2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

Let's all say what we have really been thinking. We love our work and would do it for free if we could!

[TheoO]

FWIW, the lack of midlevels and seniors in the aftermath of the great layoff wave of 2009 impacted the market for years after. If we are seeing a great resignation now by these midlevels, this would seem to stay for a while.

[enibs]

No offense but you are speaking total gibberish. The size of law school apps in 2021 has nothing to do with burnt out midlevels and seniors exiting after billing 2,500 hours for two years in a row through WFH COVID. You seem to want to suggest some contraorthodox explanation for what's going on when plenty of us who have access to actual numbers are telling you that, no, it's exactly what we're saying, attrition is at an unprecedented level and it's fucking up staffing and ability to bring in cases. Give it a rest.

No offense taken, Anonymous User. Sorry to get you riled up. Law school applications generally reflect the perceived attractiveness of law practice. I recognize that there may be a gap between perception and reality. And perhaps the sellers’ market we’ve seen in 2021 will continue into 2022. But I think it’s fair to say it won’t continue forever. I’m also curious, if there is in fact an exodus out of the profession, where those exiting are going. I doubt that many are finding more lucrative jobs. Biglaw, despite the complaints about compensation in this thread, does pay more than most jobs available to people in their 20s and 30s. Are those exiting just opting to take less money due to the burnout? Genuinely curious.

[ExpOriental]

No offense but you are speaking total gibberish. The size of law school apps in 2021 has nothing to do with burnt out midlevels and seniors exiting after billing 2,500 hours for two years in a row through WFH COVID. You seem to want to suggest some contraorthodox explanation for what's going on when plenty of us who have access to actual numbers are telling you that, no, it's exactly what we're saying, attrition is at an unprecedented level and it's fucking up staffing and ability to bring in cases. Give it a rest.

No offense taken, Anonymous User. Sorry to get you riled up. Law school applications generally reflect the perceived attractiveness of law practice. I recognize that there may be a gap between perception and reality. And perhaps the sellers’ market we’ve seen in 2021 will continue into 2022. But I think it’s fair to say it won’t continue forever. I’m also curious, if there is in fact an exodus out of the profession, where those exiting are going. I doubt that many are finding more lucrative jobs. Biglaw, despite the complaints about compensation in this thread, does pay more than most jobs available to people in their 20s and 30s. Are those exiting just opting to take less money due to the burnout? Genuinely curious.

Just want to chime in and confirm that the anon is correct; your argument makes no sense. The attitude of law school applicants is not even remotely representative of current biglaw midlevels. The gap is not between "perception and reality," it's between two entirely different groups of people.

No shit people aren't generally finding more lucrative jobs. That's not what they're looking for - they're looking for some semblance of work-life balance. Is the concept of going in house really that foreign to you?

I'm struggling to understand how this isn't all readily apparent. It's basically repeated ad nauseam in every thread even tangentially related to this topic, for starters.

[LittleRedCorvette]

No offense but you are speaking total gibberish. The size of law school apps in 2021 has nothing to do with burnt out midlevels and seniors exiting after billing 2,500 hours for two years in a row through WFH COVID. You seem to want to suggest some contraorthodox explanation for what's going on when plenty of us who have access to actual numbers are telling you that, no, it's exactly what we're saying, attrition is at an unprecedented level and it's fucking up staffing and ability to bring in cases. Give it a rest.

No offense taken, Anonymous User. Sorry to get you riled up. Law school applications generally reflect the perceived attractiveness of law practice. I recognize that there may be a gap between perception and reality. And perhaps the sellers’ market we’ve seen in 2021 will continue into 2022. But I think it’s fair to say it won’t continue forever. I’m also curious, if there is in fact an exodus out of the profession, where those exiting are going. I doubt that many are finding more lucrative jobs. Biglaw, despite the complaints about compensation in this thread, does pay more than most jobs available to people in their 20s and 30s. Are those exiting just opting to take less money due to the burnout? Genuinely curious.

Are you even a lawyer?

[enibs]

No offense but you are speaking total gibberish. The size of law school apps in 2021 has nothing to do with burnt out midlevels and seniors exiting after billing 2,500 hours for two years in a row through WFH COVID. You seem to want to suggest some contraorthodox explanation for what's going on when plenty of us who have access to actual numbers are telling you that, no, it's exactly what we're saying, attrition is at an unprecedented level and it's fucking up staffing and ability to bring in cases. Give it a rest.

