The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[BlueLotus]

You're not understanding. The jurisdiction where the visiting school is is the jurisdiction where my prospective employers are. I'm trying to highlight my ties to that jurisdiction. "Ties" are paramount in legal hiring, in case you didn't know. It's not lying if I put in parentheses "exchange" or "visitor" because that indicates my status at said school. Like I said, I want absolutely no association with my original school. 2 page resumes are generally not OK except for fellowships.

Is there a reason you can't do this in the cover letter?

That's exactly what I suggested doing.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You're not understanding. The jurisdiction where the visiting school is is the jurisdiction where my prospective employers are. I'm trying to highlight my ties to that jurisdiction. "Ties" are paramount in legal hiring, in case you didn't know. It's not lying if I put in parentheses "exchange" or "visitor" because that indicates my status at said school. Like I said, I want absolutely no association with my original school. 2 page resumes are generally not OK except for fellowships.

Is there a reason you can't do this in the cover letter?

That's exactly what I suggested doing.

I think they mean instead of leaving your original school off your resume.

[anozira]

...

[BlueLotus]

Problem is, I am embarrassed of my original school and want no association with it whatsoever. Think of it like having Cooley on your resume.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Problem is, I am embarrassed of my original school and want no association with it whatsoever. Think of it like having Cooley on your resume.

Just because you hate it doesn't make it like having Cooley on your resume. It's not an embarrassing school and you need to keep your emotions out of it. Besides, someone who goes to Cooley still has to put Cooley on their resume whether it embarrasses them or not.

[BVest]

It's not at all like having Cooley on your resume, which as Mouse points out, is what you would have to do if your degree-granting school were actually Cooley.

Cooley will no doubt reference this thread now as evidence that they're T30.

ETA: This is the strangest debate ever, trying to convince a TLSer that they should cop more preftige than they want to.

[BlueLotus]

It's not at all like having Cooley on your resume, which as Mouse points out, is what you would have to do if your degree-granting school were actually Cooley.

Cooley will no doubt reference this thread now as evidence that they're T30.

ETA: This is the strangest debate ever, trying to convince a TLSer that they should cop more preftige than they want to.

It's not about preftige. There is virtually no difference between a school that is T30 and one that is TT/TTT in terms of employment prospects. They are both regional schools that feed into regional markets.

[anon sequitur]

Hey, can we not make this thread about BlueLotus's anxieties and neurosis? There is 100% agreement that not putting your J.D. granting school on your resume is a bizarre and ineffectual strategy. Try it anyway if you really want. This poster periodically turns about 3-4 threads I read into train wrecks about whatever issue is freaking him/her out, and it'd be nice if that could stop.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, good point, sorry about that.

[shredderrrrrr]

This is the most ridiculous exchange I think I’ve ever seen on this site:

“Hey, can I leave off my degree-granting school off my resume?”

“No.”

“But what if I don’t want it on my resume?”

“Too bad.”

“You don’t understand—I don’t want it on my resume.”

[thewaterlanding]

This is the most ridiculous exchange I think I’ve ever seen on this site:

“Hey, can I leave off my degree-granting school off my resume?”

“No.”

“But what if I don’t want it on my resume?”

“Too bad.”

“You don’t understand—I don’t want it on my resume.”

+1

[meg5096]

This is the most ridiculous exchange I think I’ve ever seen on this site:

“Hey, can I leave off my degree-granting school off my resume?”

“No.”

“But what if I don’t want it on my resume?”

“Too bad.”

“You don’t understand—I don’t want it on my resume.”

+1

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read. I am now embarrassed about my association with TLS. Will leave off my resume.

[sparty99]

Hey, can we not make this thread about BlueLotus's anxieties and neurosis? There is 100% agreement that not putting your J.D. granting school on your resume is a bizarre and ineffectual strategy. Try it anyway if you really want. This poster periodically turns about 3-4 threads I read into train wrecks about whatever issue is freaking him/her out, and it'd be nice if that could stop.

I totally agree. And for the record, I'm pretty sure BlueLotus is a neurotic female.

[Ellen_1224]

I would, at minimum, ask to be called an "associate" even at the reduced pay just so you can get attorney experience on a resume and then flip asap when something better comes up.

Does it honestly matter for job-seeking purposes what your boss calls you as opposed to what you really do? "Associate" is a term of art that means specific status and job duties at a firm. An associate is a licensed attorney who handles legal work for a law firm without having an equity interest in the firm or managerial authority. If you are a licensed attorney and you handle legal work, I don't think it's dishonest to put down on your resume that you are an associate of that firm. It is actually the law firm that is being dishonest. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too by asking you to do associate-type work but paying you at the rate of a law clerk. It's a predatory employment practice meant to keep you at a disadvantage so you won't leave for better pastures. What actually makes your job that of a law clerk though? If Google said it was going to stop calling its programmers "programmers" and instead call them "coffee interns," do you think its employees would give a shit? If they're coding programs all day, they're putting on their resumes that they are programmers, not coffee bussers.

I think you make a very good point. Anyway, I talked to the attorneys in my office, and they all say big "no"! The legal industry does have its unique feature, we do "value" school rank, title and all those tags more than others.

