $235,000
3rd Year $220,000 $20,000 $50,000 $290,000
4th Year $255,000 $27,500 $65,000 $347,500
5th Year $280,000 $32,500 $80,000 $392,500
6th Year $305,000 $37,000 $90,000 $432,000
7th Year $325,000 $40,000 $100,000 $465,000
8th Year $340,000 $40,000 $100,000 $480,000

Thanks, Josh.

[cfcm]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

[Anonymous User]

CSM killed it by setting the ceiling. There is no real incentive to trump them after all the previous bonuses that have been paid out this year.

[peoplearehungry]

So if this is right, the whining about inflation is a bit ridiculous. Raises for a given class year are 10-11% across the board for years 3+ (e.g. 4th years get paid 10.5% more this year than 4th years last year). And for a given person, average comp increases were 24% (e.g. a 5th year this year earns 25% more than they did last year as a fourth year). CPI inflation in the last 12 months was 6.2%.

This shows exactly why essentially none of you are actually going to quit. You can be sad that you didn't get the bonus you hoped for, but the reality is that your pay is rising massively, and far faster than the average in the economy and far faster than prices.

And we constantly hear about how partners are taking all the money, but I can assure you the average partner is not taking home 25% more than last year. I know the projected PPP numbers for a V10 and it's not close to that.

I'll make a deal with you: You comp me as a middle-of-the-pack V10 partner (let's call it 3 mil a year), including any up-side or down-side they face in fluctuation of income due to year-to-year changes in profits, and I will not complain if the increase in my compensation does not keep up on a percentage basis with the raise of an associate moving from 3rd to 4th year.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

Hard disagree about this. DPW/STB/Millbank get off on trumping Cravath and reminding associates (and partners) who the actual comp. leaders are and which firms are truly doing well vs. which are resting on prestige. There's no way this scale stays static.

Now, you could still argue that Cravath fucked us all by framing it around a shitty scale to begin with (someone made this point pages ago). So even if DPW comes out another 5-15k per class year in absolute terms it's not that great vs. the industry's profitability. But no way they just let Cravath set scale this year there's too much competition for talent.

[Anonymous User]

So if this is right, the whining about inflation is a bit ridiculous. Raises for a given class year are 10-11% across the board for years 3+ (e.g. 4th years get paid 10.5% more this year than 4th years last year). And for a given person, average comp increases were 24% (e.g. a 5th year this year earns 25% more than they did last year as a fourth year). CPI inflation in the last 12 months was 6.2%.

This shows exactly why essentially none of you are actually going to quit. You can be sad that you didn't get the bonus you hoped for, but the reality is that your pay is rising massively, and far faster than the average in the economy and far faster than prices.

And we constantly hear about how partners are taking all the money, but I can assure you the average partner is not taking home 25% more than last year. I know the projected PPP numbers for a V10 and it's not close to that.

I'll make a deal with you: You comp me as a middle-of-the-pack V10 partner (let's call it 3 mil a year), including any up-side or down-side they face in fluctuation of income due to year-to-year changes in profits, and I will not complain if the increase in my compensation does not keep up on a percentage basis with the raise of an associate moving from 3rd to 4th year.

Perfect response. His "analysis" makes the classic relative vs. absolute mistake.

[TLSposter1990]

CSM killed it by setting the ceiling. There is no real incentive to trump them after all the previous bonuses that have been paid out this year.

I disagree. All the reasons espoused in the earlier pages of this thread still apply: banner year, record attrition, need to reward retention, badly needed morale boost, etc. DPW's PPP was over $6.3 million last year and in all likelihood will crack $7 million this year. I think they understand that their associates expect more than what Cravath put out there, and I am even more confident that some form of spring and/or fall bonus will still be announced as the proverbial carrot to keep associates on the treadmill for 2022.

[Anonymous User]

I tend to think if DPW/Milbank were going to just match Cravath, they would’ve done it already. I think we will see a raise of the scale this week. I don’t think it will be an earth-shattering amount though.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

Hard disagree about this. DPW/STB/Millbank get off on trumping Cravath and reminding associates (and partners) who the actual comp. leaders are and which firms are truly doing well vs. which are resting on prestige. There's no way this scale stays static.