No offense taken, Anonymous User. Sorry to get you riled up. Law school applications generally reflect the perceived attractiveness of law practice. I recognize that there may be a gap between perception and reality. And perhaps the sellers’ market we’ve seen in 2021 will continue into 2022. But I think it’s fair to say it won’t continue forever. I’m also curious, if there is in fact an exodus out of the profession, where those exiting are going. I doubt that many are finding more lucrative jobs. Biglaw, despite the complaints about compensation in this thread, does pay more than most jobs available to people in their 20s and 30s. Are those exiting just opting to take less money due to the burnout? Genuinely curious.

Just want to chime in and confirm that the anon is correct; your argument makes no sense. The attitude of law school applicants is not even remotely representative of current biglaw midlevels. The gap is not between "perception and reality," it's between two entirely different groups of people.

No shit people aren't generally finding more lucrative jobs. That's not what they're looking for - they're looking for some semblance of work-life balance. Is the concept of going in house really that foreign to you?

I'm struggling to understand how this isn't all readily apparent. It's basically repeated ad nauseam in every thread even tangentially related to this topic, for starters.

Thanks ExpOriental for not being an Anonymous User. The concept of going in house is really not foreign to me at all. That’s been happening for decades. It won’t fundamentally alter the supply/demand equation over time. I was reacting more to the assertion that a large proportion of biglaw associates were leaving the legal profession altogether, which could alter the supply/demand equation. I have no idea whether this assertion is true. Do you? And I do think there’s an inconsistency between the notion that an unusually large number of lawyers are fleeing the legal profession at the same time as an unusually large number of students are seeking to enter the legal profession (the latter being statistically documented). At a minimum, it suggests that any short-term supply deficit, if in fact there is one, will eventually be eliminated.

[Barrred]

Thanks ExpOriental for not being an Anonymous User. The concept of going in house is really not foreign to me at all. That’s been happening for decades. It won’t fundamentally alter the supply/demand equation over time. I was reacting more to the assertion that a large proportion of biglaw associates were leaving the legal profession altogether, which could alter the supply/demand equation. I have no idea whether this assertion is true. Do you? And I do think there’s an inconsistency between the notion that an unusually large number of lawyers are fleeing the legal profession at the same time as an unusually large number of students are seeking to enter the legal profession (the latter being statistically documented). At a minimum, it suggests that any short-term supply deficit, if in fact there is one, will eventually be eliminated.

Lol. If you consider the 8 to 9 years that it will take for 0Ls to become mid-levels "short-term."

People need to stop arguing with this (probably) law student about mid-level/senior associate biglaw dynamics he clearly knows nothing about.

[clone22]

Let's all say what we have really been thinking. We love our work and would do it for free if we could!

I want to boost this person for posting the truth!

NYC to zero!

No, but seriously, I had calls until about 10 minutes ago. Bunch of really rich persons (corporations are "persons" too!) arguing over what is a lot of money for us plebs but not for the actual corps and/or persons who stand to make many many $. Wtf is this? Is this what preftigious law schools prep us for?

As a senior, the damn bonus scale better move up. Otherwise I'm migrating to a fully remote in-house gig and moving to the middle of nowhere, so I can live like a royal person and actually spend some time living life. Last decade went by way too fast, and I can only remember a handful of memorable events/milestones in my life. Which is kind of depressing and/or distressing.

[Anonymous User]

As others are stating, end year bonuses in part are to stop people from going in-house. As someone in v10 corp,these don't really do that and this isn't really a normal in-house attrition scenario.

People at the 3rd-5th year have never been getting so many targeted in house opportunities; people I know leaving at that level are commonly getting all-in comp of 350-500k. Some people are getting raises.

From what everyone tells me, this kind of comp difference between midlevel to in-house historically didn't exist (a difference where going in house can be a raise) in any kind of meaningful widespread way. These bonuses have made us all unhappy. Do we have another 4-7 years of shooting for an unlikely partnership when going in house is a salary raise? Most of us don't and this low number has stirred up a lot of people to mention they've started applying for in house. Huge miss by Cravath and the matching firms.

