How much do you want WFH? Forum

[NoLongerALurker]

WFH year has taught me that I am willing to stick around biglaw indefinitely as long as it's WFH.

I almost certainly would have moved on from biglaw in the past year if not for WFH.

I generally feel like my feelings about WFH are in line with the majority of other associates I talk to.

[jagpaw]

Do we know what firms have announced that attorneys will be required to come back in the office? Those firms should be shamed publicly.

I for one will never work for such a firm, and I think those firms who fail to adapt will ultimately be left behind. I think this thread ultimately speaks to how most people enjoy different ways of working. One way shouldn’t be imposed on everyone.

Frankly, I’m surprised it’s taken our society so long to realize that most people are more productive under flexible working conditions.

[AAPLTSLADIS]

WFH year has taught me that I am willing to stick around biglaw indefinitely as long as it's WFH.

I almost certainly would have moved on from biglaw in the past year if not for WFH.

I generally feel like my feelings about WFH are in line with the majority of other associates I talk to.

This.

[BankruptcyJesus]

WFH year has taught me that I am willing to stick around biglaw indefinitely as long as it's WFH.

I almost certainly would have moved on from biglaw in the past year if not for WFH.

I generally feel like my feelings about WFH are in line with the majority of other associates I talk to.

This.

I second this.

[egergegerg]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

[cisscum]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

Texas is majority minority dumbass. Almost always virtue signaling whites like you who think like this

[Anonymous User]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

WFH means you can live wherever you want. You’re not obligated to leave the city.

But this comment is interesting because its what the partners might trot out to justify universal return to the office. “Wfh is racist, let’s get back to the office in the name of inclusiveness.”

[egergegerg]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

Texas is majority minority dumbass. Almost always virtue signaling whites like you who think like this

Ok. There's more than one type of minority, and this post is about the value having a cultural community in the city where you work.

[egergegerg]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

WFH means you can live wherever you want. You’re not obligated to leave the city.

But this comment is interesting because its what the partners might trot out to justify universal return to the office. “Wfh is racist, let’s get back to the office in the name of inclusiveness.”

To be clear I wasn't saying WFH is racist or means you're forced to move. Just agreeing with OP that WFH doesn't automatically equal the desire to move to a random LCOL area, something many people in this thread were talking about. I def want WFH, I just wouldn't move away.

[Anonymous User]

WFH from Texas doesn't stand a chance against NY state tax jurisdiction rules, which is probably one of the highest cost for NYC biglaw

[Anonymous User]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

Texas is majority minority dumbass. Almost always virtue signaling whites like you who think like this

And as everyone knows, that demographic shift has not been a source of tension or conflict whatsoever.

I'm not white, and that's one of many reasons why I would not live anywhere in Texas with the possible exception of Austin.

[cisscum]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

Texas is majority minority dumbass. Almost always virtue signaling whites like you who think like this

Ok. There's more than one type of minority, and this post is about the value having a cultural community in the city where you work.

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

[Anonymous User]

New here (long-time lurker, but made a new account to join the conversation) and I have a gripe in relation to WFH-- I think it (amongst many other things) sucks that minority lawyers would not take advantage of WFH by moving to a lower cost area because of the lack of diversity. A big house, yard, pool, whatever sounds nice, but I couldn't move to a place long-term that likely has no community of people who look like me/speak my language, no access to culture-specific groceries or restaurants, no house of worship that has majority minority members, etc.
Also I'm sure many with jobs that have demanding hours rely on family for childcare, and so even if I were okay with the lack of culture-specific resources, my elderly immigrant parent could never move with me because those resources are even more crucial for their quality of life.
Purpose of posting this? Not sure, but maybe some other similarly situated people can relate

Yeah, this is relatable. I am white but my SO isn't. I am not at all interested in moving somewhere where our interracial marriage/ (future) biracial kids will be a weird anomaly, and he is not interested in uprooting his parents from their entire community (which has very minimal presence in the US outside of this city). The "duh just move to a LCOL area after 5 years" and "Texas >>>>" crowd are almost always white men, IMO.

Texas is majority minority dumbass. Almost always virtue signaling whites like you who think like this

And as everyone knows, that demographic shift has not been a source of tension or conflict whatsoever.

I'm not white, and that's one of many reasons why I would not live anywhere in Texas with the possible exception of Austin.

Have you spent time in Houston? What Austin pretends to be, Houston actually is. Houston is incredibly diverse across any spectrum: race, orientation, class, nationality, refugee status, education, foreign-born, language, religion, single/family, etc. Austin is more arm-chair, comfortable progressive/liberal signaling and doesn't live it like Houston. I'm not saying Houston is politically liberal, I think Houston just has a much more live and let live outlook. I get the impression that people who haven't spent time there just think "oh Texas bad, but Austin is maybe hip." There are other reasons for absolutely never wanting to move to Houston (weather, traffic, sprawl, lack-of zoning, driving everywhere, less concentrated, walkable night-life), but lack of diversity is pretty laughable.

Source: houston biglaw, from texas. I completely understand people who don't want to move even if WFH because they like their city (including NYC!). Low COL isn't everything in life like some people in this thread make it out to be.

