The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Alcibiades]

Just need to put it behind you and grind through. If this system is utterly stupid (and it is, I assure you), you need to set out to prove it wrong by succeeding.

Thanks that's good perspective. This thread is incredibly therapeutic. Nice to know there are other people struggling.

[BVest]

I heard a job is opening at the govt. agency I did my post-bar at.

What should I be doing to get this job?

Reach out to whoever your contact is there and see if they can put your resume in front of the hiring person. Hopefully, you left a favorable impression on the office during your time there.

And if it's an agency that has a highly structured posting/application process, check their site to see if the posting is up. If it is, go ahead and complete the application so that you can tell your contact that and they can flag your app for consideration.

[thatgirlthere]

If anybody is in DC and would like their resume reviewed by an attorney in their area of interest, PM me for info.

[Anonymous User]

Missed phone call from (I believe) my interviewer I've been waiting to hear from this morning but no voicemail. Good sign, bad sign, or no sign? And should I call back (keeping in mind they didn't leave a message or anything)?

yes, call back. regardless of whether its a good sign, better to hear on the phone than via email. one callback and a voicemail (if you can't get through) should do; don't blow up their phone.

I heard a job is opening at the govt. agency I did my post-bar at.

What should I be doing to get this job?

Reach out to whoever your contact is there and see if they can put your resume in front of the hiring person. Hopefully, you left a favorable impression on the office during your time there.

I was the second choice for the job opening last time (they went with someone with experience) but the hiring guy said they want to have me back. I've tried to contact pretty much everyone I know there, but I haven't been able to get much info. I did find out the person leaving starts their new job next week. They probably won't post the job anywhere.

I hate sitting around. Is there anything else I can try? I'm desperate to get out of the Vale.

[JJDancer]

Got a rejection email today from a job I applied to 3 months ago ... at least they responded?

[hous]

Got a rejection email today from a job I applied to 3 months ago ... at least they responded?

Two weeks ago I got a rejection email from a job I applied to 12 months ago. Good thing I accepted something upon before graduation rather than wait til I heard back from this job.

[Anonymous User]

Lost out on a law clerk position because I was "overqualified." What the fuck.

Apparently I'm not qualified enough to find an attorney position since graduation, but I'm overqualified for a paid clerk position...sigh.

[NoleinNY]

Writing to encourage you all going through Hell right now to keep going. It may take a while, and a lot of work, but never tell yourself you can't. Never let darkness overtake the light.

[sparty99]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

[rinkrat19]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

Constructive.

[shredderrrrrr]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

I suppose you suggest everyone just up and get one of the ever-prevalent $80,000/year jobs waiting around (regardless of the fact that, you know, they want to be lawyers)?

[sparty99]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

I suppose you suggest everyone just up and get one of the ever-prevalent $80,000/year jobs waiting around (regardless of the fact that, you know, they want to be lawyers)?

No one said anything about jobs paying $80k. But jobs paying $50-$65 can be had outside of the legal community. People might want to be lawyers, but there aren't even enough jobs for those people. Why waste a year doing a $30k fellowship or struggling to pay rent? I have never seen a more bs industry. GPA/Class rank whores at law firms and big government. Its just a waste of time. Especialy if you are one year out after graduation and are still struggling.

[shredderrrrrr]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

I suppose you suggest everyone just up and get one of the ever-prevalent $80,000/year jobs waiting around (regardless of the fact that, you know, they want to be lawyers)?

No one said anything about jobs paying $80k. But jobs paying $50-$65 can be had outside of the legal community. People might want to be lawyers, but there aren't even enough jobs for those people. Why waste a year doing a $30k fellowship or struggling to pay rent? I have never seen a more bs industry. GPA/Class rank whores at law firms and big government. Its just a waste of time. Especialy if you are one year out after graduation and are still struggling.

