2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

The question is how many of us are willing to walk the walk if they think these insulting bonuses are acceptable?

I have an open offer for a lower stress role in my small, home market, and I am 100% leaving if this is what they think the last two years are worth. I honestly hope there’s an exodus like never before and these groups are left crippled. Let stub years run deals.

[Anonymous User]

Class of 2016 at a v5. I’m on my way out come January if this doesn’t move. Insulting to say the least.

[Anonymous User]

Let stub years run deals.

We are! Can't you tell by the quality of work?

[objctnyrhnr]

Clearly match per Atl?

This is not ideal. Can’t have a bunch of v20 matches right now.

If firms think they can get away with this scale they will act accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

Curious how many people saying they’re leaving will actually leave. Or if they’re just hoping Neil Barr does one more market check of TLS before announcing

[Anonymous User]

Curious how many people saying they’re leaving will actually leave. Or if they’re just hoping Neil Barr does one more market check of TLS before announcing

I wanted documented retention bonuses. If bonuses stay as is, I am going to lateral for the signing bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Curious how many people saying they’re leaving will actually leave. Or if they’re just hoping Neil Barr does one more market check of TLS before announcing

FWIW, I'm not immediately leaving. Will be taking maxed out paternity leave early next year with a week or two of "vacation" time tacked onto the end of the period. Then I'll be leaving.

[glitched]

I have a family friend that has an in-house position that she's been wanting me to join so I'll definitely leave if they don't raise it. Life's too short.

[cornerstone]

So is the Mintz special bonus just getting ignored?

Good point. Highest compensated associates (other than WLRK) for billing 2,000 hours are Mintz associates. Mintz V2, Cravath receiving all 1s across the board next survey.

We still don't know this because no Mintz associate has owned up to what happened in 2020. 2021 comp may be better, but it could be a loss.

[Anonymous User]

Curious how many people saying they’re leaving will actually leave. Or if they’re just hoping Neil Barr does one more market check of TLS before announcing

I wanted documented retention bonuses. If bonuses stay as is, I am going to lateral for the signing bonus.

I’m also going to lateral, take the signing bonus, stay for the claw period and then go in-house. Had this moved differently, with a retention bonus and increase in the EOY at least sufficient to match inflation and/or compensate midlevels at the same rate as juniors/seniors, I think would have stayed at my firm. Given this ridiculous raise, it makes 0 financial not to make a lateral jump.

[Anonymous User]

Curious how many people saying they’re leaving will actually leave. Or if they’re just hoping Neil Barr does one more market check of TLS before announcing

FWIW, I'm not immediately leaving. Will be taking maxed out paternity leave early next year with a week or two of "vacation" time tacked onto the end of the period. Then I'll be leaving.

That's the way to do it. I took 18 weeks over the summer/fall and it was glorious. I'm actually starting to worry about how saturated the in-house market is going to be in January/February and finding a good gig.

[Anonymous User]

As a litigator, I'm jealous of all you corporate types acting like y'all can just up and go into the in-house world like it's no big deal

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

lmfao a little condescension and a lot of supposition = classic TLS bullshit, thanks for that. We are in the middle of a transition in the biglaw model, whether you're aware of it or not. Equity profits are being supercharged at the same time that the bridge to equity is being drawn up. The compensation ratio between associates:partners is wider than it's ever been. And I have personally seen the attrition numbers for my firm in '21 and they are horrific (although we're bringing in a large number of attorneys at the same time to try to staunch the flow).

Have you ever sat in a comp. committee meeting or at least heard the gossip that comes out of one? Nothing is "priced in." Firms are not managed by economists. They aren't calculating the probability of departure except at a very gut level nor are they acknowledging how much things are changing under their feet as attrition rises to massive levels in the industry. They're ordinary human beings (albeit with another 10-20 years of experience) sort of winging it while trying to get as much $ as they can.

