The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:42 pm

Anyone ever left an interview and wished they could crawl directly into bed and hide for three days to mourn? Ugh, what a day.

skrubba5025 · Post by **skrubba5025** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:52 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:Anyone ever left an interview and wished they could crawl directly into bed and hide for three days to mourn? Ugh, what a day.

I did just last month, ended up making it through to the next round. We're our own worst critics, keep your head up.

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:59 pm

skrubba5025 wrote:
crysmissmichelle wrote:Anyone ever left an interview and wished they could crawl directly into bed and hide for three days to mourn? Ugh, what a day.
I did just last month, ended up making it through to the next round. We're our own worst critics, keep your head up.

Thank you. I needed that.

snowpeach06 · Post by **snowpeach06** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:11 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:Anyone ever left an interview and wished they could crawl directly into bed and hide for three days to mourn? Ugh, what a day.

I did. Later got my dream internship. Weather you do or not, no point in worrying about it - you can't change the past. Good luck!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in May from a Vandy/USC/UCLA/Texas tier school somewhere between median and top quarter of the class. Still unemployed and waiting for bar results. Loans come due next month (luckily only about $60k or so and I have some savings). Received several rejection letters from law firms last week after not even getting interviews. Worked in-house at a publicly traded company last summer, but they have no openings for entry level attorneys at the moment. Interested in corporate transactional work. Starting to feel really fucked.
To the extent possible, develop an interest in something else as well

The corporate transactional ship pretty much only takes passengers at 2l OCI
Not the anon above, but in a similar situation (unemployed waiting for bar results). This is not comforting at all. I went to law school only wanting to do transactional work, and I have no desire to litigate. Trying to secure a non-JD/JD-preferred position in investment & finance, but as a K-JD I don't have any experience to fall back on. Was hoping my JD would give me a boost over fresh college grads, but all I've gotten are rejections. Don't know what to do at this point :-/
A JD is rarely a boost because law school hardly teaches you anything substantive. Being an attorney might give you some credibility for a non-legal job, but it's not the same as a recent grad with no experience. The above post is spot on. Most major transactional work is done by large firms and that ship sails after 2L. Transactional jobs outside of biglaw are few and far between. There are some transactional boutiques but many aren't looking to hire grads with no experience. To be honest, your job search is going to be very difficult if you keep looking with such a narrow focus.

Many actual lawyers don't end up practicing what they thought they would before/while in law school - they end up practicing the area of law they get a job in. For you and some of the other unemployed Valers, you need to broaden your search and not restrict your own potential opportunities with snowflake notions like "I want to practice only corporate M&A work." The market is tough, be flexible.

OP here. Yep. I'm going to have to start broadening my search within the next couple of weeks even if it means hating my life. Sigh..

edit: Perhaps I should pursue business/commercial litigation. Seems like the next best option.

edit 2: Landed a couple in-house corporate counsel interviews. Will report back.

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:54 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
crysmissmichelle wrote:Anyone ever left an interview and wished they could crawl directly into bed and hide for three days to mourn? Ugh, what a day.
I did. Later got my dream internship. Weather you do or not, no point in worrying about it - you can't change the past. Good luck!

Thank you, I'll get over it; it just felt horrible.

Gefuehlsecht · Post by **Gefuehlsecht** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:59 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:If any of you were following my previous saga, I have official notice that I only have a paying job until Nov. 15th. Ugh. In preparation, I've been applying EVERYWHERE. I have two interviews coming up. But, both are for jobs super outside of law. One is community relations and one is for press at a preforming arts center. While the latter actually sound super fun, pay is... well... $37k in DC (which is basically poverty), and it's so far outside anything I ever thought I'd do. I'm kind of confused if I should even be wasting my time applying to jobs that are SO unrelated. I feel like once I step outside of law and policy, I'm probably not getting back in, but does anyone know if that's the case?

It is hard to say. Is there any way you can spin this experience into something legal related? Do these jobs allow you for enough time on the side to pursue legal matters, maybe in a volunteer capacity?
I think the main factor you should be concerned about is time. If you remain in these positions for an extended time period, it would worry me a little bit if I were to spot the gap on your resume. If you're there for a few months because you have to eat, well, even some old folks like me have heard about the state of the legal job market at this point and probably won't hold it against you.

However, even if you do take one of these jobs, I do strongly suggest to you that you'll find a way to keep your legal skills sharp. It is pretty amazing how quickly you lose and forget certain things if you don't practice for a while. This is not an octogenarian joke.

Good luck to you though. Something will come along.

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:56 am

Does anyone have any information about how Ogletree Deakins hires outside OCI? They've had a particular position posted for over a month and I applied within the last two weeks--immediately after getting bar results. I'm starting to get interviews elsewhere and am worried I'm going to have to accept something else before I get closure on their process.

Are they a company that hires only graduates of certain law schools?

ZyzzBrah · Post by **ZyzzBrah** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:04 pm

^^ have you sent a follow-up email?

thebosstronaut · Post by **thebosstronaut** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Does anyone have any tips for a 3L looking for specific IP related positions (focus on patent law, prosecution or litigation)? It seems like a crapshoot to just keep googling firms. Are there any better IP/patent job methods than cold e-mailing?

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:31 pm

ZyzzBrah wrote:^^ have you sent a follow-up email?

I haven't yet. I'm worried it might be too early--I don't want to push it, this is my #1 choice of all my applications right now. I'm worried that I need to wait until I have an offer (?)

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:36 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:Does anyone have any information about how Ogletree Deakins hires outside OCI? They've had a particular position posted for over a month and I applied within the last two weeks--immediately after getting bar results. I'm starting to get interviews elsewhere and am worried I'm going to have to accept something else before I get closure on their process.

