Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland SF - anyone have thoughts? Specifically for the debt group. Considering a move from a v10 in a different city for my partners job - current firm doesnt have an SF office.

[axiomaticapiary]

"If the grind gets to be too much, attorneys can turn to the Kirkland Concierge. “It’s a service that helps with everyday tasks you might not have time for, like picking up your groceries or planning a child's birthday,” juniors said." - the Kirkland Chambers Associate page

Can anyone speak to what this is and how the fuck it would help you plan your kid's birthday party?

[Anonymous User]

"If the grind gets to be too much, attorneys can turn to the Kirkland Concierge. “It’s a service that helps with everyday tasks you might not have time for, like picking up your groceries or planning a child's birthday,” juniors said." - the Kirkland Chambers Associate page

Can anyone speak to what this is and how the fuck it would help you plan your kid's birthday party?

It's basically a thing you email or call when you need stuff and they do it for you. People have used it to like order flowers/wines, get quotes for moving companies or contractors or whatever, find tickets to events. I assume "plan a birthday" would mean Concierge would find a local event planner and provide them the details of your event so that they could get to work planning it while you are on an 11 PM conference call.

Kirkland pitches it as a way to save time; the subtext is "because you do not have time to attend to normal human activities when you are billing as a Kirkland lawyer" but honestly I think it's a nice little perk. I've used it with some success and it has saved me time. There's not really much of a limit to the things they can help you do so long as they can find the company that provides the service/good you are looking for. They do they work to locate and connect you with whatever you want.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Kirkland lit as a 5+ year associate? (hours, culture, practice group reputation, anything else). Deciding between a few offers and I think (hope?) that a lot of the KE sweatshop stories come from the PE and bankruptcy groups...

[Anonymous User]

"If the grind gets to be too much, attorneys can turn to the Kirkland Concierge. “It’s a service that helps with everyday tasks you might not have time for, like picking up your groceries or planning a child's birthday,” juniors said." - the Kirkland Chambers Associate page

Can anyone speak to what this is and how the fuck it would help you plan your kid's birthday party?

It's basically a thing you email or call when you need stuff and they do it for you. People have used it to like order flowers/wines, get quotes for moving companies or contractors or whatever, find tickets to events. I assume "plan a birthday" would mean Concierge would find a local event planner and provide them the details of your event so that they could get to work planning it while you are on an 11 PM conference call.

Kirkland pitches it as a way to save time; the subtext is "because you do not have time to attend to normal human activities when you are billing as a Kirkland lawyer" but honestly I think it's a nice little perk. I've used it with some success and it has saved me time. There's not really much of a limit to the things they can help you do so long as they can find the company that provides the service/good you are looking for. They do they work to locate and connect you with whatever you want.

Concierge is super helpful. PRO TIP: Make sure to tell them clearly about your budget or they will assume that you have partner-level wealth. Tried to get help planning a vacation (transportation from airport to hotel in another country) and they came back with hilarious options (including a stretch limousine for only $300 one way trip).

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland SF - anyone have thoughts? Specifically for the debt group. Considering a move from a v10 in a different city for my partners job - current firm doesnt have an SF office.

Bump, would love to know more about the Bay Area offices!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Kirkland lit as a 5+ year associate? (hours, culture, practice group reputation, anything else). Deciding between a few offers and I think (hope?) that a lot of the KE sweatshop stories come from the PE and bankruptcy groups...

I'm a Kirkland mid-level in lit. At years 5+, it's absolutely brutal. Partners expect you to be responsible for a lot of the caseload from a managerial perspective as well as the typical work assigned to associates, so you have to manage both up and down. And the quality of the lower-level associates you have to oversee can vary a lot, as can the attitudes of the partners you have to manage up. K&E does a lot of shareholder disputes in Delaware, for example, and that litigation can be hectic, fast-paced, demanding clients and partners who have a good grasp of the transactional side but very unreasonable standards for the day-to-day litigation.

