V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

My T14 does not provide a GPA so I have to figure it out. 1L slightly above a B. Meaning that whatever 2B+ and 2A- can do to lift 4Bs, that is where I am. I was given free advice. . target mediocre law firms with large classes. Guess what, hard to locate a “mediocre law firm list.” Given my somewhat above B, do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

first of all, GPA isn't that tough to figure out. your school presumably has a grade point scale, so sum(grade point * class units) / total class units = GPA.

second, this question is way too broad. what kind of work do you want to do? where do you want to live?

[itbdvorm]

When we bid on firms at OCI, do you see what number we bid you at?

When we upload documents, can you see the actual titles we gave those documents (wondering that because sometimes I just make titles like "SC Cover letter" or "Trans")?

And what do you think is a good length for a cover email during mass mailing? Without being too annoying or too generic.

Not to my knowledge, "sometimes" (at OCI I just get a binder, but recruiting sometimes emails me stuff - they may have it), about a paragraph or two

[itbdvorm]

What sort of dividends, if any, do you think transferring would pay further down the road? I gather from what you've said so far that the short term benefits are somewhat marginal, as a firm is just going to look at your 1L performance (this doesn't account for the oft cited "initiative" plus that I see mentioned around here.)

Have you detected any variations in treatment toward people with a T6 degree vs. someone with a T15-25 or T50?

Later on in your career, maybe. People do react a certain way to degrees from certain institutions. But these are all issues of first impression. No one continues to think an incompetent person who went to Harvard is competent because he went to Harvard (and vice versa for a TTT).

I personally give zero credit for the "initiative" boost (though others may view it differently). And probably looks better on our website.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered.. but generally how responsive are you to students (Im assuming who are currently at the law school you attended) who cold e-mail you during the summer before OCI? If responsive at all, what is the approach or email subject that you end to react better toward?

For reference.. I am at HLS, applying to a Non-NYC market that has a ton of HLS alumni and currently working in said market.

[TheZoid]

Thanks for taking questions itb. What are your thoughts on starting out in a secondary or tertiary market biglaw firm vs. starting at a highly selective big name firm and then lateralling down after 3-5 years? I've heard some say that it's worth it to start forging relationships from the start at a regional biglaw firm, while others have said that the brand name on your resume/high level of work experience is more valuable, and will open up the possibility of lateralling as a partner to a less prestigious firm. Would the lateralling as a partner option only apply if you're in the same market?

[itbdvorm]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered.. but generally how responsive are you to students (Im assuming who are currently at the law school you attended) who cold e-mail you during the summer before OCI? If responsive at all, what is the approach or email subject that you end to react better toward?

For reference.. I am at HLS, applying to a Non-NYC market that has a ton of HLS alumni and currently working in said market.

Medium-ish...all depends on what you're looking for from me. In all reality I don't know what the point of that would be - a better approach might be to offer to the head of recruiting to meet now since you're in town and very interested.

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for taking questions itb. What are your thoughts on starting out in a secondary or tertiary market biglaw firm vs. starting at a highly selective big name firm and then lateralling down after 3-5 years? I've heard some say that it's worth it to start forging relationships from the start at a regional biglaw firm, while others have said that the brand name on your resume/high level of work experience is more valuable, and will open up the possibility of lateralling as a partner to a less prestigious firm. Would the lateralling as a partner option only apply if you're in the same market?

Neither way's the route I've travelled so can't say for sure. But I personally think you can never make the trade-up. And I also think that you can develop enormous skills in your first few years at a firm like mine.

So the question comes, when it's partnership time, who will have the advantage - the more talented attorney or the one with better local relationships? And the answer of course is...it depends on how much better on both fronts.

[TheZoid]

Thanks for taking questions itb. What are your thoughts on starting out in a secondary or tertiary market biglaw firm vs. starting at a highly selective big name firm and then lateralling down after 3-5 years? I've heard some say that it's worth it to start forging relationships from the start at a regional biglaw firm, while others have said that the brand name on your resume/high level of work experience is more valuable, and will open up the possibility of lateralling as a partner to a less prestigious firm. Would the lateralling as a partner option only apply if you're in the same market?

Neither way's the route I've travelled so can't say for sure. But I personally think you can never make the trade-up. And I also think that you can develop enormous skills in your first few years at a firm like mine.