The point remains though--where are these $50-$65k jobs that are so easy to get? I suspect a lot of people in here would jump at the chance to have a $60k/job, non-law or not, if it was freely available right now without any further schooling required.

[sparty99]

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year.

I suppose you suggest everyone just up and get one of the ever-prevalent $80,000/year jobs waiting around (regardless of the fact that, you know, they want to be lawyers)?

No one said anything about jobs paying $80k. But jobs paying $50-$65 can be had outside of the legal community. People might want to be lawyers, but there aren't even enough jobs for those people. Why waste a year doing a $30k fellowship or struggling to pay rent? I have never seen a more bs industry. GPA/Class rank whores at law firms and big government. Its just a waste of time. Especialy if you are one year out after graduation and are still struggling.

The point remains though--where are these $50-$65k jobs that are so easy to get? I suspect a lot of people in here would jump at the chance to have a $60k/job, non-law or not, if it was freely available right now without any further schooling required.

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

[rinkrat19]

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

So does your posting ITT serve any function whatsoever besides just being a dick?

[sparty99]

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

So does your posting ITT serve any function whatsoever besides just being a dick?

Advising people to seek jobs that are non-legal is beneficial. Its not my fault you attack the user.

[shredderrrrrr]

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

You said there is no need to "fight and claw" for a law job. What is the point of that comment if you are going to have to "fight and claw" for a non-law job? Just that some of the jobs will pay better?

What you're telling me is that your comment should have read:

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year when you can instead fight and claw for a job paying between $50,000 and $65,000 a year.

[sparty99]

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

You said there is no need to "fight and claw" for a law job. What is the point of that comment if you are going to have to "fight and claw" for a non-law job? Just that some of the jobs will pay better?

What you're telling me is that your comment should have read:

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year when you can instead fight and claw for a job paying between $50,000 and $65,000 a year.

There are plenty of non-legal jobs to be had. It is a much larger market than legal jobs. What the hell type of jobs do you think new graduates get? They get jobs paying $40-65k. The only fight and clawing is in the legal industry. If you have the mind set to get a non-legal job, you can apply to anything and everything. You can apply to jobs in any location. You don't have to worry about being licensed, etc. But some people focus solely on legal jobs waiting to get out of the valve. Or they take jobs as law clerks working with a solo practitioner.

[Merr]

No one said anything about jobs paying $80k. But jobs paying $50-$65 can be had outside of the legal community. People might want to be lawyers, but there aren't even enough jobs for those people. Why waste a year doing a $30k fellowship or struggling to pay rent? I have never seen a more bs industry. GPA/Class rank whores at law firms and big government. Its just a waste of time. Especialy if you are one year out after graduation and are still struggling.

I have done non-legal for quite sometime, because that is what I enjoy and am good at. With that said I don't think people I don't agree that law is a bs industry or that people looking for legal employment because that is what they want is a waste of time.

[shredderrrrrr]

No one ever said the word easy either. If you can't find jobs that pay $50-$65, non legal, I can't help you.

You said there is no need to "fight and claw" for a law job. What is the point of that comment if you are going to have to "fight and claw" for a non-law job? Just that some of the jobs will pay better?

What you're telling me is that your comment should have read:

If you can't find a legal job, you might consider leaving the industry. It is bull-shit. No need to be depressed and fight and claw your way so you can get a job paying $40,000 a year when you can instead fight and claw for a job paying between $50,000 and $65,000 a year.

There are plenty of non-legal jobs to be had. It is a much larger market than legal jobs. What the hell type of jobs do you think new graduates get? They get jobs paying $40-65k. The only fight and clawing is in the legal industry. If you have the mind set to get a non-legal job, you can apply to anything and everything. You can apply to jobs in any location. You don't have to worry about being licensed, etc. But some people focus solely on legal jobs waiting to get out of the valve. Or they take jobs as law clerks working with a solo practitioner.