We can't staff cases right now. We are turning down mid-8-figure reps because we literally don't have the capacity. Some firms are ultimately going to get this and get their comp. right to address the problem and others aren't and the latter will ultimately be able to continue to thrive.

You’re misunderstanding what I meant by priced in, but it’s not worth sorting out. I get how the stuff about gratitude / point of view sounds condescending, and maybe is, but it’s incidentally true. Anyways, stupid of me to get into it on TLS, I just saw someone complaining about a six figure bonus and accusing others of being “tone deaf” in the same breath, which I thought was a bit too ironic to ignore. Be well and hope you get some much deserved down time with the family this holiday season.

[cisscum]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

lmfao a little condescension and a lot of supposition = classic TLS bullshit, thanks for that. We are in the middle of a transition in the biglaw model, whether you're aware of it or not. Equity profits are being supercharged at the same time that the bridge to equity is being drawn up. The compensation ratio between associates:partners is wider than it's ever been. And I have personally seen the attrition numbers for my firm in '21 and they are horrific (although we're bringing in a large number of attorneys at the same time to try to staunch the flow).

Have you ever sat in a comp. committee meeting or at least heard the gossip that comes out of one? Nothing is "priced in." Firms are not managed by economists. They aren't calculating the probability of departure except at a very gut level nor are they acknowledging how much things are changing under their feet as attrition rises to massive levels in the industry. They're ordinary human beings (albeit with another 10-20 years of experience) sort of winging it while trying to get as much $ as they can.

We can't staff cases right now. We are turning down mid-8-figure reps because we literally don't have the capacity. Some firms are ultimately going to get this and get their comp. right to address the problem and others aren't and the latter will ultimately be able to continue to thrive.

You’re misunderstanding what I meant by priced in, but it’s not worth sorting out. I get how the stuff about gratitude / point of view sounds condescending, and maybe is, but it’s incidentally true. Anyways, stupid of me to get into it on TLS, I just saw someone complaining about a six figure bonus and accusing others of being “tone deaf” in the same breath, which I thought was a bit too ironic to ignore. Be well and hope you get some much deserved down time with the family this holiday season.

fuck off idiot. We expect six figure bonuses because we borrowed a ton of money, studied a lot and worked our ass for it. STFU and fuck your holiday

[Anonymous User]

If we are still playing the prediction game, my guess is someone comes in today or tomorrow and one-ups this, but not by too much. Just enough to differentiate:

2021 = $15k (pro rated) -->$20k
2020 = $20k -->$25k
2019 = $30k -->$35k
2018 = $57.5k -->$70k
2017 = $75k -->$85K
2016 = $90k -->$100k
2015 = $105k -->$120k
2014 = $115k -->$130k

Something like that. I could also see a scale universally 5K less (so no bump for 2021-2019). And the other firms will rush to match (but not beat), and that will be the scale.

But this still doesn't address the fact of making LESS money next year on an inflation adjusted basis. Great to see comp go up this year, but the class-year difference in salary + EOY bonus on this scale for a midlevel is roughly flat. Maybe the idea was to front-load compensation during the pandemic or that the market is going to dramatically slow (and thus firms are hedging against that eventuality). Or, maybe, all of the associate comp was just from PPP Loans. In either case, doing more work and taking on more responsibility for the equivalent pay on real terms is a losing proposition.

Anon you quoted. I am making no judgment about what firms should do, only what they will do.

That said, I do think some of the comments on here sound like they are coming from pretty junior attorneys. Frankly (and sorry if this is a party pooper statement, I like more money too), I'm a little suprised we saw an increase at all, with both special bonuses and salary increases already. I suspect most managing partners would say the salary increases were to deal with inflation. Doing "special" bonuses, salary increases, AND year end bonus increases (even if small) in one year is, as far as I can remember, unprecedented.

Again, not saying it shouldn't happen, or that it shouldn't have happened before. Just that I think anyone who thought we would see 200k senior associate bonuses was not being realistic about how these decisions have been made in the past.

