The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[BlueLotus]

BYU Job Bank Login (current as of 8/19/14)
User Name: jobfind
Password: jobscougar

Anyone have an update on the username and password?


Also, back in the Vale.

I think the password is now "byujobs."

[TheFutureLawyer]

x

[shredderrrrrr]

3L in the midst of finals. Managed to score an interview at my dream firm (think small-mid-sized boutique type firm) thanks in part to the recommendation of a judge I externed for. Interview went well and they called me back to "meet the rest of the partners" the following week, at 4pm on a Friday.

I also talked to one of the partners on the phone right after the first interview and he had positive things to say, told me there were actually two openings and asked which I would be more interested in.

What should I expect out of this? I have no idea if they're treating this as a "callback" style interview or what; the first one was already with 5 of the firm's partners.

I NEED to get this job.

Anonymous because I'm giving out a lot of details in this post.

Same anon here, still waiting to hear back from these folks (interview went well, but they operate on a consensus system so they have to hold a meeting with all the partners to make the final decision). Almost all the partners seemed to love me, but I think one of them may be questionable. I should hear back any day now. Going nuts waiting. This is definitely my last chance at graduating with a job; nothing else even on the horizon at this point.

Same position here. Good luck!

[Same person as before] Curious -- Area of practice?

IP. But even worse (for me), non-patent IP. What about you?

[Anonymous User]

IP. But even worse (for me), non-patent IP. What about you?

Labor. I have a friend that does non-patent IP at the associate level, and it sounds like a really fun (though competitive) field. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what is involved in a Site Acquisition job (seemingly involving phone towers and whatnot)? As in, what do they do day-to-day and/or what compensation looks like? Also, whether it is like a sales-type job (e.g. have to go door to door asking whether someone's land is available)?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

just to top off my stress....i just realized i missed the ny bar exam application. not that i have a job anywhere but i figured that was my best hope. so now i am graduating with no job and even fewer prospects. how does applying for jobs even work once you are committed to one state? i have been trying to keep my options open but now i see that the bar app deadlines have passed for all of the jobs i have been applying to. just great.

[shredderrrrrr]

just to top off my stress....i just realized i missed the ny bar exam application. not that i have a job anywhere but i figured that was my best hope. so now i am graduating with no job and even fewer prospects. how does applying for jobs even work once you are committed to one state? i have been trying to keep my options open but now i see that the bar app deadlines have passed for all of the jobs i have been applying to. just great.

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

And sorry to hear anon. But look on the bright side--maybe it will just be money saved if you don't end up working in NY.

[BVest]

I can tell you my experience as a former employer in charge of hiring (not of attorneys, but I did have to lead the search for a new CEO for our small organization that required a board hiring committee), and my SO's experience looking for jobs in a new market we were moving to. The lessons from both are, if possible, search from within the market you're trying to land.

From the hiring side, an out of town resume was viewed skeptically, and and out of state resume even more so. If you were from out of state and failed to convincingly articulate some fairly strong ties to the city the job was in, as well as some outstanding qualifications, you were simply not getting an interview. The job didn't require licensure. It did require familiarity with state politics and state law in one particular area, but that could be learned on the job. That's not to say that we wouldn't consider you... we did skype interview one of the out-of-staters and she ended up among our top 3, but our top choice, who was local (indeed, even worked in the same building) accepted our offer.

From my SO's perspective, we were moving to a new city within the state, and she started applying for jobs before the move. The fact of, date of, and reason for our move were clearly explained in her cover letter, yet she got zero nibbles until we took possession of our house in the new city and changed her address on job applications to the local one. At that point she started getting interviews. It still took a few months after that to land a job (this is the legal market, after all), but prior to having a local address there was no interest whatsoever.

[TheFutureLawyer]

x

[rouser]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

[sp1kedrat]

for mass mailings, should they be sent to the generic recruiting email address listed on the website (that isn't linked to a specific person) or to the managing partner? Would it be too ballsy to go for the managing partner?

[Holly Golightly]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

I don't think this is true. I know people at biglaw firms that have put off getting admitted for a long time because it didn't matter if they were or not. And I've been at my job since August and took the February bar.

[JenDarby]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

I don't think this is true. I know people at biglaw firms that have put off getting admitted for a long time because it didn't matter if they were or not. And I've been at my job since August and took the February bar.

Yep. A few of my transactional NYC biglaw friends either just got admitted or have not yet been admitted (due to submitting apps very late). I'm in-house, but still not admitted because I just haven't submitted my app yet.

[BlueLotus]

Just logged onto Nelnet and my heart stopped. I don't know how I'll ever pay off these loans.

[trbrny]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

I don't think this is true. I know people at biglaw firms that have put off getting admitted for a long time because it didn't matter if they were or not. And I've been at my job since August and took the February bar.

In my firm (and I think this is typical of biglaw) associates are given one year to take, pass and be admitted to the bar or you lose your job. You work as a law clerk until you are admitted and no-one seems to really care unless you pass the one year mark.

[El Pollito]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

I don't think this is true. I know people at biglaw firms that have put off getting admitted for a long time because it didn't matter if they were or not. And I've been at my job since August and took the February bar.

In my firm (and I think this is typical of biglaw) associates are given one year to take, pass and be admitted to the bar or you lose your job. You work as a law clerk until you are admitted and no-one seems to really care unless you pass the one year mark.

it really depends on the firm. some biglaw firms really want you to get admitted as quickly as possible so they can charge more for you, some don't care (sometimes because they don't have billing different rates for law clerks).