So the question comes, when it's partnership time, who will have the advantage - the more talented attorney or the one with better local relationships? And the answer of course is...it depends on how much better on both fronts.

Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the response.

[Anonymous User]

What sort of dividends, if any, do you think transferring would pay further down the road? I gather from what you've said so far that the short term benefits are somewhat marginal, as a firm is just going to look at your 1L performance (this doesn't account for the oft cited "initiative" plus that I see mentioned around here.)

Have you detected any variations in treatment toward people with a T6 degree vs. someone with a T15-25 or T50?

Later on in your career, maybe. People do react a certain way to degrees from certain institutions. But these are all issues of first impression. No one continues to think an incompetent person who went to Harvard is competent because he went to Harvard (and vice versa for a TTT).

I personally give zero credit for the "initiative" boost (though others may view it differently). And probably looks better on our website.

What is better for long-term employment prospects 1) law review and top 5% grades from a top 20 school that places well in the region I'd like to work, or 2) HLS as a transfer? HLS may be cheaper than my current school, given need-based aid.

[itbdvorm]

What sort of dividends, if any, do you think transferring would pay further down the road? I gather from what you've said so far that the short term benefits are somewhat marginal, as a firm is just going to look at your 1L performance (this doesn't account for the oft cited "initiative" plus that I see mentioned around here.)

Have you detected any variations in treatment toward people with a T6 degree vs. someone with a T15-25 or T50?

Later on in your career, maybe. People do react a certain way to degrees from certain institutions. But these are all issues of first impression. No one continues to think an incompetent person who went to Harvard is competent because he went to Harvard (and vice versa for a TTT).

I personally give zero credit for the "initiative" boost (though others may view it differently). And probably looks better on our website.

What is better for long-term employment prospects 1) law review and top 5% grades from a top 20 school that places well in the region I'd like to work, or 2) HLS as a transfer? HLS may be cheaper than my current school, given need-based aid.

Who knows. Not so clear cut that you should push one or the other. Neither will hold you back.

[Anonymous User]

My T14 does not provide a GPA so I have to figure it out. 1L slightly above a B. Meaning that whatever 2B+ and 2A- can do to lift 4Bs, that is where I am. I was given free advice. . target mediocre law firms with large classes. Guess what, hard to locate a “mediocre law firm list.” Given my somewhat above B, do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

first of all, GPA isn't that tough to figure out. your school presumably has a grade point scale, so sum(grade point * class units) / total class units = GPA.

second, this question is way too broad. what kind of work do you want to do? where do you want to live?

NYC or Philly― since I thought I read you mainly deal with the NYC (possibly Philly is in your zone). If my grades were averaging A’s I would have pursued Latham, most likely M&A, real estate, workouts or communications. Instead I am on to Plan B. IYO, what firms might that include? Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

My T14 does not provide a GPA so I have to figure it out. 1L slightly above a B. Meaning that whatever 2B+ and 2A- can do to lift 4Bs, that is where I am. I was given free advice. . target mediocre law firms with large classes. Guess what, hard to locate a “mediocre law firm list.” Given my somewhat above B, do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

first of all, GPA isn't that tough to figure out. your school presumably has a grade point scale, so sum(grade point * class units) / total class units = GPA.

second, this question is way too broad. what kind of work do you want to do? where do you want to live?

NYC or Philly― since I thought I read you mainly deal with the NYC (possibly Philly is in your zone). If my grades were averaging A’s I would have pursued Latham, most likely M&A, real estate, workouts or communications. Instead I am on to Plan B. IYO, what firms might that include? Thanks.

[itbdvorm]

My T14 does not provide a GPA so I have to figure it out. 1L slightly above a B. Meaning that whatever 2B+ and 2A- can do to lift 4Bs, that is where I am. I was given free advice. . target mediocre law firms with large classes. Guess what, hard to locate a “mediocre law firm list.” Given my somewhat above B, do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

first of all, GPA isn't that tough to figure out. your school presumably has a grade point scale, so sum(grade point * class units) / total class units = GPA.

second, this question is way too broad. what kind of work do you want to do? where do you want to live?

NYC or Philly― since I thought I read you mainly deal with the NYC (possibly Philly is in your zone). If my grades were averaging A’s I would have pursued Latham, most likely M&A, real estate, workouts or communications. Instead I am on to Plan B. IYO, what firms might that include? Thanks.