"New graduates"--that's exactly it. They have a relevant degree making them marketable. Sure, there are tons of actuaries and the like being hired these days. But what chance does a law student have (unless their UG degree happens to be in such a field)?

I mean, your point is well taken that looking outside of law will certainly expand the number of potential jobs one can apply for. I agree with you there--at some point, just cut your losses and expand your search. But I just don't think someone doing it is opening themselves up to as many possible jobs as you suggest. Unless you want to go back and get another degree, the only non-law jobs a law student is going to be able to realistically get (again, outside of their UG degree) will be jobs that don't require a degree in the first place--which hardly seem like jobs to be jumping at relative to the few law jobs floating around.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think the idea that people who haven't been able to get law jobs aren't looking for non-legal work is pretty much a straw man, so to that extent telling people to apply for non-law jobs isn't beneficial, it's "duh."

And having a JD on your resume puts you in a different position from people looking for jobs out of undergrad - except for the true JD-advantage jobs, it's not an advantage and it makes you look weird, and employers aren't up for hiring weird without a good reason. I mean, sure, there are plenty of people who should look for non-law jobs, except that 1) those people are looking for non-law jobs, and 2) getting non-law entry level jobs is often harder when you have a JD after your name than when you don't. (You can take the JD off but then you have to explain what you've been doing for the past 3+ years.)

Obviously the above doesn't mean people should give up and sit in their parents' basement and play WOW or whatever instead of trying for other jobs. You certainly can retool yourself and market yourself in other fields. But "there are a lot more non-legal jobs, just apply outside of law" isn't really saying anything helpful.

[Anonymous User]

Had an interview with a large firm w/ a small satellite office. Got the interview through mass mail.

Interview was Friday and I got a rejection email this morning from their national recruiter.

However, I had been corresponding through my law school email. The rejection went to my undergrad email. Months ago I think I may have applied through their generic online app using my undergrad email. Also, late Friday afternoon the managing partner requested some writing samples (couldn't send them over the weekend).

So it seems sort of fishy that this may have been a rejection of may generic application from a long time ago. But no way this could be that big of a coincidence right?

[BVest]

Had an interview with a large firm w/ a small satellite office. Got the interview through mass mail.

Interview was Friday and I got a rejection email this morning from their national recruiter.

However, I had been corresponding through my law school email. The rejection went to my undergrad email. Months ago I think I may have applied through their generic online app using my undergrad email. Also, late Friday afternoon the managing partner requested some writing samples (couldn't send them over the weekend).

So it seems sort of fishy that this may have been a rejection of may generic application from a long time ago. But no way this could be that big of a coincidence right?

It could certainly be a coincidence. Recruiter spends time going through applications, lining up interviews, then dealing with the interviews, and then, after the interviews, finally has the all clear to send dings to all the applications they did not select for interview. You could have had an application in both piles -- one for interview and one for no interview.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Had an interview with a large firm w/ a small satellite office. Got the interview through mass mail.

Interview was Friday and I got a rejection email this morning from their national recruiter.

However, I had been corresponding through my law school email. The rejection went to my undergrad email. Months ago I think I may have applied through their generic online app using my undergrad email. Also, late Friday afternoon the managing partner requested some writing samples (couldn't send them over the weekend).

So it seems sort of fishy that this may have been a rejection of may generic application from a long time ago. But no way this could be that big of a coincidence right?

It could certainly be a coincidence. Recruiter spends time going through applications, lining up interviews, then dealing with the interviews, and then, after the interviews, finally has the all clear to send dings to all the applications they did not select for interview. You could have had an application in both piles -- one for interview and one for no interview.

Good luck.

Well I followed up this morning to the MP w/ the writing samples. He has not responded.

I guess I should just email the recruiter and ask if this is a rejection from my interview or through the application?

[BVest]

I guess I should just email the recruiter and ask if this is a rejection from my interview or through the application?

I'm not sure I'd do that. (And I wouldn't expect an immediate response to the writing samples).