NY to 200k?! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms believe is an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID. When one or both of those returns to normal, the special bonus spigot will be shut off, but I don't think that happens before we get at least one more round of those bonuses next calendar year.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp in 2022 will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms will expect to be an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID.

Agree with this take. Most likely scenario is any $$ that would be considered for year end bonuses will instead go to special bonuses in ~April and ~August as that's the only way to increase retention.

[Anonymous User]

I know this has been asked but bumping for any thoughts on when lit boutiques (think susman/KH, etc) will match or whether they will just add to the above market bonuses?

Hueston Hennigan matched DPW scale (205 for c/o 2020), consistent with their typical market salary + above-market bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Sheppard match.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms believe is an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID. When one or both of those returns to normal, the special bonus spigot will be shut off, but I don't think that happens before we get at least one more round of those bonuses next calendar year.

I don't know if you are still specifically talking about Goodwin but I think the initial poster was referring to the above market bonuses they give. ~40% of associates who met hours last year received above-market. Question is if they would go even higher above market this year for high achievers. There seems to be a slight break from market lockstep created by these firms, like K&E especially, giving above market bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Willkie matched. Stubs get 205 also.

[Anonymous User]

When are these Skadden retention bonuses coming?

[SOSBigLaw]

Morgan Lewis match.

[Anonymous User]

Surely the 200k and 202.5k firms must match the 205... right?

[Anonymous User]

Munger Tolles matched DPW scale.

[Anonymous User]

No one is raising, will be calls across the board. Haven't been following all 30+ pages of this thread but unless STB dives in with a raise at the midlevel+ bracket we're not going to see any developments. Rest of the V10 and usual suspects (do not make this into a WilliamsConnolly and JD thread pls) in the v30 will match and then it's a question about what happens throughout the rest of the v50.

[SOSBigLaw]

Morgan Lewis match.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys think Shearman will match? Their revenue dropped like 11% last year. Hopefully they recovered well enough to match.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, the NY/V10 drama is pretty much over. Time for those of us in V20-50 to start sweating.

Seems like the realistic focus here rather than waiting for a hero to re-raise the scale (not happening). Let’s see which of the firms on the margin match first.

I think we have to go deeper down the list.

In the V20-V50 range, only Williams & Connolly, K&L and maybe Hogan don’t match.

I mean, King & Spalding, Perkins, Arnold & Porter, Covington? Original anon here and I am mostly worried about DC's Holy Trinity of Cheap. (Excluding the obvious Jones Day, which I suppose is Satan in this extended analogy)

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Are we talking about, what, $300 all in after taxes w/r/t stub matches? Just expense a few dinners to catch up

The smart ones already order their dinner at 5:30 and walk out with it, so there is no more blood to squeeze except to leak rumors that the reason that your firm won't go to $205k for stubs is because it's collapsing.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms believe is an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID. When one or both of those returns to normal, the special bonus spigot will be shut off, but I don't think that happens before we get at least one more round of those bonuses next calendar year.

I don't know if you are still specifically talking about Goodwin but I think the initial poster was referring to the above market bonuses they give. ~40% of associates who met hours last year received above-market. Question is if they would go even higher above market this year for high achievers. There seems to be a slight break from market lockstep created by these firms, like K&E especially, giving above market bonuses.

I’m quoted anon and I wasn’t referring to Goodwin specifically. My prediction is that firms use the same year-end bonus scale as they used last year, whatever that is, because they will understand that in this moment a year-end bonus bump isn’t the best use of money for retention purposes. They’ll push that to April or whatever instead.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms believe is an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID. When one or both of those returns to normal, the special bonus spigot will be shut off, but I don't think that happens before we get at least one more round of those bonuses next calendar year.

This is a good take and I think where the smart money is. 2021 has seen spring and fall bonuses and a scale increase. I think year end bonuses are mostly static -- maybe a very small edge up; but there's going to be messaging, perhaps even as year end is being paid, that the expectation is for another round of spring / fall bonuses in 2022. Beyond that it's hard to predict because it depends on too many factors that may change as your post notes.