[shredderrrrrr]

I'm interested in this too. I'm committed to taking the bar in my home state but in the (likely) chance I don't get a job here, how the hell do I go about applying in different states? Do I just tell them I'm not licensed in the state and wouldn't be able to start until I was able to take said state's bar?

Depends on job -- I think some compliance/contract/in-house/doc review jobs take advantage of the 'under supervision of an attorney' rule where you can work in a different state w/o bar admission. Actual law firms will not take that risk though.

I don't think this is true. I know people at biglaw firms that have put off getting admitted for a long time because it didn't matter if they were or not. And I've been at my job since August and took the February bar.

In my firm (and I think this is typical of biglaw) associates are given one year to take, pass and be admitted to the bar or you lose your job. You work as a law clerk until you are admitted and no-one seems to really care unless you pass the one year mark.

Thanks for this (as well as every other) response! It seems to vary by locale, firm, and position. Just glad to know there's hope (however sleight) looking in jurisdictions where you haven't taken the bar.

[coldshoulder]

Exams are over, and I suppose I'm officially a member of the vale. T50 school, top 40%, gunned public interest/criminal law hard.
-Over a year as a law clerk at the local district attorney's office (mid-sized city, biggest in state), which isn't hiring from clerks for new attorneys (but luckily will keep me on part-time for a year so I can at least pay the rent).
-Spent a year with the school's criminal clinic at the same DA's office, tried over 15 bench trials and a jury trial in district court.
-National trial advocacy team
-Clinics at local legal services and guardian ad litem office.
-School's Pro Bono Fellow 3L year, student director for a pro bono clinic, over 200 hours of pro bono work.

I want to work in public interest or gov. crim law. Employers say to apply when I'm admitted to the bar, and won't acccept applications until then (Oct). Do I just hope that I get lucky and those entry-level prosecutor/defense jobs open within a few months of being admitted? I just hate to have to think I can't even apply to anything for at least 6 months.

[frid3v]

I could use some advice. I graduated last year and have been working for a state agency doing investigative work during that time. I recently passed the bar and badly want to start working as an attorney.

There is a commissioner of our agency who has his own law firm and we've been meeting for lunch or coffee once a month since last September or October. Every time we've met since January I have told him that I would love to work for him at his firm. He's expressed interest and genuinely seems to want to hire me. But he does and says everything short of saying "you're hired." We met last week for lunch and it ended up feeling like an interview because he asked me the typical 3 strengths 3 weaknesses question and whether I preferred litigation or transactional, etc. He said that he's looking to expand his office in mid-June and that we would have a more serious conversation in july-august. We've already talked about salary range and he's shown me his current office and where he is planning to move the new offices.

I think he's sincere but I honestly don't know if I can wait till August to begin. Especially when my friends and girlfriend are practicing and I'm so envious. Plus I don't want to get strung along and miss opportunities. I really don't know if I should be applying or I should just wait or see if he could hire me earlier. Anyone have any advice?

[drs36]

My advice is to keep looking and applying. If something hits, go to commissioner/partner and tell him you have another opportunity, that you'd like to work for him, but need to land a job as an attorney. The other job might push his decision along more quickly and you'll likely know one way or the other if he plans on bringing you into his firm.

[Other25BeforeYou]

My advice is to keep looking and applying. If something hits, go to commissioner/partner and tell him you have another opportunity, that you'd like to work for him, but need to land a job as an attorney. The other job might push his decision along more quickly and you'll likely know one way or the other if he plans on bringing you into his firm.

Agree. If you don't apply elsewhere and he doesn't have room for you in August or brings someone else on instead of you, it won't be good.

[frid3v]

My advice is to keep looking and applying. If something hits, go to commissioner/partner and tell him you have another opportunity, that you'd like to work for him, but need to land a job as an attorney. The other job might push his decision along more quickly and you'll likely know one way or the other if he plans on bringing you into his firm.

Agree. If you don't apply elsewhere and he doesn't have room for you in August or brings someone else on instead of you, it won't be good.

Thanks to you both. That's really good advice. It would be foolish of me to just put all my eggs into this one basket when it's not certain yet and likely won't be until Fall. Well, back to the grind of sending out a ton of resumes lol. Fun life

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the process of applying for fellowship sponsors. Once I lock down a sponsor, should I disclose that I expect a delay in getting barred due to C&F? (disciplined in law school for bipolar disorder)

[sd5289]

I want to work in public interest or gov. crim law. Employers say to apply when I'm admitted to the bar, and won't acccept applications until then (Oct). Do I just hope that I get lucky and those entry-level prosecutor/defense jobs open within a few months of being admitted? I just hate to have to think I can't even apply to anything for at least 6 months.

Think this definitely depends on your market. There are only a few cities where the DA's offices (at least, I don't know about PD) hire directly out of law school, so in the cities where they don't, I'd assume they have their respective entry-level timelines after people take the bar. Unless, of course, they're an office that only hires when there are vacancies and not on a regular basis like some of the bigger offices. A lot of the answers should come from the hiring info on their websites, including the deadline for applications and what you need in order to submit an application.

Good luck!

[The game is flawed]

Guess it's time to join the vale.
T14, around top 40%, struck out, and I'll be netting the same amount this summer as at least 70%-80% of my classmates will make in a week. Strange feeling.
But on the bright side, 3L has to be an improvement.