I think I am going to turn down the offer, since it does not pay much more than my law school fellowship stipend, and continue looking.

Thanks you all!

[Anonymous User]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUltheRpJNw

[Mal Reynolds]

How does not having a 1L summer AND 2L summer jerb impact one's Vale experience? Asking for a friend who did nothing, legal or otherwise, for both summers. What should he be doing to best position himself for a FTLT JD required position?

"Friend" is getting less and less likely.

[RCSOB657]

Right. This will be a way to get your resume binned and not get the job. You must include your first school. It doesn't matter how you feel about that school, it will be the institution granting your JD. Therefore, you must include it. Either figure out a way to re-work your resume or just make it 2 pages.

You're not understanding. The jurisdiction where the visiting school is is the jurisdiction where my prospective employers are. I'm trying to highlight my ties to that jurisdiction. "Ties" are paramount in legal hiring, in case you didn't know. It's not lying if I put in parentheses "exchange" or "visitor" because that indicates my status at said school. Like I said, I want absolutely no association with my original school. 2 page resumes are generally not OK except for fellowships.

Dude. This is not a gray-area issue. You're wrong to do this -- presenting yourself at wholly unqualified for a lawyer job at best, and actually lying in order to mislead them at worst.

No, I am going to mention that I have a JD, but just leave off the degree granting school because I want no association with it. How would I present myself as wholly unqualified?

1) If you're trolling, epic work.
2) IF not, GTFO of the legal profession or any profession except maybe creative writing.

I'm editing my illegal post with new data. Please I hope the help you are getting will work for you. Bravo for acknowledging the problem and seeking help.

[BlueLotus]

How does not having a 1L summer AND 2L summer jerb impact one's Vale experience? Asking for a friend who did nothing, legal or otherwise, for both summers. What should he be doing to best position himself for a FTLT JD required position?

"Friend" is getting less and less likely.

Less and less likely to what? Get FTLT legal employment? That's a given considering he's competing against thousands of grads who actually have legal experience. He did get into a prestigious MPP program. Will that help?

[seizmaar]

*audibly groans*

[Mal Reynolds]

How does not having a 1L summer AND 2L summer jerb impact one's Vale experience? Asking for a friend who did nothing, legal or otherwise, for both summers. What should he be doing to best position himself for a FTLT JD required position?

"Friend" is getting less and less likely.

Less and less likely to what? Get FTLT legal employment? That's a given considering he's competing against thousands of grads who actually have legal experience. He did get into a prestigious MPP program. Will that help?

I'm saying the friend is you, given your other weird and irrational responses ITT.

[BlueLotus]

How does not having a 1L summer AND 2L summer jerb impact one's Vale experience? Asking for a friend who did nothing, legal or otherwise, for both summers. What should he be doing to best position himself for a FTLT JD required position?

"Friend" is getting less and less likely.

Less and less likely to what? Get FTLT legal employment? That's a given considering he's competing against thousands of grads who actually have legal experience. He did get into a prestigious MPP program. Will that help?

I'm saying the friend is you, given your other weird and irrational responses ITT.

No, as I have posted elsewhere, I was employed and paid both summers.

[A. Nony Mouse]

As much as I understand the concerns, 0Ls, 1Ls, and 2Ls aren't allowed to post in this thread, so please remove yourselves. And the issue of leaving your degree-granting school off your resume has also been done to death by now, so please leave that alone too.

[Lwoods]

When networking, would it be OK/honest to say to attorneys that I attended the local TT/TTT, not mentioning the original school? (since that's the less-damaging school I prefer to be associated with) I am just so worried that my original school will be a scarlet letter.

It will not be a scarlet letter. My JD is from a decent (but not T14) school far from my desired market. My desired market is highly desirable and pretty insular. I also did a visiting year here at the local TT. There are also two TTTTs in town. My visiting year demonstrated my commitment to the market, but my degree granting school was only a plus (or sometimes neutral) because it's a good school.

Don't omit your degree-granting school.

ETA: For clarity, I did secure a job in this market, doing precisely what I want.

[sd5289]

This is the most ridiculous exchange I think I’ve ever seen on this site:

“Hey, can I leave off my degree-granting school off my resume?”

“No.”

“But what if I don’t want it on my resume?”

“Too bad.”

“You don’t understand—I don’t want it on my resume.”

+1

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read. I am now embarrassed about my association with TLS. Will leave off my resume.

<--- my actual reaction to this

[Johann]

Blue Lotus - you can pretty much do whatever you want with your resume. It's your resume. However, it's going to look very weird when you are interviewed and they learn you spent your first two years at T30 and left it off your resume completely. They will ask you about it right then and there in the interview and how will you respond? The 2 page limit? Or that you're embarassed by the school? Either answer is terrible.

The best thing to do is list the JD granting instituation with a parenthetical of visiting student at TT

This only takes up 1 line still and lets your employers know you have ties to the area. Clarify in your cover letter that you knew you wanted to remain in local market so that is why you studied at local TT your last year. A T30 school is fine and you should not be embarrassed by it.

Good luck, Blue.