I mean...I have no idea. T14 is many things. Mediocre grades at one school are equivalent to good grades from others. Talk to 2Ls/3Ls, talk to career services. Get more specific about what you're interested in so you can be more targeted towards firms and convince them they want to hire you into their superstar group. Good luck

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure this was answered last year during OCI season but I can't find it in the thread. I'm a rising 3L (T30, Top 20%) and currently working at a mid/big law firm at a satellite office in a smaller city. I do not want to start my career in this city. Do you have any advice for using this position as leverage? How should I be contacting firms for interviews? This is old news, but finding a firm job as a 3L has been like finding a needle in a haystack and I appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

[itbdvorm]

I'm sure this was answered last year during OCI season but I can't find it in the thread. I'm a rising 3L (T30, Top 20%) and currently working at a mid/big law firm at a satellite office in a smaller city. I do not want to start my career in this city. Do you have any advice for using this position as leverage? How should I be contacting firms for interviews? This is old news, but finding a firm job as a 3L has been like finding a needle in a haystack and I appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

Your best bet - by far - is to do an amazing job during your summer and towards the end of the summer suggest to recruiting that you would like to move to [name of other city that firm has office in] if possible due to [plausible reason].

Otherwise...no idea. I don't know how receptive we'll be to 3Ls but I doubt it'll be much, assuming similar from our peers. If you're truly looking to move, 2-3 years down the line you may have a better shot.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for taking our questions!

Can 1-2 years off between UG and Law School doing nothing important (travelling, volunteering, bartending) be seriously damaging to an otherwise qualified candidate?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for all your help.
So some say that UG prestige can provide a boost in biglaw hiring. Understood. On the flip side, if asked "what is a time you overcame adversity" would it be unwise to talk about working full time to pay your way through Community College? Would the positive effects of the narrative be mitigated by the negative effects of the community college brand? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

How many people just can't handle the hours and noticeably show it early on?

[PlessFightsFire]

You said you work from 9-8. Is there flexibility in terms of when you can work? Would a 730-630 be possible or is that really practice group dependent?

[itbdvorm]

Thank you for taking our questions!

Can 1-2 years off between UG and Law School doing nothing important (travelling, volunteering, bartending) be seriously damaging to an otherwise qualified candidate?

Nah, not really. Not a huge deal.

[itbdvorm]

Thank you for all your help.
So some say that UG prestige can provide a boost in biglaw hiring. Understood. On the flip side, if asked "what is a time you overcame adversity" would it be unwise to talk about working full time to pay your way through Community College? Would the positive effects of the narrative be mitigated by the negative effects of the community college brand? Thanks

Be you. If that's who you are and that's how you got to where you are, that's your story. If that's where you came from and now your grades are good enough it's certainly a nice story.

[itbdvorm]

How many people just can't handle the hours and noticeably show it early on?

Not really sure. People do just disappear but it's rare.

[itbdvorm]

You said you work from 9-8. Is there flexibility in terms of when you can work? Would a 730-630 be possible or is that really practice group dependent?

It's everything dependant. I said that? It's sometimes true and often not. That might be an average but things are rarely average.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking questions itb. What are your thoughts on starting out in a secondary or tertiary market biglaw firm vs. starting at a highly selective big name firm and then lateralling down after 3-5 years? I've heard some say that it's worth it to start forging relationships from the start at a regional biglaw firm, while others have said that the brand name on your resume/high level of work experience is more valuable, and will open up the possibility of lateralling as a partner to a less prestigious firm. Would the lateralling as a partner option only apply if you're in the same market?

Neither way's the route I've travelled so can't say for sure. But I personally think you can never make the trade-up. And I also think that you can develop enormous skills in your first few years at a firm like mine.

So the question comes, when it's partnership time, who will have the advantage - the more talented attorney or the one with better local relationships? And the answer of course is...it depends on how much better on both fronts.

So big firms result in more talented attorneys? Also, I thought that at big firms you end up with good training and then not as much responsibility as in a smaller firm, because the partners do the interesting work and associates do doc review. Is that not true?

[ruski]

how typical is it for lawyers to take a leave of absence for a year and then return. i know it's done for clerkships, but what about just to do public interest or something for a year, and then return. assuming you've already worked at the firm for 2-3 years and proved youre a competent associate. would this be impossible?