[Right2BearArms]

Let's all say what we have really been thinking. We love our work and would do it for free if we could!

I want to boost this person for posting the truth!

NYC to zero!

No, but seriously, I had calls until about 10 minutes ago. Bunch of really rich persons (corporations are "persons" too!) arguing over what is a lot of money for us plebs but not for the actual corps and/or persons who stand to make many many $. Wtf is this? Is this what preftigious law schools prep us for?

As a senior, the damn bonus scale better move up. Otherwise I'm migrating to a fully remote in-house gig and moving to the middle of nowhere, so I can live like a royal person and actually spend some time living life. Last decade went by way too fast, and I can only remember a handful of memorable events/milestones in my life. Which is kind of depressing and/or distressing.

Time is a flat circle, my friend (been re-running the first season of True Detective in the background as I work to sign a deal at 1 am on Thanksgiving Eve).

All kidding aside, the discontent is real for many in Biglaw over the last 2 years. I have discovered that the money really doesn't motivate me (was on "vacation" when the second "special bonus" hit my account in October - and by vacation I mean I only billed ~20 hours in a week from a hotel desk between day trips and all too expensive benders at the hotel bar). The current bonus scale is the same. It is nice, and I wont give one red cent back, but I also wont keep sacrificing material portions of my life to secure it.

[Anonymous User]

As others are stating, end year bonuses in part are to stop people from going in-house. As someone in v10 corp,these don't really do that and this isn't really a normal in-house attrition scenario.

People at the 3rd-5th year have never been getting so many targeted in house opportunities; people I know leaving at that level are commonly getting all-in comp of 350-500k. Some people are getting raises.

From what everyone tells me, this kind of comp difference between midlevel to in-house historically didn't exist (a difference where going in house can be a raise) in any kind of meaningful widespread way. These bonuses have made us all unhappy. Do we have another 4-7 years of shooting for an unlikely partnership when going in house is a salary raise? Most of us don't and this low number has stirred up a lot of people to mention they've started applying for in house. Huge miss by Cravath and the matching firms.

Curious what group this is and what sort of exit? Have not heard of this from Cap Markets.

[Anonymous User]

Wow there is alot of crying in the thread.

That’s what I’m going to say in Jan when partners are all bummed that everyone quit.

+1. A ton of mid/senior level associates will have been able to pay off their debt/build up a nest egg much faster than anticipated given the special bonuses this past year. Those same people have had record-high attrition among peers and record-high hours this past year and have seen their firms post record-high profits over the same period. They are ready to leave. If firms are willing to pay another firmwide special bonus in early- or mid-2022 then they need to announce it NOW. If not, those same folks are going to take their money, start their in-house interviews NOW knowing that nothing is on the horizon, and be fully prepared to l e a v e once the EOY bonus hits their accounts.

Just a bit curious on this, as it is really the extra money that will make people stay? I mean, if you're a midlevel, aren't you supposed to already have paid off your debt/have a nest egg. I'm a fourth year and paid off my student debt and have about $100k in investments. I'm staying until I am getting burnt out, whether they pay me a higher bonus or not.

But maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't think paying off debt/building a nest egg is what people are going for.

[Anonymous User]

Let's all say what we have really been thinking. We love our work and would do it for free if we could!

I want to boost this person for posting the truth!

NYC to zero!

No, but seriously, I had calls until about 10 minutes ago. Bunch of really rich persons (corporations are "persons" too!) arguing over what is a lot of money for us plebs but not for the actual corps and/or persons who stand to make many many $. Wtf is this? Is this what preftigious law schools prep us for?

As a senior, the damn bonus scale better move up. Otherwise I'm migrating to a fully remote in-house gig and moving to the middle of nowhere, so I can live like a royal person and actually spend some time living life. Last decade went by way too fast, and I can only remember a handful of memorable events/milestones in my life. Which is kind of depressing and/or distressing.

I don't get this logic. A complaint about how life has gone too fast, you're missing out, etc. But pay me a bit more and that is all fine! I've understood why partners are still in Big Law: they sincerely love it. They'd rather be closing a deal than have dinner with their family or going on vacation.

