ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012) Forum

[Big Shrimpin]

Many firms would never demand these kinds of hours from their summers. In that context it's not crazy for people to express disappointment about it. Of course the summer salaries are nuts but so are first-year salaries, etc. The fact that there's 8% unemployment has nothing to do with it. I could link to a dozen posts on Above The Law bitching about how first-year bonuses are "only" 1/4 of the annual salary I made at my first job but it would be missing the point because it's all about relative expectations.

I am confused about why anyone making $3k a week as a summer intern would expect to have their evenings and weekends respected.

I totally agree. But you also have to draw a distinction between being genuinely busy and just being a douche. There are always going to be people who want to make everyone else's life miserable, like requiring an SA to come in all weekend to do made-up tasks or stuff that doesn't need to get done for a really long time, etc. SAs should definitely not go in thinking they'll have all their nights/weekends free, but it does suck when someone is paired with a junior who's hellbent on making the SAs life as miserable as theirs.

I totally intend to help SAs get a good experience, but I'm not going to make them miserable for little or no reason.

[rad lulz]

I work nights and weekends on the reg bc I am just so scared of no offer

[Old Gregg]

Even if it were commonplace, I don't think it's crazy or weird for people to express disappointment that they have to work on a weekend. It's kind of human nature. Whiny moaning and flailing about it unnecessary.

Dissapointment is one thing. The above is something else. Luckily, the English vocabulary is capable of expressing these two distinct emotions with distinct words.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Many firms would never demand these kinds of hours from their summers. In that context it's not crazy for people to express disappointment about it. Of course the summer salaries are nuts but so are first-year salaries, etc. The fact that there's 8% unemployment has nothing to do with it. I could link to a dozen posts on Above The Law bitching about how first-year bonuses are "only" 1/4 of the annual salary I made at my first job but it would be missing the point because it's all about relative expectations.

I am confused about why anyone making $3k a week as a summer intern would expect to have their evenings and weekends respected.

Because it's usually what happens? Expecting it to happen and thinking you're entitled to it are two different things. Clearly no summer associate deserves to have his or her personal time respected, whatever "deserves" means.

I guess I never had the impression that no nights/weekends was what "usually" happens to summers because all the people I have known who summered in NY in the past two years had to work some nights/weekends.

It really does seem to depend on who you talk to and where they've worked. Just about everyone I know was only required to do nights or weekends sparingly, and almost always because they fell behind on an assignment they had known about for a while, not because some associate dumped shit on them on a Friday afternoon.

[Old Gregg]

Many firms would never demand these kinds of hours from their summers. In that context it's not crazy for people to express disappointment about it. Of course the summer salaries are nuts but so are first-year salaries, etc. The fact that there's 8% unemployment has nothing to do with it. I could link to a dozen posts on Above The Law bitching about how first-year bonuses are "only" 1/4 of the annual salary I made at my first job but it would be missing the point because it's all about relative expectations.

I am confused about why anyone making $3k a week as a summer intern would expect to have their evenings and weekends respected.

I totally agree. But you also have to draw a distinction between being genuinely busy and just being a douche. There are always going to be people who want to make everyone else's life miserable, like requiring an SA to come in all weekend to do made-up tasks or stuff that doesn't need to get done for a really long time, etc. SAs should definitely not go in thinking they'll have all their nights/weekends free, but it does suck when someone is paired with a junior who's hellbent on making the SAs life as miserable as theirs.

I totally intend to help SAs get a good experience, but I'm not going to make them miserable for little or no reason.

I don't think anyone here believes made up weekend work is a good thing or that summers should t complain about that.

[DwightSchruteFarms]

Can't you bros just chill out, enjoy the weekend, and watch Spain v. France?

[IAFG]

It really does seem to depend on who you talk to and where they've worked. Just about everyone I know was only required to do nights or weekends sparingly, and almost always because they fell behind on an assignment they had known about for a while, not because some associate dumped shit on them on a Friday afternoon.

Okay. I am talking about people who worked at SullCrom, DPW, Quinn, K&E NY, Fried Frank, WLRK, Milbank, Proskauer Rose. Based on that sample, I assumed anyone working in NY over a summer could expect to have shit dumped on them that would require them to work on weekends as summers.

[dixiecupdrinking]

It really does seem to depend on who you talk to and where they've worked. Just about everyone I know was only required to do nights or weekends sparingly, and almost always because they fell behind on an assignment they had known about for a while, not because some associate dumped shit on them on a Friday afternoon.

Okay. I am talking about people who worked at SullCrom, DPW, Quinn, K&E NY, Fried Frank, WLRK, Milbank, Proskauer Rose. Based on that sample, I assumed anyone working in NY over a summer could expect to have shit dumped on them that would require them to work on weekends as summers.

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

[IAFG]

It really does seem to depend on who you talk to and where they've worked. Just about everyone I know was only required to do nights or weekends sparingly, and almost always because they fell behind on an assignment they had known about for a while, not because some associate dumped shit on them on a Friday afternoon.

Okay. I am talking about people who worked at SullCrom, DPW, Quinn, K&E NY, Fried Frank, WLRK, Milbank, Proskauer Rose. Based on that sample, I assumed anyone working in NY over a summer could expect to have shit dumped on them that would require them to work on weekends as summers.

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

?? It's not a pissing match. You said it depends on where they work. Like most people at a T14, I know people who worked at a pretty big variety of V100s, so I am not sure where you were going with that.

[Ludo!]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

[dixiecupdrinking]

It really does seem to depend on who you talk to and where they've worked. Just about everyone I know was only required to do nights or weekends sparingly, and almost always because they fell behind on an assignment they had known about for a while, not because some associate dumped shit on them on a Friday afternoon.

