Fall bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

if this is the case, why does DPW have one opening for a lateral position right now on their website?

[Anonymous User]

if this is the case, why does DPW have one opening for a lateral position right now on their website?

Because general solicitation isn't how legal recruiting works?

[soft blue]

That doesn't gel to me. If DPW needed more people in finance or bankruptcy, they could just make obscene lateral bonus offers. The checks were about keeping who they have. (This is why I think K&E et al will top off: a lot of people who were on the fence about staying -- midlevels who the firms really want to stay -- may be so disgusted/offended/etc that head for the doors. At least that's the vibe in my absolutely slammed group where everyone gets 4 or 5 recruiter emails a week.)

[Anonymous User]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

[12YrsAnAssociate]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

[cornerstone]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

[kobe1020]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

The real question is, if Cravath is going to set the "market" but adding on top of DPW Fall bonus + Existing Cravath Scale Bonus. For example DPW Fall Bonus for a 3rd year would be $20k + $50k = $70k. Maybe Cravath can disrupt the market but having a $75k/$80k for their 3rd year?

We can only hope.

[12YrsAnAssociate]

I think a big question is what are the lower tier biglaw firms going to do if Cravath just announces bonuses that are an approximation of their last year's bonuses added to the DPW summer bonus? Is a Perkins Coie-level firm that normally matches Cravath for annual bonuses going to peel off the DPW part and just pay what they did last year? Pay whatever Cravath pays? Something else? I could see some huge stratification this year.

[sms18]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

It's not market when only a small portion of V100 is paying these bonuses. The pledge by a number of firms to "take into account" fall bonuses at year end doesn't mean anything until it is actually paid.

[joeshrk]

Firms that follow the "Cravath Scale" will pay the "Cravath Scale" which will be last year's bonuses plus the Fall Bonuses.

Firms that already paid fall bonuses, will, most likely, pay the "Cravath Scale" minus the Fall Bonuses they already paid.

Other firms, Perkins Coie included (LOL at the poster above), will pay whatever they feel like paying.

P.S. Perkins Coie ... Well, I'm not going to finish this statement. Hi Perkins Coie legal recruiting department or 1L . . .

[jonanthony92]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Do we know when Cravath/other first movers announced fall bonuses previously? Would think it would have been sometime in the first half of November.

[Anonymous User]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

Good on Akin and congrats to their associates.

For those curious about where Latham currently stands, no communications whatsoever from the executive committee. Local office managing partner told associates on our monthly call last week that the associates committee pressed the executive committee on making a decision last Monday. We all expected to hear something on Friday, but nothing.

Grumbling among Latham associates (at least in my practice group, which is approximating around 150% pace YTD), is growing louder by the day, all while morale is steadily dropping. Latham is always slow to announce, but at this point, associates are genuinely wondering whether Latham will just remain silent altogether, which is insulting since exec has called this a banner year thus far with respect to both revenue and collections. And the rationale some firms have employed--that annual bonuses will be paid out in short order, so no point in issuing a special bonus now--doesn't apply to Latham since our bonuses are paid in February. A great deal of frustration here.

All that to say: Latham associates originally had high hopes; hopes are now diminishing almost as quickly as morale.

[JusticeJackson]

Bonus announcements started on November 7 last year: https://www.google.com/amp/s/abovethela ... -here/amp/

[cornerstone]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

It's not market when only a small portion of V100 is paying these bonuses. The pledge by a number of firms to "take into account" fall bonuses at year end doesn't mean anything until it is actually paid.

I should have been more clear. When I say the bonuses are "market" I mean for firms with large, selective NYC offices. The fact that we have >10 matches (DPW, Milbank, HH, Irell, SullCrom, Debevois, STB, Freshfields, Weil-ish, Shearman, Willkie, Akin), already confirms that this isn't just a one-off Gunderson-type bonus. 40% of the top 10 firms in NYC have already paid. One need look no further than this thread to realize that anybody at a top NYC shop that doesn't get a comparable bonus by EOY is going to be at least considering a lateral move. To me, that's enough to lock in market for any firm doing reasonably well in the pandemic.

