Summer Associates 2014: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences... Forum

[09042014]

Could be paranoia, but if a firm was 100% last year, yet partners make announcements "wherever you wind up starting your career" or "if you come back" at group sessions does this mean we may not be 100%?

That wouldn't make me worry.

But being 100% last year doesn't really mean anything. That could mean there just wasnt anyone who was no offer worthy.

[Anonymous User]

Could be paranoia, but if a firm was 100% last year, yet partners make announcements "wherever you wind up starting your career" or "if you come back" at group sessions does this mean we may not be 100%?

That wouldn't make me worry.
.

Unless they were staring in your general direction every time they used the word "you" in the announcement.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

[09042014]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

Bigoted jokes? Worry

dirty jokes about women at the firm? Worry

otherwise, enjoy

[jd20132013]

sounds like the jokes were a bit more than off color if you're not sleeping.

at any rate there's nothing you can do now. but considering the social adeptness of most summers if this is your only screwup you'll probably slide. i always tell people: remember these people aren't your friends, they're your bosses

if you can't resist telling jokes with a few drinks in you, stick to one

[shock259]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

How bad were they? What was the response of people around you?

[Anonymous User]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

Happenned at my firm with a couple of SA classmates. One thing that might help is for you to take any opportunity, when it arises, to apologize to those people who you think might have been slighted, sort of self-deprecating remarks about how clutsy you are when you have a few in you, etc.
This way, if they were in fact insulted, you'd be softening the damage with humility. If they weren't, at least you'd sleep a lot better knowing that you took remedial action.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

Happenned at my firm with a couple of SA classmates. One thing that might help is for you to take any opportunity, when it arises, to apologize to those people who you think might have been slighted, sort of self-deprecating remarks about how clutsy you are when you have a few in you, etc.
This way, if they were in fact insulted, you'd be softening the damage with humility. If they weren't, at least you'd sleep a lot better knowing that you took remedial action.

I would definitely not do this because (1) this is not an apology-appropriate situation, you're a summer not an associate, so (2) you want to draw as little attention to the situation as possible, bringing it up again just makes it more awkward, (3) especially if the person was not offended or didn't hear it in the first place, and is now wondering why you're repeating it.

[Anonymous User]

Is joking about being blacked out in a restaurant that came up in conversation many years ago considered "off-color"?

If so I have some work to do. But it didn't feel all that inappropriate.

[Jacky D.]

Is joking about being blacked out in a restaurant that came up in conversation many years ago considered "off-color"?

If so I have some work to do. But it didn't feel all that inappropriate.

Surely varies firm to firm, probably even lawyer to lawyer. If the crowd was pretty laid back and it was a "back in college" story, you're probably fine. I doubt anyone is telling the managing partner of their firm about "the last time I was blacked out in this place"

[Anonymous User]

Is joking about being blacked out in a restaurant that came up in conversation many years ago considered "off-color"?

If so I have some work to do. But it didn't feel all that inappropriate.

Depends on you and your personality. I've seen summers and experienced lawyers do this, and it's fine. But I think if I did it, it wouldn't fly because it doesn't fit my personality (laid back but more old fashioned). Just read the other people's body language? If they look at each other when you say it, you're probably weird.

[Anonymous User]

yah, i've been debating talking to my mentor about it, who I trust. i don't necessarily want to draw more attention though.

[09042014]

yah, i've been debating talking to my mentor about it, who I trust. i don't necessarily want to draw more attention though.

How bad where these comments.

[El Pollito]

Have people who are aware of these drunken remarks acted differently toward you? Has anyone said anything?

[Anonymous User]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

If someone says something about it to HR, sorry you're done. Particularly in a big law camp. They do not mess around with this stuff. I know from personal experience having reported someone who said some heavily racist things. Unless the firm just doesn't care if people say shit like that, in which case shame on them and I wouldn't work there.

Me personally, might I have not reported if he owned up to it and apologized? Who knows. Honestly I think it would have helped, but I can't be sure I wouldn't have reported it anyway because of the level to which this was egregious.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so fucking nervous. Made a few off color jokes while out drinking and just can't stop thinking of them (not gonna give details). I'm not really sleeping and keep thinking about how how I could have ruined my career in the dumbest way possible. Historically high offer rate doesn't help. I just want it to be over.

If someone says something about it to HR, sorry you're done. Particularly in a big law camp. They do not mess around with this stuff. I know from personal experience having reported someone who said some heavily racist things. Unless the firm just doesn't care if people say shit like that, in which case shame on them and I wouldn't work there.