IMO, the pay is not commensurate to the responsibility once you reach senior associate/NSP level. I'm not planning to try to stick around through the NSP fog into share partner, because of how bad the compensation is for senior associates/NSPs relative to the workload. The stress alone makes it not worth it. I'm looking to lateral out as soon as I can find a decent landing spot.

(But hey, they have a concierge service that will help you buy your wife's birthday present when you have to cancel dinner plans on Friday night!)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Kirkland lit as a 5+ year associate? (hours, culture, practice group reputation, anything else). Deciding between a few offers and I think (hope?) that a lot of the KE sweatshop stories come from the PE and bankruptcy groups...

I'm a Kirkland mid-level in lit. At years 5+, it's absolutely brutal. Partners expect you to be responsible for a lot of the caseload from a managerial perspective as well as the typical work assigned to associates, so you have to manage both up and down. And the quality of the lower-level associates you have to oversee can vary a lot, as can the attitudes of the partners you have to manage up. K&E does a lot of shareholder disputes in Delaware, for example, and that litigation can be hectic, fast-paced, demanding clients and partners who have a good grasp of the transactional side but very unreasonable standards for the day-to-day litigation.

Fellow KE lit midlevel. Agree with this but I'm not sure how much of it is KE and how much is just biglaw. I've only ever been here so my frames of reference for peer firms are law school friends, most of whom have left biglaw already anyway.

[Anonymous User]

What's the general dress code for men in the Chicago office?

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland SF - anyone have thoughts? Specifically for the debt group. Considering a move from a v10 in a different city for my partners job - current firm doesnt have an SF office.

Bump, would love to know more about the Bay Area offices!

I like working with the bay area debt folks.

[Anonymous User]

What's the general dress code for men in the Chicago office?

Group specific, and post-COVID, I plan on jeans/button-ups/sweaters. I have a suit in my office for Zoom meetings with clients and hearings, but I don’t see the point to wearing suits or anything more formal unless I have a reason for it.

I should add I’m also a 6th year with a good reputation, so YMMV.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland SF - anyone have thoughts? Specifically for the debt group. Considering a move from a v10 in a different city for my partners job - current firm doesnt have an SF office.

Bump, would love to know more about the Bay Area offices!

I like working with the bay area debt folks. The west coast debt group is well regarded.

If you have more specific questions, I’ll try to answer.

Any insight on office/group culture, how brutal the hours are, etc. would be appreciated! I’ve heard it’s a complete meat grinder (for example, associates billing 2400 a year being told they aren’t dedicated enough) and want to try to figure out how accurate that is.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Kirkland lit as a 5+ year associate? (hours, culture, practice group reputation, anything else). Deciding between a few offers and I think (hope?) that a lot of the KE sweatshop stories come from the PE and bankruptcy groups...

I'm a Kirkland mid-level in lit. At years 5+, it's absolutely brutal. Partners expect you to be responsible for a lot of the caseload from a managerial perspective as well as the typical work assigned to associates, so you have to manage both up and down. And the quality of the lower-level associates you have to oversee can vary a lot, as can the attitudes of the partners you have to manage up. K&E does a lot of shareholder disputes in Delaware, for example, and that litigation can be hectic, fast-paced, demanding clients and partners who have a good grasp of the transactional side but very unreasonable standards for the day-to-day litigation.

Fellow KE lit midlevel. Agree with this but I'm not sure how much of it is KE and how much is just biglaw. I've only ever been here so my frames of reference for peer firms are law school friends, most of whom have left biglaw already anyway.

I'm the first mid-level in lit above. I think K&E is more intense and demanding than a lot of Big Law peers in terms of hours expectations and demands for availability. My experience is with V10, so maybe places like Cravath and WLRK are just as tough, but even places like Gibson and PW are not as harsh as K&E when you get to mid-level and the hours/billing expectations.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Kirkland lit as a 5+ year associate? (hours, culture, practice group reputation, anything else). Deciding between a few offers and I think (hope?) that a lot of the KE sweatshop stories come from the PE and bankruptcy groups...