What I'm most interested in as we go beyond 2022 is whether the spring / fall bonuses will become a permanent part of the biglaw compensation model because of firms' perceptions that they improve retention. Biglaw firms tend to be very status quo biased--when they do something, they stick with it--and I'm wondering if the idea of getting three bonuses, one in the spring, one in the fall, then a big one at the end of the year is going to become a part of the normal experience of biglaw in the 2020s. If they announce another set of them for 2022 then it increases the chances of that happening long term.

[Anonymous User]

No one is raising, will be calls across the board. Haven't been following all 30+ pages of this thread but unless STB dives in with a raise at the midlevel+ bracket we're not going to see any developments. Rest of the V10 and usual suspects (do not make this into a WilliamsConnolly and JD thread pls) in the v30 will match and then it's a question about what happens throughout the rest of the v50.

When is Williams just going to collapse? Their numbers don't look great:

https://www.law.com/law-firm-profile/?i ... nnolly-LLP

I feel like they're one major round of partner defections away from just imploding. They were such a cool firm back in the day when you could be litigation forward as a biglaw firm but they seem like a dinosaur in an age of exploding transactional profits. Even as a litigator why would I want to work there when I could go somewhere where I had the safety net of a robust m&a / cap mkts / debt finance etc. practice.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, the NY/V10 drama is pretty much over. Time for those of us in V20-50 to start sweating.

Seems like the realistic focus here rather than waiting for a hero to re-raise the scale (not happening). Let’s see which of the firms on the margin match first.

I think we have to go deeper down the list.

In the V20-V50 range, only Williams & Connolly, K&L and maybe Hogan don’t match.

I mean, King & Spalding, Perkins, Arnold & Porter, Covington? Original anon here and I am mostly worried about DC's Holy Trinity of Cheap. (Excluding the obvious Jones Day, which I suppose is Satan in this extended analogy)

K&S is particularly interesting. They recently brought all their US offices to the previous NY scale, and in their announcement talked about a "unified salary structure" across all US offices. They almost certainly will match this new scale in NY. But the interesting question is whether they will immediately trash that "unified structure" and go back to the prior structure under which basically all US offices make NY scale, except ATL and CLT (and I think maybe some other small offices like Denver?). Since Atlanta is their largest office by head count and a lot of those associates aren't billing out at NY rates, they may be hesitant to match in all markets, unless someone puts pressure on them to (looking at you, A&B!!).

[Yardbird]

Goodwin is not breaking the cartel's new selected scale LMAOOOO - stop deluding yourself jesus. It's be this scale for 18 months then go up again in the exact same process.

For salaries, yes. Just waitin on those end-of-year bonus wars.

Will be interesting to see if these go up. I'm going to guess no. The special bonuses this year plus additional salary comp will facially be the reason why. Practically speaking, it will be because increased year-end bonuses will not serve retention purposes and may actually harm retention for burned-out associates who get a larger windfall than anticipated and can now have whatever degree of financial security they seek.

I expect 2021 year-end bonuses will be static, and there is a chance that special bonuses continue into 2022 to keep associates around a bit longer through what firms believe is an aberration period of associates and clients both trying to cope with emerging from COVID. When one or both of those returns to normal, the special bonus spigot will be shut off, but I don't think that happens before we get at least one more round of those bonuses next calendar year.

I don't know if you are still specifically talking about Goodwin but I think the initial poster was referring to the above market bonuses they give. ~40% of associates who met hours last year received above-market. Question is if they would go even higher above market this year for high achievers. There seems to be a slight break from market lockstep created by these firms, like K&E especially, giving above market bonuses.

I’m quoted anon and I wasn’t referring to Goodwin specifically. My prediction is that firms use the same year-end bonus scale as they used last year, whatever that is, because they will understand that in this moment a year-end bonus bump isn’t the best use of money for retention purposes. They’ll push that to April or whatever instead.

