CLS EIP 2011 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Just putting this out there to offset some of the negativity: callbacks are still coming through for plenty of firms (yes, even NY). I received a callback today and I know of at least one other person who did too (for a different firm). It's not over until you actually get a rejection letter and just because something was done one way a year before, doesn't mean it's being done that way this year.

A bunch of firms my friends and I have had callbacks with have said they are looking to hire a much larger class this year (because they underestimated their needs) and OCS mentioned at least once that firms last year had to come back to ask for more resumes (because they hadn't given out enough callbacks/offers that were accepted)-mostly because firms are off their game because they got used to only hiring from the top the couple of years prior (which is why some people have 15+ CBs and others very few). Firms will wise up soon if they're interested in filling their needs from CLS, HLS, NYU, etc.

Point is, nothing is over yet.

[Anonymous User]

People that already had a CB at Paul Weiss: did you know in advance who your interviewers were? Did you get an email about it/how soon before the interview?

Yes but you have to email the recruiting department in the afternoon the day before to get their names. I don't think they inform you automatically.

[Anonymous User]

dings from king & spalding, hughes hubbard, and davis polk by mail today

[Anonymous User]

Still waiting on Latham and Ropes - has anybody gotten rejected by either one yet?

I'm probably cancelling a Latham CB so hope they'll pass it on to you. They probably have a hold group.

interesting. why cancelling, seems questionable?

i'm told they do not have a hold group.

Umm, because I don't want to live in constant fear of unemployment? Too bad because I really adore them but feel like it would be terribly imprudent to choose them with other V10 options.

[Anonymous User]

Just putting this out there to offset some of the negativity: callbacks are still coming through for plenty of firms (yes, even NY). I received a callback today and I know of at least one other person who did too (for a different firm). It's not over until you actually get a rejection letter and just because something was done one way a year before, doesn't mean it's being done that way this year.

A bunch of firms my friends and I have had callbacks with have said they are looking to hire a much larger class this year (because they underestimated their needs) and OCS mentioned at least once that firms last year had to come back to ask for more resumes (because they hadn't given out enough callbacks/offers that were accepted)-mostly because firms are off their game because they got used to only hiring from the top the couple of years prior (which is why some people have 15+ CBs and others very few). Firms will wise up soon if they're interested in filling their needs from CLS, HLS, NYU, etc.

Point is, nothing is over yet.

god, i hope this is true. still crickets from several NY firms for me.

[Anonymous User]

OMG waiting is just torture. I try not to freak out about these things, but it is starting to get to me.

[Anonymous User]

OMG waiting is just torture. I try not to freak out about these things, but it is starting to get to me.

this shit is brutal

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

I did them last year. Their CB is a curse. You have to buy case in point, study, brush up on your math, and go crazy... Their paper test is a pain in the rear. And you have to go through 3 rounds of interviews. Brutal.

But, if you make it through - McKinsey is an amazing way to segue out of the legal profession and into an executive job...

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

+1. Actually gonna have to prepare for this, i guess.

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

+1. Actually gonna have to prepare for this, i guess.

+2. I would give my left testicle to work for McKinsey, so getting this is pretty awesome.

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

+1. Actually gonna have to prepare for this, i guess.

+2. I would give my left testicle to work for McKinsey, so getting this is pretty awesome.

I hear that they only take right testicles, so you are out of luck....

[Anonymous User]

Any cravath news from saturday/last week?

?

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

+1. Actually gonna have to prepare for this, i guess.

+2. I would give my left testicle to work for McKinsey, so getting this is pretty awesome.

Good luck! I summered at Mckinsey in undergrad and it was an awesome experience -- definitely prepare though, because their CB --> Offer ratio is extremely low. Also, scope out how many people their offices are hoping to take when you decide where you want the CB to be -- your office choice has a potentially huge impact on your chances.

[Anonymous User]

Probably nobody cares, but McKinsey CB via email.

+1. Actually gonna have to prepare for this, i guess.

+2. I would give my left testicle to work for McKinsey, so getting this is pretty awesome.

Good luck! I summered at Mckinsey in undergrad and it was an awesome experience -- definitely prepare though, because their CB --> Offer ratio is extremely low. Also, scope out how many people their offices are hoping to take when you decide where you want the CB to be -- your office choice has a potentially huge impact on your chances.

Is there a NALP equivalent to seeing how many summer places they are looking to give per office for McKinsey? Or are you saying that that's a question that we should ask them personally? I assume the New York office is quite large...

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had a Cadwalader callback yet?

[Anonymous User]

Is there a NALP equivalent to seeing how many summer places they are looking to give per office for McKinsey? Or are you saying that that's a question that we should ask them personally? I assume the New York office is quite large...

No, there's no NALP equivalent. And that's kind of an awkward question to straight up ask them. Best is to feel it out from people you independently know who work for the firm and are aware of recruiting targets.

NY is the largest office, but that doesn't mean it has the best chances, because everyone wants to be in New York. A couple of years ago some of the Texas offices were much easier because business was booming (oil & gas) and relatively few people wanted to go there.

[itbdvorm]

Still waiting on Latham and Ropes - has anybody gotten rejected by either one yet?

I'm probably cancelling a Latham CB so hope they'll pass it on to you. They probably have a hold group.

interesting. why cancelling, seems questionable?

i'm told they do not have a hold group.

Umm, because I don't want to live in constant fear of unemployment? Too bad because I really adore them but feel like it would be terribly imprudent to choose them with other V10 options.

FWIW, Latham was not even close to the only firm in the V10 to have let people go over the past few years. With perhaps one exception I know of people who got fired / laid off / pushed out at virtually every level from virtually all of them. Latham just had the worst PR move IMHO

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, Latham was not even close to the only firm in the V10 to have let people go over the past few years. With perhaps one exception I know of people who got fired / laid off / pushed out at virtually every level from virtually all of them. Latham just had the worst PR move IMHO

Really? You can name people who got laid off at Wachtell, DPW, Cleary, Simpson and Covington?