I'm a Kirkland mid-level in lit. At years 5+, it's absolutely brutal. Partners expect you to be responsible for a lot of the caseload from a managerial perspective as well as the typical work assigned to associates, so you have to manage both up and down. And the quality of the lower-level associates you have to oversee can vary a lot, as can the attitudes of the partners you have to manage up. K&E does a lot of shareholder disputes in Delaware, for example, and that litigation can be hectic, fast-paced, demanding clients and partners who have a good grasp of the transactional side but very unreasonable standards for the day-to-day litigation.

Fellow KE lit midlevel. Agree with this but I'm not sure how much of it is KE and how much is just biglaw. I've only ever been here so my frames of reference for peer firms are law school friends, most of whom have left biglaw already anyway.

I'm the first mid-level in lit above. I think K&E is more intense and demanding than a lot of Big Law peers in terms of hours expectations and demands for availability. My experience is with V10, so maybe places like Cravath and WLRK are just as tough, but even places like Gibson and PW are not as harsh as K&E when you get to mid-level and the hours/billing expectations.

I agree with this. There are no other massive firms that treat 7th years as though they're capable of completely running a case (places like Susman might, I've never worked there), but since 7th years are called "partners" at KE (and 5-6th years are called "senior associates" l-o-fucking-l), KE thinks they're magically capable of running cases with minimal oversight.

[Anonymous User]

What's the general dress code for men in the Chicago office?

Group specific, and post-COVID, I plan on jeans/button-ups/sweaters. I have a suit in my office for Zoom meetings with clients and hearings, but I don’t see the point to wearing suits or anything more formal unless I have a reason for it.

I should add I’m also a 6th year with a good reputation, so YMMV.

and for women?

[Anonymous User]

Regarding the disconnect between stories we’re hearing about NSP1s vs 6th years, I wonder if it can be explained by state taxes? As a Texas KE associate, I’m thoroughly enjoying not paying any state income taxes and bringing home ~11% more than my NYC counterparts. But from what I understand, at the NSP & SP level, we will all pay an amalgamated tax rate based on some complex formula across offices, that tends to come out somewhere around 5-6%.

So if I’m a Texas 6th year and then suddenly owe 5-6% of state tax as a 7th year, that’s a big loss. If I’m an NYC 6th year paying ~11%, who now pays the amalgamated rate as a 7th year, it seems much better (I don’t know enough about NYC taxes to know whether their tax burden would actually decrease, or stay the same, but whatever it is will feel less painful than a TX NSP who’s used to pay 0%).

Just a theory.

Is this how it actually works? That’s not much more than chicago rate

[Anonymous User]

Regarding the disconnect between stories we’re hearing about NSP1s vs 6th years, I wonder if it can be explained by state taxes? As a Texas KE associate, I’m thoroughly enjoying not paying any state income taxes and bringing home ~11% more than my NYC counterparts. But from what I understand, at the NSP & SP level, we will all pay an amalgamated tax rate based on some complex formula across offices, that tends to come out somewhere around 5-6%.

So if I’m a Texas 6th year and then suddenly owe 5-6% of state tax as a 7th year, that’s a big loss. If I’m an NYC 6th year paying ~11%, who now pays the amalgamated rate as a 7th year, it seems much better (I don’t know enough about NYC taxes to know whether their tax burden would actually decrease, or stay the same, but whatever it is will feel less painful than a TX NSP who’s used to pay 0%).

Just a theory.