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

lmfao a little condescension and a lot of supposition = classic TLS bullshit, thanks for that. We are in the middle of a transition in the biglaw model, whether you're aware of it or not. Equity profits are being supercharged at the same time that the bridge to equity is being drawn up. The compensation ratio between associates:partners is wider than it's ever been. And I have personally seen the attrition numbers for my firm in '21 and they are horrific (although we're bringing in a large number of attorneys at the same time to try to staunch the flow).

Have you ever sat in a comp. committee meeting or at least heard the gossip that comes out of one? Nothing is "priced in." Firms are not managed by economists. They aren't calculating the probability of departure except at a very gut level nor are they acknowledging how much things are changing under their feet as attrition rises to massive levels in the industry. They're ordinary human beings (albeit with another 10-20 years of experience) sort of winging it while trying to get as much $ as they can.

We can't staff cases right now. We are turning down mid-8-figure reps because we literally don't have the capacity. Some firms are ultimately going to get this and get their comp. right to address the problem and others aren't and the latter will ultimately be able to continue to thrive.

You’re misunderstanding what I meant by priced in, but it’s not worth sorting out. I get how the stuff about gratitude / point of view sounds condescending, and maybe is, but it’s incidentally true. Anyways, stupid of me to get into it on TLS, I just saw someone complaining about a six figure bonus and accusing others of being “tone deaf” in the same breath, which I thought was a bit too ironic to ignore. Be well and hope you get some much deserved down time with the family this holiday season.

You'll have a better appreciation for things as you get more senior and realize the gaping disparity in the current structure. Be well my friend lol

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

lmfao a little condescension and a lot of supposition = classic TLS bullshit, thanks for that. We are in the middle of a transition in the biglaw model, whether you're aware of it or not. Equity profits are being supercharged at the same time that the bridge to equity is being drawn up. The compensation ratio between associates:partners is wider than it's ever been. And I have personally seen the attrition numbers for my firm in '21 and they are horrific (although we're bringing in a large number of attorneys at the same time to try to staunch the flow).

Have you ever sat in a comp. committee meeting or at least heard the gossip that comes out of one? Nothing is "priced in." Firms are not managed by economists. They aren't calculating the probability of departure except at a very gut level nor are they acknowledging how much things are changing under their feet as attrition rises to massive levels in the industry. They're ordinary human beings (albeit with another 10-20 years of experience) sort of winging it while trying to get as much $ as they can.

We can't staff cases right now. We are turning down mid-8-figure reps because we literally don't have the capacity. Some firms are ultimately going to get this and get their comp. right to address the problem and others aren't and the latter will ultimately be able to continue to thrive.

You’re misunderstanding what I meant by priced in, but it’s not worth sorting out. I get how the stuff about gratitude / point of view sounds condescending, and maybe is, but it’s incidentally true. Anyways, stupid of me to get into it on TLS, I just saw someone complaining about a six figure bonus and accusing others of being “tone deaf” in the same breath, which I thought was a bit too ironic to ignore. Be well and hope you get some much deserved down time with the family this holiday season.

Anyone with the time to be this condescending twice certainly should not be preaching to others about gratitude and point of view. Everyone in this thread is aware that six figure bonuses are incredible compared to what the average American is making. What you seem to have missed is that the OP you bashed is also working around the clock with children and no support in order to, quite literally, line the already plentiful savings accounts of the partners s/he works for. That those partners could not have given all of us that are burnt out well beyond the point of exhaustion a raise at least in line with inflation is the true issue. Get a grip.

[Anonymous User]

Hey - can someone explain to me why people keep saying we're making less this year than last year?

In 2020, a 1st year made 190k base + 15k EOY bonus + $7.5k COVID bonus = $212,500
In 2021, a 1st year made 205k* base + $20k EOY bonus + $12k retention bonus = $237,000
*I understand the base salary was only raised half way through the year, so it's really more like $197.5K base, but still more than 2020.