But for the rest of us? What will you do with the extra money that makes it worth doing a job you clearly dislike? You've probably already made more money than 99% of people will make in their lifetime.

[thisismytlsuername]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

[forward]

Can we get back to shitposting about cravattth plz

[Anonymous User]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

Lol. Bitter over six figure bonuses for over a decade.

[Anonymous User]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

It's precisely this kind of mentality that keeps places like CravaTTTh staffed with lawyers

[ConfusedNYer]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

You know that big law firms increased their salary scale + bonuses from 2006 to 2007, right? By like a lot - first year all in comp went from $175 -> $205.

Where as all in total comp (excluding special bonuses) has only increased from $205 to $225 a 50% smaller increase (not factoring in inflation).

The fact that a historic recession then disrupted this trend a few years later does not seem super relevant to the point being made here. Firms clearly saw the need to increase comp by a lot to retain talent in 06-07 (at a time when PPL was way lower, so the increase was taking a bigger bite out of partner's pockets.

Also HOLY FUCK mid-aughts comp was good. IT took over a decade for first year associate comp to hit $205 again. No wonder partners who "came of age" during that period have a warped view of things.

[thisismytlsuername]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

You know that big law firms increased their salary scale + bonuses from 2006 to 2007, right? By like a lot - first year all in comp went from $175 -> $205.

Where as all in total comp (excluding special bonuses) has only increased from $205 to $225 a 50% smaller increase (not factoring in inflation).

The fact that a historic recession then disrupted this trend a few years later does not seem super relevant to the point being made here. Firms clearly saw the need to increase comp by a lot to retain talent in 06-07 (at a time when PPL was way lower, so the increase was taking a bigger bite out of partner's pockets.

Also HOLY FUCK mid-aughts comp was good. IT took over a decade for first year associate comp to hit $205 again. No wonder partners who "came of age" during that period have a warped view of things.

Nothing you said is super relevant to my point. My point is that nothing that anyone is complaining about in this thread is new, associates are historically well compensated at the moment, the idea that 8,000 associates will go in house in January if someone doesn't bump up the scale is laughable, and taking home an extra $30k this year won't make any of this worth it.

[Anonymous User]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

How sad. A career associate who has drunk the Kool Aid.

0Ls: this is where you never want to end up. Don’t be this person.

[TheoO]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

You know that big law firms increased their salary scale + bonuses from 2006 to 2007, right? By like a lot - first year all in comp went from $175 -> $205.

Where as all in total comp (excluding special bonuses) has only increased from $205 to $225 a 50% smaller increase (not factoring in inflation).

The fact that a historic recession then disrupted this trend a few years later does not seem super relevant to the point being made here. Firms clearly saw the need to increase comp by a lot to retain talent in 06-07 (at a time when PPL was way lower, so the increase was taking a bigger bite out of partner's pockets.

Also HOLY FUCK mid-aughts comp was good. IT took over a decade for first year associate comp to hit $205 again. No wonder partners who "came of age" during that period have a warped view of things.

Nothing you said is super relevant to my point. My point is that nothing that anyone is complaining about in this thread is new, associates are historically well compensated at the moment, the idea that 8,000 associates will go in house in January if someone doesn't bump up the scale is laughable, and taking home an extra $30k this year won't make any of this worth it.

You're speaking as if going in-house is the only option. Many of my friends that are considering moves are looking either at different/local markets (many for instance have recently started looking at Denver spots) or looking at smaller firms (some V5 friends thinking of leaving for a V90/non-V100) for better QOL.

[Winter is Coming]

It's always weird to me when posters which what seem like incredibly long posting histories here (at least judging from their account creation date) seem to be oblivious to the reality of what is going on right now. I don't know maybe they started posting in high school and are still juniors. But even that wouldn't make sense because if you they were a junior they would realize that...there is no one around?

The mid-level attrition right now is unprecedented (at least in the past two decades). People are very open about that, partners are very open about that. I can't imagine there has ever really been a time where V5 firms literally have to turn down work because of staffing shortages.

Having more law students right now or more first years (which at least at my firm isn't even the case) does absolutely nothing to fix the current problem and at best would make things better in four to five years.

Like this quote is kind of crazy to me:

"And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK.""