Now, you could still argue that Cravath fucked us all by framing it around a shitty scale to begin with (someone made this point pages ago). So even if DPW comes out another 5-15k per class year in absolute terms it's not that great vs. the industry's profitability. But no way they just let Cravath set scale this year there's too much competition for talent.

Does firm management really think in these terms though? Particularly the idea that these firms “get off” on trumping Cravath seems dubious — that’s attributing to the partnership of these firms the same petty, internecine/prestige-obsessed mindset that prevails among 0Ls on this forum.

I can see why partners at DPW/Milbank/STB/etc. would care a lot about preventing mass associate defections, but do they care about being seen as “true comp. leaders”? Is the intangible bump in preftige worth it to them? (Even the premise itself is wrong-headed, since neither DPW nor Milbank have moved super materially in Vault rankings…)

[Anonymous User]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

Hard disagree about this. DPW/STB/Millbank get off on trumping Cravath and reminding associates (and partners) who the actual comp. leaders are and which firms are truly doing well vs. which are resting on prestige. There's no way this scale stays static.

Now, you could still argue that Cravath fucked us all by framing it around a shitty scale to begin with (someone made this point pages ago). So even if DPW comes out another 5-15k per class year in absolute terms it's not that great vs. the industry's profitability. But no way they just let Cravath set scale this year there's too much competition for talent.

Does firm management really think in these terms though? Particularly the idea that these firms “get off” on trumping Cravath seems dubious — that’s attributing to the partnership of these firms the same petty, internecine/prestige-obsessed mindset that prevails among 0Ls on this forum.

I can see why partners at DPW/Milbank/STB/etc. would care a lot about preventing mass associate defections, but do they care about being seen as “true comp. leaders”? Is the intangible bump in preftige worth it to them? (Even the premise itself is wrong-headed, since neither DPW nor Milbank have moved super materially in Vault rankings…)

Translate "get off" into "sending a clear signal to both the lateral and new attorney market about the firm's relative competitiveness and financial strength ... plus 5% just getting off on fucking Cravath."

[Anonymous User]

So if this is right, the whining about inflation is a bit ridiculous. Raises for a given class year are 10-11% across the board for years 3+ (e.g. 4th years get paid 10.5% more this year than 4th years last year). And for a given person, average comp increases were 24% (e.g. a 5th year this year earns 25% more than they did last year as a fourth year). CPI inflation in the last 12 months was 6.2%.

This shows exactly why essentially none of you are actually going to quit. You can be sad that you didn't get the bonus you hoped for, but the reality is that your pay is rising massively, and far faster than the average in the economy and far faster than prices.

And we constantly hear about how partners are taking all the money, but I can assure you the average partner is not taking home 25% more than last year. I know the projected PPP numbers for a V10 and it's not close to that.

During an office-wide meeting, a partner at my V10 claimed that the value of a share was projected +25-30% this year. Will that be the case for every partner at every firm? No, of course not. Might it be the case for the average partner at DPW? Yes, absolutely.

Also the fact that comp has gone up some doesn't mean people aren't going to quit? Big law associates as a class are probably making less on a per hour basis than 3 years ago, even before adjusting for inflation. And people absolutely are quitting...a 5% comp increase after inflation is not enough to convince a lot of people to continue working these hours.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

Hard disagree about this. DPW/STB/Millbank get off on trumping Cravath and reminding associates (and partners) who the actual comp. leaders are and which firms are truly doing well vs. which are resting on prestige. There's no way this scale stays static.

Now, you could still argue that Cravath fucked us all by framing it around a shitty scale to begin with (someone made this point pages ago). So even if DPW comes out another 5-15k per class year in absolute terms it's not that great vs. the industry's profitability. But no way they just let Cravath set scale this year there's too much competition for talent.