IMHO, I can see only one scenario where extra bonuses do not become market: Cravath dropping the ball. But do we really think that's going to happen? Cravath has a strong interest in maintaining preftige, and with PPP falling relative to peers they need to pay on par to keep the top law students interested. I understand why people don't want to get their hopes up when firms are issuing non-committal language, but I think these firms are doing that just to delay until Cravath speaks. Reasonable minds may differ, though.

The better question, as others have raised, is what happens to other firms outside the NYC elite (and to smaller offices of larger firms). The fact that Akin matched is a good sign, but we'll have to see how far down the list this carries.

[nickdrake]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

It's not market when only a small portion of V100 is paying these bonuses. The pledge by a number of firms to "take into account" fall bonuses at year end doesn't mean anything until it is actually paid.

I should have been more clear. When I say the bonuses are "market" I mean for firms with large, selective NYC offices. The fact that we have >10 matches (DPW, Milbank, HH, Irell, SullCrom, Debevois, STB, Freshfields, Weil-ish, Shearman, Willkie, Akin), already confirms that this isn't just a one-off Gunderson-type bonus. 40% of the top 10 firms in NYC have already paid. One need look no further than this thread to realize that anybody at a top NYC shop that doesn't get a comparable bonus by EOY is going to be at least considering a lateral move. To me, that's enough to lock in market for any firm doing reasonably well in the pandemic.

IMHO, I can see only one scenario where extra bonuses do not become market: Cravath dropping the ball. But do we really think that's going to happen? Cravath has a strong interest in maintaining preftige, and with PPP falling relative to peers they need to pay on par to keep the top law students interested. I understand why people don't want to get their hopes up when firms are issuing non-committal language, but I think these firms are doing that just to delay until Cravath speaks. Reasonable minds may differ, though.

The better question, as others have raised, is what happens to other firms outside the NYC elite (and to smaller offices of larger firms). The fact that Akin matched is a good sign, but we'll have to see how far down the list this carries.

Who's the NYC elite?

[cornerstone]

Who's the NYC elite?

Do you really need a concrete list to understand my post? Or do you just not have anything productive to say?

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

Who's the NYC elite?

Celino & Barnes

[nickdrake]

Who's the NYC elite?

Do you really need a concrete list to understand my post? Or do you just not have anything productive to say?

I don't need a concrete list to understand your post; your point is well taken, and I agree with it: Cravath will position itself poorly if it doesn't do anything by EOY. I just asked because I'm curious to hear what people who I presume are in practice consider the NYC elite. It's tough to get a response on this inquiry anywhere else on this site.

[sms18]

So akin have announced fall bonuses

I'm shocked. I always thought they were an ardent market follower. Good for Akin associates. Hopefully Cravath announces annual bonuses in the next week or two, and includes this DPW bonus on top of their annual bonus.

Fall bonuses are market now. It's just a question of whether you pay them now or at year's end.

It's not market when only a small portion of V100 is paying these bonuses. The pledge by a number of firms to "take into account" fall bonuses at year end doesn't mean anything until it is actually paid.

I should have been more clear. When I say the bonuses are "market" I mean for firms with large, selective NYC offices. The fact that we have >10 matches (DPW, Milbank, HH, Irell, SullCrom, Debevois, STB, Freshfields, Weil-ish, Shearman, Willkie, Akin), already confirms that this isn't just a one-off Gunderson-type bonus. 40% of the top 10 firms in NYC have already paid. One need look no further than this thread to realize that anybody at a top NYC shop that doesn't get a comparable bonus by EOY is going to be at least considering a lateral move. To me, that's enough to lock in market for any firm doing reasonably well in the pandemic.

IMHO, I can see only one scenario where extra bonuses do not become market: Cravath dropping the ball. But do we really think that's going to happen? Cravath has a strong interest in maintaining preftige, and with PPP falling relative to peers they need to pay on par to keep the top law students interested. I understand why people don't want to get their hopes up when firms are issuing non-committal language, but I think these firms are doing that just to delay until Cravath speaks. Reasonable minds may differ, though.

The better question, as others have raised, is what happens to other firms outside the NYC elite (and to smaller offices of larger firms). The fact that Akin matched is a good sign, but we'll have to see how far down the list this carries.