I mean have people ever heard that before this year? Unless they are saying that partners lie and use this as a motivation tactic (which could definitely be the case), I would be shocked if that was ever the reality at largest firms. I could see this in the context of managing a first year's expectations that billing 2000 isn't enough when everyone else is billing 2400 but the firm actually turning down work is completely different.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland announced

that Kirkland Concierge is available to wrap your holiday gifts if you’re too busy to do it yourself. For a fee, they’ll even pick them up and deliver them to your house wrapped.

This is the perk we were waiting for!

[Anonymous User]

Ok, the anonymous posters who *gasp* work at V5s and V10s and have *gasp* seen the attrition numbers and they're worse than ever and have been told that *gasp* their firm is TURNING DOWN WORK have convinced me that this time is different than all the other times that has happened.

Here's an article on law firm attrition from 2006 and how it was HIGHER THAN EVER: https://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/lega ... on_in.html. Two years after this article firms (maybe even your fancy V5s and V10s!) went and fired everybody who was left even after the RECORD ATTRITION.

And you're certainly not the first put-upon associates who have been told by partners "We're hearing you, we know everyone is slammed, the firm is even TURNING DOWN WORK."

By all means, take that $500k fully remote 10-4 and no weekends job that all 8,000 of you think you can get on January 1 -- you're a fungible cog in a machine that will keep running without you. I don't care enough to do the math, but I have to imagine that law firm associates are making more on an inflation-adjusted basis than any time in the history of the profession. But yeah, I'm sure that an extra $20k-30k after taxes will make you happy.

Signed, someone who has been doing this shit for over a decade.

You know that big law firms increased their salary scale + bonuses from 2006 to 2007, right? By like a lot - first year all in comp went from $175 -> $205.

Where as all in total comp (excluding special bonuses) has only increased from $205 to $225 a 50% smaller increase (not factoring in inflation).

The fact that a historic recession then disrupted this trend a few years later does not seem super relevant to the point being made here. Firms clearly saw the need to increase comp by a lot to retain talent in 06-07 (at a time when PPL was way lower, so the increase was taking a bigger bite out of partner's pockets.

Also HOLY FUCK mid-aughts comp was good. IT took over a decade for first year associate comp to hit $205 again. No wonder partners who "came of age" during that period have a warped view of things.

Nothing you said is super relevant to my point. My point is that nothing that anyone is complaining about in this thread is new, associates are historically well compensated at the moment, the idea that 8,000 associates will go in house in January if someone doesn't bump up the scale is laughable, and taking home an extra $30k this year won't make any of this worth it.

I don’t think you are listening to what people here are saying. Our complaints are in fact new because the demand on associates (especially mid-levels and seniors) over the past two years has been unprecedented. I’ve lateraled from a v5 to a v10 during Covid and multiple partners at both firms have said this is the busiest they have seen corporate groups in their entire careers (which is longer than the 10 years “you’ve been doing this shit”). The amount of friends and colleagues that I know that have hit 2500 - 3000 hours in the past two years is also staggering. This did not used to happen and I remember when 2300 would make you a relatively high biller. Do you think firms are giving laterals six figure signing bonuses and guaranteed year end bonuses because nothing is out of the ordinary?

On your point on whether an increased bonus will increase retention, well that just depends on the person. Personally, I like to feel appreciated and there is also a thing as increasing morale. If I feel like partners are compensating me fairly based on the record revenue we are bringing in then yeah I’m more likely to stick around a year or two. Also, a lot of people are suggesting firms need to announce retention bonuses, which will likely keep more people around. You keep pointing to 8,000 people going in house. That’s not the point. These groups are so understaffed that 2-3 more mid levels or seniors leaving will actually have significant impact on staffing (mid-levels and seniors are running 4+ M&A deals w/ minimal partner supervision at both firms I’ve been at). I also know of a v10 that lost about half of its group headcount over the course of covid and has not adequately hired laterals. So yes, things are materially different in terms of biglaw demand today and year end bonuses and total compensation matter for retention - a paltry year end increase when some firms have had 40% increases in PPP is not going to help with retention. Firms like Skadden and PW have recognized that and around reportedly paying 6 figure retention/special bonuses to certain associates.

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The straw man is missing the point. It’s not whether 8000 will leave. It’s whether the best (and likely the ones being overworked) will leave.