Are they a company that hires only graduates of certain law schools?

They don't care that much about school name, bu they are extraordinarily grade selective. I'm talking really doesn't care for anyone not on law review selective.

Dr. Review · Post by **Dr. Review** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:37 pm

thebosstronaut wrote:Are there any better IP/patent job methods than cold e-mailing?

Not really, no. I didn't get an offer until March during 3L, but before that I was having to mass-mail and network just like any other unemployed 3L. You could try going to networking events/CLEs in your area geared towards IP attorneys, but otherwise it is kind of a crap shoot.

lisjjen · Post by **lisjjen** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:39 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:If any of you were following my previous saga, I have official notice that I only have a paying job until Nov. 15th. Ugh. In preparation, I've been applying EVERYWHERE. I have two interviews coming up. But, both are for jobs super outside of law. One is community relations and one is for press at a preforming arts center. While the latter actually sound super fun, pay is... well... $37k in DC (which is basically poverty), and it's so far outside anything I ever thought I'd do. I'm kind of confused if I should even be wasting my time applying to jobs that are SO unrelated. I feel like once I step outside of law and policy, I'm probably not getting back in, but does anyone know if that's the case?

From the people I've talked to, even doing policy before doing law makes it really difficult to go into law. My advice is if you want to be a lawyer, wait it out until you can find a job where you learn how to be a lawyer, because law school didn't teach us how to do that.

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:57 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
crysmissmichelle wrote:Does anyone have any information about how Ogletree Deakins hires outside OCI? They've had a particular position posted for over a month and I applied within the last two weeks--immediately after getting bar results. I'm starting to get interviews elsewhere and am worried I'm going to have to accept something else before I get closure on their process.

Are they a company that hires only graduates of certain law schools?
They don't care that much about school name, bu they are extraordinarily grade selective. I'm talking really doesn't care for anyone not on law review selective.

Does that possibly vary by practice group? The city and practice group I'm looking at only has one associate marked "Law Review" and no honors designations in the educational history bios of any of the associates (some have honors designations on undergraduate degrees, but none on JD). My GPA is not bad, but is not Law Review material.

ZyzzBrah · Post by **ZyzzBrah** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:11 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:
ZyzzBrah wrote:^^ have you sent a follow-up email?
I haven't yet. I'm worried it might be too early--I don't want to push it, this is my #1 choice of all my applications right now. I'm worried that I need to wait until I have an offer (?)

fwiw, i applied to a firm, didnt hear anything for 3 weeks so I followed up and got an interview the next day. I don't think its necessary you have an offer--but having an offer may help once you get an interview

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:46 pm

Just landed a decent gig recently. However, I failed the bar, my position at the place with the offer is fine despite failing the bar. I have another interview coming up soon, any tips on how to handle the failing the bar issue if/when it surfaces in the interview?

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:50 pm

ZyzzBrah wrote:
crysmissmichelle wrote:
ZyzzBrah wrote:^^ have you sent a follow-up email?
I haven't yet. I'm worried it might be too early--I don't want to push it, this is my #1 choice of all my applications right now. I'm worried that I need to wait until I have an offer (?)
fwiw, i applied to a firm, didnt hear anything for 3 weeks so I followed up and got an interview the next day. I don't think its necessary you have an offer--but having an offer may help once you get an interview

How did you do it? Was your email just "I'm following up to see if you need more information" or requesting a timeline for hiring?

ZyzzBrah · Post by **ZyzzBrah** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:32 pm

emailed the hiring contact for the office

Good afternoon Ms. X,

I recently applied/contacted/etc ... in response to the [whatever position]. I am contacting you to [ask whether positions filed/theres a timeline/etc]. Thank you for your time,

Sincerely,

zyzzbrah

i doubt it'l hurt you ever, at the worst itl just speed up a ding you would have already gotten. Also, I got a response like "we haven't made a decision yet" and replied thanking them for their time. Got a phone call soon after. (didnt get the job, but the fact I landed an interview was odd given that my stats arent that impressive)

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:04 pm

Is it the general consensus for mass mailing to use USPS? E-mails are not as effective?

crysmissmichelle · Post by **crysmissmichelle** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:04 pm

ZyzzBrah wrote:emailed the hiring contact for the office

Good afternoon Ms. X,

I recently applied/contacted/etc ... in response to the [whatever position]. I am contacting you to [ask whether positions filed/theres a timeline/etc]. Thank you for your time,

Sincerely,

zyzzbrah
i doubt it'l hurt you ever, at the worst itl just speed up a ding you would have already gotten. Also, I got a response like "we haven't made a decision yet" and replied thanking them for their time. Got a phone call soon after. (didnt get the job, but the fact I landed an interview was odd given that my stats arent that impressive)

Thanks!

baal hadad · Post by **baal hadad** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it the general consensus for mass mailing to use USPS? E-mails are not as effective?

don't snail mail

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:21 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it the general consensus for mass mailing to use USPS? E-mails are not as effective?
don't snail mail

Really? Hm. Do you put the cover letter in the body e-mail or attach as PDF/Doc?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:25 pm

I really wish Wilson Elser would stop spamming job boards with the same postings every damn day.

Holly Golightly · Post by **Holly Golightly** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it the general consensus for mass mailing to use USPS? E-mails are not as effective?
don't snail mail
Really? Hm. Do you put the cover letter in the body e-mail or attach as PDF/Doc?

I always attached cover letter as a PDF and wrote something short in the email, i.e. "Hi, I'm HGL, a 2013 graduate of NU. I'm interested in ______. My resume, cover letter, and writing sample (or whatever) are attached."

And NEVER attached .doc files to an email. Always PDF. That should go without saying.

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