Spring bonuses would be nice but they don’t really incentivize anyone to stay if other firms are willing to pay them as part of signing bonuses. Retention bonuses also won’t really work unless (1) they are somewhat large, paid soon and have a long clawback period (1 year or more) or (2) they are absolutely huge and are paid far in the future (at least 1 year out) and are large enough that associates stay for them and other firms won’t/can’t cover them in a signing bonus package. Bonuses really only incentivize folks who are leaving big law to stay in big law a little longer.

[nealric]

Alright, the NY/V10 drama is pretty much over. Time for those of us in V20-50 to start sweating.

Seems like the realistic focus here rather than waiting for a hero to re-raise the scale (not happening). Let’s see which of the firms on the margin match first.

I think we have to go deeper down the list.

In the V20-V50 range, only Williams & Connolly, K&L and maybe Hogan don’t match.

I mean, King & Spalding, Perkins, Arnold & Porter, Covington? Original anon here and I am mostly worried about DC's Holy Trinity of Cheap. (Excluding the obvious Jones Day, which I suppose is Satan in this extended analogy)

K&S is particularly interesting. They recently brought all their US offices to the previous NY scale, and in their announcement talked about a "unified salary structure" across all US offices. They almost certainly will match this new scale in NY. But the interesting question is whether they will immediately trash that "unified structure" and go back to the prior structure under which basically all US offices make NY scale, except ATL and CLT (and I think maybe some other small offices like Denver?). Since Atlanta is their largest office by head count and a lot of those associates aren't billing out at NY rates, they may be hesitant to match in all markets, unless someone puts pressure on them to (looking at you, A&B!!).

K&S is kind of weird in that regard. One of the few firms has historically paid less in its home office than satellites. I get the impression that Atlanta hasn't had quite the same salary pressure as places like Texas due to fewer of the national firms having a presence.

[Anonymous User]

STB matched:

Class of 2020 - $205,000
Class of 2019 - $215,000
Class of 2018 - $240,000
Class of 2017 - $275,000
Class of 2016 - $305,000
Class of 2015 - $330,000
Class of 2014 - $350,000
Class of 2013 - $365,000

[Anonymous User]

No one is raising, will be calls across the board. Haven't been following all 30+ pages of this thread but unless STB dives in with a raise at the midlevel+ bracket we're not going to see any developments. Rest of the V10 and usual suspects (do not make this into a WilliamsConnolly and JD thread pls) in the v30 will match and then it's a question about what happens throughout the rest of the v50.

When is Williams just going to collapse? Their numbers don't look great:

https://www.law.com/law-firm-profile/?i ... nnolly-LLP

I feel like they're one major round of partner defections away from just imploding. They were such a cool firm back in the day when you could be litigation forward as a biglaw firm but they seem like a dinosaur in an age of exploding transactional profits. Even as a litigator why would I want to work there when I could go somewhere where I had the safety net of a robust m&a / cap mkts / debt finance etc. practice.

Williams’ salary scale (PRE-salary raises, at least.) was far ahead of what is reported on Vault. I think 4th year salary may have started with a 3. No bonuses though.). I imagine they’ll move to, albeit late and, as almost always, silently.

my understanding (speaking with knowledge, so just delete if considering deleting-anon) is that the average associate doesn’t bill nearly as many hours as the average Lit or corp associate in NYC. Take that for whatever it’s worth. there’s a reason law students still flock to the firm
notwithstanding a pretty substantial pay gap beginning year 3 or 4, which only widens as time goes on. But I agree that we are now living in a time where money talks.

[Anonymous User]

STB matched:

Class of 2020 - $205,000
Class of 2019 - $215,000
Class of 2018 - $240,000
Class of 2017 - $275,000
Class of 2016 - $305,000
Class of 2015 - $330,000
Class of 2014 - $350,000
Class of 2013 - $365,000

Pack it up boys...dreams of re-re-raising are officially dead.

Not unhappy about the extra 25k but greed is endless I guess.

WHERE ARE THESE SKADDEN RETENTION BONUSES???

[Anonymous User]

Come on partners...announce raises so we can get back to billing so you can get more profits so you can fight with each other next year about how much more you should pay us so we can continue to have an incentive to live shitty lives