Okay. I am talking about people who worked at SullCrom, DPW, Quinn, K&E NY, Fried Frank, WLRK, Milbank, Proskauer Rose. Based on that sample, I assumed anyone working in NY over a summer could expect to have shit dumped on them that would require them to work on weekends as summers.

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

?? It's not a pissing match. You said it depends on where they work. Like most people at a T14, I know people who worked at a pretty big variety of V100s, so I am not sure where you were going with that.

Not interested in naming a bunch of firms to support my point.

[Old Gregg]

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

The mere fact that there are legitimate anecdotes of differing experiences means that your expectations were shit. Enjoy the real world. If you want your nights and weekends, go work somewhere else.

[Old Gregg]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

This. If you'r pissed that you have to work nights and weekends, work at this person's firm.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

The mere fact that there are legitimate anecdotes of differing experiences means that your expectations were shit. Enjoy the real world. If you want your nights and weekends, go work somewhere else.

We are not even talking about me here, or my expectations, though in fact I haven't had to do any late nights or weekends at my NYC firm. I'm just sticking up for other people ITT who are airing some of their grievances about their situations to have people like you drop in here to shit on them. I'm glad that being a second year NYC BigLaw associate or whatever your deal is makes you an expert on the "real world" but it doesn't mean you have to act like a jackass.

[Old Gregg]

I was trying to provide a graceful way to end this conversation; I'm not going to get in a pissing match about who knows people at what firms. Lots of people in NYC, let alone in other cities, go through their summers without having to do this kind of work and it's not crazy for someone to expect that will be their situation. That's all I have to say about it.

The mere fact that there are legitimate anecdotes of differing experiences means that your expectations were shit. Enjoy the real world. If you want your nights and weekends, go work somewhere else.

We are not even talking about me here, or my expectations, though in fact I haven't had to do any late nights or weekends at my NYC firm. I'm just sticking up for other people ITT who are airing some of their grievances about their situations to have people like you drop in here to shit on them. I'm glad that being a second year NYC BigLaw associate or whatever your deal is makes you an expert on the "real world" but it doesn't mean you have to act like a jackass.

I'm sure they don't need you to stick up for them. Enjoy your summer.

[keg411]

Honestly, I had junior associates at other firms that it's "crazy and gunner-ish" to come in on weekends or late night and that they never had to do it even in the worst of the recession (although maybe there wasn't enough work and so that's why they never had to put in crazy time over that summer). So when it happened to me, I actually was surprised. Especially since my firm definitely isn't one with a deadly-hours reputation and my assignment was definitely not in a practice area that generally requires nights/weekends.

(Also, by nights, I mean "free ride home"/"seamless web" qualifying hours; not just "any time past 5 pm")

[PMan99]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

+1. NYC = TTT.

[de5igual]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

+1. NYC = TTT.

BigTEXX is where it's at.

(Although I am doing some work on the weekend)

[r6_philly]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

Actually, better pay (less taxes) and lower COL.

[Anonymous User]

Received word that there will be no-offers coming in our summer class (big law satellite office). A partner said even though the company line is "We dont take more SAs than we can absorb," they count on at least one SA each summer to be a dud. Unfortunately, he said there were no duds in our class of seven. Good times.

[Anonymous User]

So glad I'm not in NYC. Same pay and I feel like I'm at summer camp

To be fair, my NYC firm has been pretty close to a paid vacation. Only a couple of us in a class of 40 have had to stay ridiculously late or come in on weekends. Otherwise, we get work a 5-year-old could do and are out of the office by 5:30.

[Anonymous User]

Received word that there will be no-offers coming in our summer class (big law satellite office). A partner said even though the company line is "We dont take more SAs than we can absorb," they count on at least one SA each summer to be a dud. Unfortunately, he said there were no duds in our class of seven. Good times.

That sucks. I am in a satellite office with a summer class of seven.

What area or region are you?

[ruski]

it doesn't matter which firm you're at, i know plenty of guys who summered at v5s and their summer stint was a vacation. it just depends on which juniors you end up working under. some like to take advantage over summers more so than others. i got crushed my summer, and i think you do have a right to complain when everybody in you're entire class is going home at 6 and you got stuck working for some a-hole leaving at 3am at least twice a week.

and as for the made-up assignments, i think that was more referring to made-up deadlines. i had to come in to finish something on a sunday b/c i was told it was urgent and to have it done asap. it ending up sitting on the associates desk for a week and a half. this is the type of work that people complain about.

[Anonymous User]

Its not that I mind working late if necessary, but I don't see this as necessary. I'm stuck with this first year associate who has no clue what she is doing, is super OCD, and is afraid to even ask the lead partner if we can add another summer on to help out. I can accept working late, or working a weekend when there is work that absolutely needs to be done. But here, I'm just at the whim of this totally confused 1st year, who thinks that staying till 3AM will somehow impress her superiors, even when its completely unproductive.

[de5igual]

Its not that I mind working late if necessary, but I don't see this as necessary. I'm stuck with this first year associate who has no clue what she is doing, is super OCD, and is afraid to even ask the lead partner if we can add another summer on to help out. I can accept working late, or working a weekend when there is work that absolutely needs to be done. But here, I'm just at the whim of this totally confused 1st year, who thinks that staying till 3AM will somehow impress her superiors, even when its completely unproductive.

Do you not have a mentor to whom you can mention all this? I meet with my mentor to go over my projects once a week (e.g., to go over status, what it's like working with certain people, what I find interesting, etc). Seems like you could do the same. If not a mentor, surely someone in recruiting/scheduling?