If the economy remains relatively stable at year end/early 2021, then agree that there is a possibility that the COVID appreciation bonus becomes "market" for profitable firms with strong NY/transactional practices, but if the market tanks due to election-related shenanigans, another waive of pandemic (or [insert any other potential black swan event]) then it doesn't seem very likely that this would become market trend and this may remain a one-off thing that a handful of V50 firms did during the 2020 pandemic. Associates at firms that didn't match may complain that such firms don't appreciate their associates' hard work and aren't market leaders etc., but would associates really pull the trigger and lateral (despite all the hard work from recruiters who are having a field day thanks to these bonuses) if there is no guarantee that the COVID bonus would become market trend and be repeated next year and etc.? Not trying to be a negative nancy, but seems too early to know/predict with any certainty.

[bwh8813]

Who's the NYC elite?

Celino & Barnes

RIP

[Anonymous User]

FWIW Cravath pulled a similar move last recession too -- paying below market. My recollection is that the firm's PPP dropped 25% in 2008 ish, and this was a more severe drop than its peers. This in turn inspired the establishment of bankruptcy practice, focus on white collar & IP, because the firm wanted to be recession proof. Then, they signed that stupid Hudson Yard right before COVID.... just like that time they locked in WWP rent right before the 2008 crash. History repeats itself I guess. So there is a non-negligible possibility that Cravath will do the same again, but surely I hope for everyone's sake this doesn't happen + we just get higher year end bonus industry-wide.

https://abovethelaw.com/2008/11/associa ... n-skadden/

[cornerstone]

Who's the NYC elite?

Do you really need a concrete list to understand my post? Or do you just not have anything productive to say?

I don't need a concrete list to understand your post; your point is well taken, and I agree with it: Cravath will position itself poorly if it doesn't do anything by EOY. I just asked because I'm curious to hear what people who I presume are in practice consider the NYC elite. It's tough to get a response on this inquiry anywhere else on this site.

Agree that it's hard to get a list - that's probably why I overreacted. I'm 100% sure I'm not the right person to ask for this. But since forums like this encourage ill-informed people like me to package mere speculation as fact, I'd say look at a combination of the Vault NYC rankings, AmLaw PPP rankings, firms that only hired LR gunners from your T14 school, and a sprinkling of M&A deal volume metrics to boot.

[Anonymous User]

From Gibson Dunn... wah wah:

We, of course, are aware that some of our peer firms have announced the award of special bonuses to associates and of counsel who are in good standing. We plan to make bonus decisions after completion of our normal associate/of counsel review process, and to pay bonuses no later than December 22. Our bonuses (both standard and special) will take into account the dedication and hard work that so many of you have demonstrated during these unprecedented times. As always, the firm is and remains fully committed to providing competitive compensation.

[Anonymous User]

From Gibson Dunn... wah wah:

We, of course, are aware that some of our peer firms have announced the award of special bonuses to associates and of counsel who are in good standing. We plan to make bonus decisions after completion of our normal associate/of counsel review process, and to pay bonuses no later than December 22. Our bonuses (both standard and special) will take into account the dedication and hard work that so many of you have demonstrated during these unprecedented times. As always, the firm is and remains fully committed to providing competitive compensation.

It's worth noting that Akin doesn't pay annual bonuses until February, so that likely factored in to them announcing a fall bonus this week when others are waiting to (hopefully) lump them in to year-end bonus.

[Anonymous User]

From Gibson Dunn... wah wah:

We, of course, are aware that some of our peer firms have announced the award of special bonuses to associates and of counsel who are in good standing. We plan to make bonus decisions after completion of our normal associate/of counsel review process, and to pay bonuses no later than December 22. Our bonuses (both standard and special) will take into account the dedication and hard work that so many of you have demonstrated during these unprecedented times. As always, the firm is and remains fully committed to providing competitive compensation.

It's worth noting that Akin doesn't pay annual bonuses until February, so that likely factored in to them announcing a fall bonus this week when others are waiting to (hopefully) lump them in to year-end bonus.

Goodwin doesn't pay bonuses until February either, yet they announced no fall bonus. Timing may have played a factor in Akin's decision, but I wouldn't think it was the dealbreaking concern.