2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

As a 2019, I can't complain too much. Was hoping for 35k but am not going to stress 5k.

These bonuses really ought to be directed toward 2017 higher, because they are the most difficult associates to replace. I guess you can toss 2018 into the mix now as well, but those at my level and lower should defer to our more senior colleagues to some extent. Feel bad for y'all. Seems like a slap in the face.

[Anonymous User]

Cleary matched Cravath scale (dogshit)

[Anonymous User]

Cleary matched

[Lesion of Doom]

I have a feeling everyone will be rushing to match "in time for the holiday" in an attempt to impose this bullshit as market.

Let's hope one of the more upstart firms shakes it up some.

[splitmuch]

My guess is we get a run of matches today as people try to embrace the CravaTTTh scale

[Anonymous User]

I have a feeling everyone will be rushing to match "in time for the holiday" in an attempt to impose this bullshit as market.

Let's hope one of the more upstart firms shakes it up some.

Come on Neil Barr!!!!

[Anonymous User]

Could Zaretsky be more tone deaf?

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/first-mover-on-bonus/

Which is interesting since I'm pretty sure a lot of the ATL writers read this site for updates and then go out and try to verify them after (and if not they should be because 99.99% of comp news breaks here before ATL). You'd think she'd realize no associates are happy with these TTT bonuses.

Maybe that's why they thought it was a good bonus... Cravath's announcement is in line with or beats expectations from the first ~20 pages of this thread.

EDIT: Actually the consensus didn't really shift until after CSM announced - up til then most people were expecting a minor bump in EOY bonus plus the announcement of a Fall retention bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Fine to increase the grid only marginally if they can't sustain it in the coming years. But then a special bonus is needed, and needs to be announced now before associates secure positions elsewhere and are ready to hand in their notice in January. There'll otherwise be a mass exodus like never seen before just when firms think they can continue increasing their revenue by 10-20% year on year.

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

[splitmuch]

Could Zaretsky be more tone deaf?

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/first-mover-on-bonus/

Which is interesting since I'm pretty sure a lot of the ATL writers read this site for updates and then go out and try to verify them after (and if not they should be because 99.99% of comp news breaks here before ATL). You'd think she'd realize no associates are happy with these TTT bonuses.

Maybe that's why they thought it was a good bonus... Cravath's announcement is in line with or beats expectations from the first ~20 pages of this thread.

EDIT: Actually the consensus didn't really shift until after CSM announced - up til then most people were expecting a minor bump in EOY bonus plus the announcement of a Fall retention bonus.

Isn't the "plus the announcement of a Fall retention bonus" a pretty big factor? I think if it were the minor bump plus say a 50k retention bonus people would be happier...

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

Ah yes, rational market bootlicking.

[Anonymous User]

Ah yes the perfectly efficient and non distorted market where every single firm just happens to pay exactly the same bonus and salary every year…

[Anonymous User]

I woke up this morning disgusted; I honestly can't believe this. I'm a senior associate and with my hours + how I'm billed out I have to be bringing my firm (a V10) close to $2.5m in revenue. I've also spent the last two years in COVID basically working all hours from my house with little kids, which has been maddening. We are all burned out. I was expecting a scale about 1.5x of last year's recognizing how healthy the firm is and also how badly people are doing mental-health wise. Cravath's idea that bumping the scale by 10% is an acceptable move is so tone deaf. Even if DPW or STB jumps in with another 10k kicker we're just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms under these conditions. This has seriously made me consider looking in-house in January I'm just done with this shit.

As a midlevel at a v10 with kids in an apartment who has been quite busy this year, I sympathize and suggest doing what you need to reclaim your mental health (including taking a less stressful job if that's what it takes). I strongly suspect that an extra 50 grand wouldn't make you feel nearly as good as a healthy outlook and a grateful attitude would, but I acknowledge that it is easier to make an extra 50 grand than it is to change one's outlook. The market is the only mechanism for determining the value of laboring power there is, so your comment that we're "just not in the realm of where we should be in terms of compensating associates for what they're generating for the firms" is either a misplaced moral plea or a simple misunderstanding of economics. You may decide that it is not worth it for you to stay at your v10, but the probability of you making that decision is most certainly being priced into your compensation.

lmfao a little condescension and a lot of supposition = classic TLS bullshit, thanks for that. We are in the middle of a transition in the biglaw model, whether you're aware of it or not. Equity profits are being supercharged at the same time that the bridge to equity is being drawn up. The compensation ratio between associates:partners is wider than it's ever been. And I have personally seen the attrition numbers for my firm in '21 and they are horrific (although we're bringing in a large number of attorneys at the same time to try to staunch the flow).