Is this how it actually works? That’s not much more than chicago rate

[LBJ's Hair]

I'm a Kirkland mid-level in lit. At years 5+, it's absolutely brutal. Partners expect you to be responsible for a lot of the caseload from a managerial perspective as well as the typical work assigned to associates, so you have to manage both up and down. And the quality of the lower-level associates you have to oversee can vary a lot, as can the attitudes of the partners you have to manage up. K&E does a lot of shareholder disputes in Delaware, for example, and that litigation can be hectic, fast-paced, demanding clients and partners who have a good grasp of the transactional side but very unreasonable standards for the day-to-day litigation.

Fellow KE lit midlevel. Agree with this but I'm not sure how much of it is KE and how much is just biglaw. I've only ever been here so my frames of reference for peer firms are law school friends, most of whom have left biglaw already anyway.

I'm the first mid-level in lit above. I think K&E is more intense and demanding than a lot of Big Law peers in terms of hours expectations and demands for availability. My experience is with V10, so maybe places like Cravath and WLRK are just as tough, but even places like Gibson and PW are not as harsh as K&E when you get to mid-level and the hours/billing expectations.

I agree with this. There are no other massive firms that treat 7th years as though they're capable of completely running a case (places like Susman might, I've never worked there), but since 7th years are called "partners" at KE (and 5-6th years are called "senior associates" l-o-fucking-l), KE thinks they're magically capable of running cases with minimal oversight.

this is not true. 7th years are expected to run deals/cases w/minimal-to-no partner oversight across the V10. it's part of making a serious case for partnership.

stressful and I get being frustrated by it, but not a KE thing

[Anonymous User]

Do many laterals leave KE shortly after their sign on bonus lock up expires? Thanks for any info or anecdotes.

[Anonymous User]

Regarding the disconnect between stories we’re hearing about NSP1s vs 6th years, I wonder if it can be explained by state taxes? As a Texas KE associate, I’m thoroughly enjoying not paying any state income taxes and bringing home ~11% more than my NYC counterparts. But from what I understand, at the NSP & SP level, we will all pay an amalgamated tax rate based on some complex formula across offices, that tends to come out somewhere around 5-6%.

So if I’m a Texas 6th year and then suddenly owe 5-6% of state tax as a 7th year, that’s a big loss. If I’m an NYC 6th year paying ~11%, who now pays the amalgamated rate as a 7th year, it seems much better (I don’t know enough about NYC taxes to know whether their tax burden would actually decrease, or stay the same, but whatever it is will feel less painful than a TX NSP who’s used to pay 0%).

Just a theory.

Is this how it actually works? That’s not much more than chicago rate

KE Texas anon who you’re replying to. That’s how it was explained to me by an NSP recently (including that his taxes end up around 5-6%).

[Anonymous User]

Do many laterals leave KE shortly after their sign on bonus lock up expires? Thanks for any info or anecdotes.

What is the signing bonus lockup period?

Edit: Should've added that this is very relevant to me and not just bc i'm generally curious

[Anonymous User]

Do many laterals leave KE shortly after their sign on bonus lock up expires? Thanks for any info or anecdotes.

What is the signing bonus lockup period?

Edit: Should've added that this is very relevant to me and not just bc i'm generally curious

my lock-up period is 1 year

[Anonymous User]

Clerkship bonus lock-ups are 1 year as well, I think that is KE's standard. It had a monthly vesting proration so if I left after 3 months (or 3 months and 29 days) I would have had to repay 9/12ths of it.

[Anonymous User]

Do many laterals leave KE shortly after their sign on bonus lock up expires? Thanks for any info or anecdotes.

What is the signing bonus lockup period?

Edit: Should've added that this is very relevant to me and not just bc i'm generally curious

my lock-up period is 1 year

My signing bonus lockup was 1 year, too

[Anonymous User]

Do many laterals leave KE shortly after their sign on bonus lock up expires? Thanks for any info or anecdotes.

What is the signing bonus lockup period?

Edit: Should've added that this is very relevant to me and not just bc i'm generally curious

For more substantial bonuses (think 300-400), I have heard of them being two year lockups