Even if there were one or two who were quietly pushed out (ostensibly for performance reasons), which is something that frankly happens every year anyways, that's way different than laying off 190 associates in one fell swoop, including a large portion of your first year class.

[itbdvorm]

FWIW, Latham was not even close to the only firm in the V10 to have let people go over the past few years. With perhaps one exception I know of people who got fired / laid off / pushed out at virtually every level from virtually all of them. Latham just had the worst PR move IMHO

Really? You can name people who got laid off at Wachtell, DPW, Cleary, Simpson and Covington?

Even if there were one or two who were quietly pushed out (ostensibly for performance reasons), which is something that frankly happens every year anyways, that's way different than laying off 190 associates in one fell swoop, including a large portion of your first year class.

Wachtell's the one exception. The rest, yes, I can.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, Latham was not even close to the only firm in the V10 to have let people go over the past few years. With perhaps one exception I know of people who got fired / laid off / pushed out at virtually every level from virtually all of them. Latham just had the worst PR move IMHO

Really? You can name people who got laid off at Wachtell, DPW, Cleary, Simpson and Covington?

Even if there were one or two who were quietly pushed out (ostensibly for performance reasons), which is something that frankly happens every year anyways, that's way different than laying off 190 associates in one fell swoop, including a large portion of your first year class.

Wachtell's the one exception. The rest, yes, I can.

Regardless, wouldn't you rather bet you won't end up being one of the worst few of 100+ summers or 1st years at a more stable firm that at least pays lip service to performance-based terminations?

Also, if people in our position don't hesitate to jump on an offer from a firm that did this so recently just because recruiting happens to be on the upswing for our class, it sends a clear message that there are no consequences to treating junior associates as disposable. This is a 2-way selection process, and if Latham has no trouble recruiting everyone they'd like or getting a similar callback/offer yield to their peer firms, it sends a message that could undermine everyone's future job security if the economy falters again. Aside from all of the cut-throat competition happening among us right now, we owe it to each other in the long run to not let employers think we don't care about these factors. So yeah, I'd take Latham over some (not all!) of the lower-ranked firms I originally bid on, but now that I know I'm lucky enough to have other options, no way.

[Anonymous User]

Just putting this out there to offset some of the negativity: callbacks are still coming through for plenty of firms (yes, even NY). I received a callback today and I know of at least one other person who did too (for a different firm). It's not over until you actually get a rejection letter and just because something was done one way a year before, doesn't mean it's being done that way this year.

Not to be a downer, but it can definitely be "over" despite you not actually getting a rejection letter. I went through EIP 2 years ago and I had a surprising amount of firms that never sent a rejection letter/email or any other form of communication after the screening interview.

[itbdvorm]

FWIW, Latham was not even close to the only firm in the V10 to have let people go over the past few years. With perhaps one exception I know of people who got fired / laid off / pushed out at virtually every level from virtually all of them. Latham just had the worst PR move IMHO

Really? You can name people who got laid off at Wachtell, DPW, Cleary, Simpson and Covington?

Even if there were one or two who were quietly pushed out (ostensibly for performance reasons), which is something that frankly happens every year anyways, that's way different than laying off 190 associates in one fell swoop, including a large portion of your first year class.

Wachtell's the one exception. The rest, yes, I can.

Regardless, wouldn't you rather bet you won't end up being one of the worst few of 100+ summers or 1st years at a more stable firm that at least pays lip service to performance-based terminations?

Also, if people in our position don't hesitate to jump on an offer from a firm that did this so recently just because recruiting happens to be on the upswing for our class, it sends a clear message that there are no consequences to treating junior associates as disposable. This is a 2-way selection process, and if Latham has no trouble recruiting everyone they'd like or getting a similar callback/offer yield to their peer firms, it sends a message that could undermine everyone's future job security if the economy falters again. Aside from all of the cut-throat competition happening among us right now, we owe it to each other in the long run to not let employers think we don't care about these factors. So yeah, I'd take Latham over some (not all!) of the lower-ranked firms I originally bid on, but now that I know I'm lucky enough to have other options, no way.

I get what you're saying being in your shoes. I really do. Just know that from my vantagepoint I saw some of the "safe" firms you mention screw people just as badly (if not worse) and somehow avoid the PR hit by flying under the radar. Remember, just because abovethelaw didn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Anonymous User]

I get what you're saying being in your shoes. I really do. Just know that from my vantagepoint I saw some of the "safe" firms you mention screw people just as badly (if not worse) and somehow avoid the PR hit by flying under the radar. Remember, just because abovethelaw didn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I don't really think it's screwing people if it's truly a performance-based termination (which, by the way, happened even in good times). If people aren't hacking it, they get transitioned out. Not to mention under performance based-terminations, you aren't just let go immediately (as was the case with Latham) - you are given 6 months when you're still "working" at the firm to try to find another job.

Also, I have friends who worked through the recession at three of those firms, and categorically deny there was anything but normal performance-based attrition. Just because you report it doesn't mean it did happen.

[Anonymous User]

Just putting this out there to offset some of the negativity: callbacks are still coming through for plenty of firms (yes, even NY). I received a callback today and I know of at least one other person who did too (for a different firm). It's not over until you actually get a rejection letter and just because something was done one way a year before, doesn't mean it's being done that way this year.

Not to be a downer, but it can definitely be "over" despite you not actually getting a rejection letter. I went through EIP 2 years ago and I had a surprising amount of firms that never sent a rejection letter/email or any other form of communication after the screening interview.

That was very debbie downer-esque.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/68225/saturda ... bie-downer