Does firm management really think in these terms though? Particularly the idea that these firms “get off” on trumping Cravath seems dubious — that’s attributing to the partnership of these firms the same petty, internecine/prestige-obsessed mindset that prevails among 0Ls on this forum.

I can see why partners at DPW/Milbank/STB/etc. would care a lot about preventing mass associate defections, but do they care about being seen as “true comp. leaders”? Is the intangible bump in preftige worth it to them? (Even the premise itself is wrong-headed, since neither DPW nor Milbank have moved super materially in Vault rankings…)

Milbank jumped 15 spots, into the v25, immediately after raising the market to 190k. There was an immediate reaction to the raise. This year Milbank raised salaries again but was immediately beaten by DPW. It is doubtful that associates will reward Milbank during the spring's vault surveys for a base compensation scale set by DPW. So if Milbank is looking to jump into the v20 or higher, then it has every incentive to beat whatever bonus scale DPW puts out.

Whether Vault rankings actually impact recruiting quality is a totally separate question.

[Anonymous User]

Former DPW associate here.

DPW partners wouldn’t alter their behavior to get one over on Cravath. Of course, partners are human and understand CSM’s position in the market, so that doesn’t mean some wouldn’t enjoy it, even if it’s not the primary motivator. FWIW, while Cravath is obviously a peer to DPW, DPW doesn’t measure itself against Cravath — it views S&C and STB as its primary benchmarks (which makes sense given the relative sizes, practice area strengths and international locations).

I also never got the sense that the partnership cared too much about Vault rankings. When Latham and Kirkland passed DPW, there was really no mention of it, and there was absolutely no discernible impact on recruiting. (I think NY lawyers (and law students) pretty widely understand that the hierarchy of NY firms are Wachtell > Cravath/S&C/DPW/STB > the rest). So as long as PPP is at insane levels, RPL is at insane levels and the firm is picking 75%+ of its class from YHSCCN, the partners really don’t care if they slip in the Vault rankings.

All that said, I think DPW partners do “care” about associate morale and rewarding associates (even if it’s just based on their own self-interest) more than CSM partners do. And I think that is what has driven some of the recent one-uppings of Cravath. CSM partners truly do seem to labor under the delusion that associates are “lucky” to work there, and I think their general arrogance will be an encumbrance for them going forward.

[TheoO]

Everyone will match Cravath and that will be that, sadly.

Hard disagree about this. DPW/STB/Millbank get off on trumping Cravath and reminding associates (and partners) who the actual comp. leaders are and which firms are truly doing well vs. which are resting on prestige. There's no way this scale stays static.

Now, you could still argue that Cravath fucked us all by framing it around a shitty scale to begin with (someone made this point pages ago). So even if DPW comes out another 5-15k per class year in absolute terms it's not that great vs. the industry's profitability. But no way they just let Cravath set scale this year there's too much competition for talent.

Does firm management really think in these terms though? Particularly the idea that these firms “get off” on trumping Cravath seems dubious — that’s attributing to the partnership of these firms the same petty, internecine/prestige-obsessed mindset that prevails among 0Ls on this forum.

I can see why partners at DPW/Milbank/STB/etc. would care a lot about preventing mass associate defections, but do they care about being seen as “true comp. leaders”? Is the intangible bump in preftige worth it to them? (Even the premise itself is wrong-headed, since neither DPW nor Milbank have moved super materially in Vault rankings…)

Milbank jumped 15 spots, into the v25, immediately after raising the market to 190k. There was an immediate reaction to the raise. This year Milbank raised salaries again but was immediately beaten by DPW. It is doubtful that associates will reward Milbank during the spring's vault surveys for a base compensation scale set by DPW. So if Milbank is looking to jump into the v20 or higher, then it has every incentive to beat whatever bonus scale DPW puts out.

Whether Vault rankings actually impact recruiting quality is a totally separate question.

I'm pretty sure people reward first mover. I think Milbank was also "beaten" in follow-up to last set of raises also.

[TigerIsBack]

Seeming less likely that something comes today. What is everyone waiting on, these bonuses are going to be payable soon!