Have you ever sat in a comp. committee meeting or at least heard the gossip that comes out of one? Nothing is "priced in." Firms are not managed by economists. They aren't calculating the probability of departure except at a very gut level nor are they acknowledging how much things are changing under their feet as attrition rises to massive levels in the industry. They're ordinary human beings (albeit with another 10-20 years of experience) sort of winging it while trying to get as much $ as they can.

We can't staff cases right now. We are turning down mid-8-figure reps because we literally don't have the capacity. Some firms are ultimately going to get this and get their comp. right to address the problem and others aren't and the latter will ultimately be able to continue to thrive.

[glitched]

If my firm matches, I'm one hundred percent going in-house.

[Anonymous User]

K&E laterals getting paid $400k signing bonuses and we get an extra $10-15k....guess its time to be one with the efficient market and leave.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if this is the start of the de facto comp splitting between litigation and transactional associates. Lots of transactional associates received upgraded comp this year either through laterals or retention bonuses, and that's probably the name of the game until rates go up and transactions slow. So maybe we see a new game of "we'll marginally increase bonuses every year and then just give more money to whichever practice area is hotter."

[Anonymous User]

My guess is we get a run of matches today as people try to embrace the CravaTTTh scale

This. Nobody is going to move up the scale a day or two before Thanksgiving. The next two days will be for matches from firms hoping the CravaTTTh scale sticks.

FWIW, I actually this the CravaTTTh scale will be the scale this year. Sucks, but I think that is where this is heading.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if this is the start of the de facto comp splitting between litigation and transactional associates. Lots of transactional associates received upgraded comp this year either through laterals or retention bonuses, and that's probably the name of the game until rates go up and transactions slow. So maybe we see a new game of "we'll marginally increase bonuses every year and then just give more money to whichever practice area is hotter."

This would be such a clusterfuck. Anyone with a long enough memory realizes that transactional and litigation balance each other and have up and down periods depending on economic conditions. E.g., our restructuring group was red hot first 9 months of 2020 and carried a lot of the firm. This year their average billables are like 1,700. But because we have a long memory and understand things cycle no one gives a fuck and it all balances.

[TUwave]

My guess is we get a run of matches today as people try to embrace the CravaTTTh scale

This. Nobody is going to move up the scale a day or two before Thanksgiving. The next two days will be for matches from firms hoping the CravaTTTh scale sticks.

FWIW, I actually this the CravaTTTh scale will be the scale this year. Sucks, but I think that is where this is heading.

The only hope is DPW, if they match it is what it is and January will be a shitshow.

[Anonymous User]

So is the Mintz special bonus just getting ignored?

[Anonymous User]

My guess is we get a run of matches today as people try to embrace the CravaTTTh scale

This. Nobody is going to move up the scale a day or two before Thanksgiving. The next two days will be for matches from firms hoping the CravaTTTh scale sticks.

FWIW, I actually this the CravaTTTh scale will be the scale this year. Sucks, but I think that is where this is heading.

The only hope is DPW, if they match it is what it is and January will be a shitshow.

DPW, STB, and Millbank all hold the prospect of beating the shit Cravath scale. There are a lot of hope spots still.

[Anonymous User]

So is the Mintz special bonus just getting ignored?

Genuinely trying not to be an asshole about this but as was said pages ago no one will give a shit what Mintz does or doesn't do it's only when the V25 starts moving that people listen.

[Anonymous User]

So is the Mintz special bonus just getting ignored?

Good point. Highest compensated associates (other than WLRK) for billing 2,000 hours are Mintz associates. Mintz V2, Cravath receiving all 1s across the board next survey.

[Anonymous User]

Whelp, it's all but official: this was my last full year in BigLaw. It was a good run, y'all. I bet the in-house market is going to be overwhelmed in Q1 next year.

[Anonymous User]

Yea I’m punishing the shit out of Cravath in that survey. V2 my ass. They’ve gotten to the end of their ancient prestige rope.