I'm not trying to flame - I'm just trying to understand how people are calculating us making less money. For reference, I'm going off the numbers here which also adjusts for inflation: https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

No, it’s 2021 comp vs. 2022 comp. In the absence of special bonuses for 2022, comp is remaining practically flat for 2022. Same anon as above who is being informed that firms only care about the perception, not the effect. But the effect is I’m going to be looking at lateral options to make up the difference.

[Anonymous User]

Guys, stop freaking out-we might get iPads too: https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/skadden ... day-bonus/

[glitched]

If we are still playing the prediction game, my guess is someone comes in today or tomorrow and one-ups this, but not by too much. Just enough to differentiate:

2021 = $15k (pro rated) -->$20k
2020 = $20k -->$25k
2019 = $30k -->$35k
2018 = $57.5k -->$70k
2017 = $75k -->$85K
2016 = $90k -->$100k
2015 = $105k -->$120k
2014 = $115k -->$130k

Something like that. I could also see a scale universally 5K less (so no bump for 2021-2019). And the other firms will rush to match (but not beat), and that will be the scale.

But this still doesn't address the fact of making LESS money next year on an inflation adjusted basis. Great to see comp go up this year, but the class-year difference in salary + EOY bonus on this scale for a midlevel is roughly flat. Maybe the idea was to front-load compensation during the pandemic or that the market is going to dramatically slow (and thus firms are hedging against that eventuality). Or, maybe, all of the associate comp was just from PPP Loans. In either case, doing more work and taking on more responsibility for the equivalent pay on real terms is a losing proposition.

Anon you quoted. I am making no judgment about what firms should do, only what they will do.

That said, I do think some of the comments on here sound like they are coming from pretty junior attorneys. Frankly (and sorry if this is a party pooper statement, I like more money too), I'm a little suprised we saw an increase at all, with both special bonuses and salary increases already. I suspect most managing partners would say the salary increases were to deal with inflation. Doing "special" bonuses, salary increases, AND year end bonus increases (even if small) in one year is, as far as I can remember, unprecedented.

Again, not saying it shouldn't happen, or that it shouldn't have happened before. Just that I think anyone who thought we would see 200k senior associate bonuses was not being realistic about how these decisions have been made in the past.

GTFO

[lawdude31]

Guys, stop freaking out-we might get iPads too: https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/skadden ... day-bonus/

But will this be a raise of the scale where we will get iPads each year, or is this a special bonus?

[Anonymous User]

Guys, stop freaking out-we might get iPads too: https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/skadden ... day-bonus/

But will this be a raise of the scale where we will get iPads each year, or is this a special bonus?

You'll get them each year, but it'll always be the same model of iPad.

[Anonymous User]

I always lmfao at all the bootlickers who come out of the woodwork at this time of year and try to justify the absolutely eye-watering greed of V25 partnerships. Guys, they aren't going to fuck you no matter how much you smile at them. We are talking about people who are making $3, $4, $5, $8, $10m a year who don't give a shit about you despite you generating millions of rev. per year for them. All these boomer and gen X equity partners are getting every penny they can off of you right now. Wise up.

[Anonymous User]

Responding to a few different points made in this thread.

1. LOL Cravath

2. KE lateral bonuses aren't $400K. This is a dumb argument to try and make your case over.

3. No one cares about ATL anymore. Lat moved on and I have nothing remotely positive to say about the current staff.

4. Desperately need DPW/Milbank to come over the top in a big way.

[VentureMBA]

I always lmfao at all the bootlickers who come out of the woodwork at this time of year and try to justify the absolutely eye-watering greed of V25 partnerships. Guys, they aren't going to fuck you no matter how much you smile at them. We are talking about people who are making $3, $4, $5, $8, $10m a year who don't give a shit about you despite you generating millions of rev. per year for them. All these boomer and gen X equity partners are getting every penny they can off of you right now. Wise up.

The TLS Manifesto Volume 285