Me personally, might I have not reported if he owned up to it and apologized? Who knows. Honestly I think it would have helped, but I can't be sure I wouldn't have reported it anyway because of the level to which this was egregious.

Yep. Reporting to HR is practically fatal, because once the incident is officially logged, the firm is locked-in on protecting its own PR ass, rather that looking for some excuse to keep you. That's why I originally suggested taking pro-active steps to apologize, even at the risk of attracting further attention. You never know, the person you apologize to could very well be the one who was thinking about reporting you. Anyway, attention aside, it's the right thing to do if you've stupidly offended someone.

[Anonymous User]

Someone made a comment like this in my presence and I didn't report him despite the awkward silence following.

Not sure if anyone else did.

[mephistopheles]

Someone made a comment like this in my presence and I didn't report him despite the awkward silence following.

Not sure if anyone else did.

a comment like what?

and don't say "i can't say, i'm worry about being outed" because a) these jokes are made all of the time and b) you're anon

[Anonymous User]

Someone made a comment like this in my presence and I didn't report him despite the awkward silence following.

Not sure if anyone else did.

a comment like what?

and don't say "i can't say, i'm worry about being outed" because a) these jokes are made all of the time and b) you're anon

I honestly don't remember, it wasn't a big deal to me and, like the person that said it, I had a few in me.

Can't say your tone is helping to jog my memory, though.

[mephistopheles]

i doubt if i had been more polite, your memory would have been better jogged

[Anonymous User]

Look, we're trying to offert help, but can't becauise off your apparent evasiveness. Either own up to it and tell us, or just drop the topic, 'cuase we don't want to waste time. Also, start mass-mailing.

[El Pollito]

Someone made a comment like this in my presence and I didn't report him despite the awkward silence following.

Not sure if anyone else did.

a comment like what?

and don't say "i can't say, i'm worry about being outed" because a) these jokes are made all of the time and b) you're anon

I honestly don't remember, it wasn't a big deal to me and, like the person that said it, I had a few in me.

Can't say your tone is helping to jog my memory, though.

Just lol.

[smaug_]

bd is that you behind one of these anons?

[Old Gregg]

Some general tips on when you think you might have said something wrong:

1) Generally, you think you're more important/impactful/memorable than you really are. When you say something that falls within the very vast medium of acceptable communication, it will register in someone else's mind and then they will go on to think about whatever they were going to think about (which is probably themselves). This is why the senior partner down the hallway doesn't remember your name, despite it being on your door, despite your having lunch with him, and despite you running into him when grabbing coffee at the pantry, etc.

2) Generally, you tend to overestimate how bad or good something you say is compared to how objectively offensive or beneficial it really is. The reality is that, unless you say something that's considered extremely offensive (I'm talking about jokes from Anthony Jeselnick, etc.), you're generally in the clear. If you want to play it safe, you can be boring. But I work with summers who say off-color jokes. They wouldn't be funny if they were not off-color.

3) Generally, it takes a lot of effort for someone to report bad behavior, and even then it doesn't have much of an impact. (a) You would have to say something extremely offensive to motivate someone to take the time out of their day to explain any of it do a staff member (i.e., recruiting and/or HR) and (b) Recruiting actually has a pretty good idea as to who the douchiest people in a summer class are (one summer, I asked one member of recruiting who he thought the douchiest people were, and he pointed to all three and I said "bingo."--they all still got offers). But being known as a douche isn't the hugest deal because Biglaw is full of douches throughout the ranks. While there might be some who don't like you because of that fact, the douches will love you.

Most law firms really strive to give summers the benefit of the doubt. A couple of transgressions, even blatant ones, can be recovered from. But you're generally in trouble when there's a string of transgressions that starts to show a pattern of behavior. If you get sloshed one night and say something very inappropriate, it might or might not have an impact. If you keep doing this over and over again, it is something that might get you talked to at a mid-summer review. If you keep doing it from there, you will be no-offered.

So really, my best advice is to tell you to relax. Generally, and I shouldn't be saying this, avoid jokes about race, politics, religion, gender, rape, violence, etc. But also know your audience. If the group of associates is making republican jokes, have at it, I guess. But I always try to steer clear of jokes involving religion, gender, rape, violence, etc. even when the other party invites it. Just a classless topic in general to take true humor in. And even if you're trying to make a parody/ironic joke out of it, a lot of people don't pick up on the subtleties. I tend to just keep those jokes to my close circle of friends rather than inflict them on the world at large.

Hope this helps.