[Elston Gunn]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

[nixy]

Have you spent time in Houston? What Austin pretends to be, Houston actually is. Houston is incredibly diverse across any spectrum: race, orientation, class, nationality, refugee status, education, foreign-born, language, religion, single/family, etc. Austin is more arm-chair, comfortable progressive/liberal signaling and doesn't live it like Houston. I'm not saying Houston is politically liberal, I think Houston just has a much more live and let live outlook. I get the impression that people who haven't spent time there just think "oh Texas bad, but Austin is maybe hip." There are other reasons for absolutely never wanting to move to Houston (weather, traffic, sprawl, lack-of zoning, driving everywhere, less concentrated, walkable night-life), but lack of diversity is pretty laughable.

Source: houston biglaw, from texas. I completely understand people who don't want to move even if WFH because they like their city (including NYC!). Low COL isn't everything in life like some people in this thread make it out to be.

All of this. I get not wanting to be in Houston for lots of reasons (and I think Texas culture is going to be a big change from NYC and it's fine to live where you want to live), but Houston is an incredibly diverse city.

[Anonymous User]

Have you spent time in Houston? What Austin pretends to be, Houston actually is. Houston is incredibly diverse across any spectrum: race, orientation, class, nationality, refugee status, education, foreign-born, language, religion, single/family, etc. Austin is more arm-chair, comfortable progressive/liberal signaling and doesn't live it like Houston. I'm not saying Houston is politically liberal, I think Houston just has a much more live and let live outlook. I get the impression that people who haven't spent time there just think "oh Texas bad, but Austin is maybe hip." There are other reasons for absolutely never wanting to move to Houston (weather, traffic, sprawl, lack-of zoning, driving everywhere, less concentrated, walkable night-life), but lack of diversity is pretty laughable.

Source: houston biglaw, from texas. I completely understand people who don't want to move even if WFH because they like their city (including NYC!). Low COL isn't everything in life like some people in this thread make it out to be.

All of this. I get not wanting to be in Houston for lots of reasons (and I think Texas culture is going to be a big change from NYC and it's fine to live where you want to live), but Houston is an incredibly diverse city.

POC working in Texas. Went to Harvard, always heard classmates talk about Texas in this way while oblivious to the fact that they were living in one of the most racist and insular cities in the country. A lot of these types at Harvard would look down on Texas but they couldn't find Roxbury or Malden (where people of color live in Boston) on a map. If anything, Austin's more like Boston. Houston is amazingly diverse. The city of Dallas is less diverse but the Metroplex is almost as good as Houston. I think the LA Times ran a good article on how Houston's the most diverse place in America or something.

[lawlo]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

[nixy]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

It's not a double standard when whites and minorities aren't similarly situated in this country.

[Elston Gunn]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

It would be suspicious to say you wanted to live around white people, because “white” doesn’t really have any specific cultural significance/shared experience. But just about everyone clusters near other people with whom they have a shared cultural background/life experiences.

[lawlo]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

It would be suspicious to say you wanted to live around white people, because “white” doesn’t really have any specific cultural significance/shared experience. But just about everyone clusters near other people with whom they have a shared cultural background/life experiences.

And "Asians" do?? Do you realize the amount of diversity present in certain groups??? People aren't the same just because they are labeled "Hispanic" or "Asian".

[lawlo]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

It's not a double standard when whites and minorities aren't similarly situated in this country.

Depends on the minority group. Non-BIPOC are mostly more educated and more wealthy than whites.

[Elston Gunn]

And "Asians" do?? Do you realize the amount of diversity present in certain groups??? People aren't the same just because they are labeled "Hispanic" or "Asian".

Did I miss someone saying they wanted to live around a lot of Asians or something?

[lawlo]

And "Asians" do?? Do you realize the amount of diversity present in certain groups??? People aren't the same just because they are labeled "Hispanic" or "Asian".

Did I miss someone saying they wanted to live around a lot of Asians or something?

It's in response to your "white people don't have a shared cultural experience". Which I think is wrong, and easily seen if you leave the coasts. And it's pretty racist to act like other groups, just because they aren't white, have the same cultural experience. Despite the racist labels put on minority groups in this country, not all Asians, Hispanics, or even Black people (notice I didn't say African Americans) are the same. Just like others groups, they have diversity within their own groups. Shocking I know.

[Elston Gunn]

And "Asians" do?? Do you realize the amount of diversity present in certain groups??? People aren't the same just because they are labeled "Hispanic" or "Asian".

Did I miss someone saying they wanted to live around a lot of Asians or something?

It's in response to your "white people don't have a shared cultural experience". Which I think is wrong, and easily seen if you leave the coasts. And it's pretty racist to act like other groups, just because they aren't white, have the same cultural experience. Despite the racist labels put on minority groups in this country, not all Asians, Hispanics, or even Black people (notice I didn't say African Americans) are the same. Just like others groups, they have diversity within their own groups. Shocking I know.

It just feels like you’re making up stuff to be mad about. I’ve never heard someone say they generically wanted to live around Asians, probably for the reason you’re articulating.

You said a white person saying what the OP said — which was that they wanted to live in a place where their multiracial child wasn’t an anomaly and didn’t want to uproot their spouse from their community — would have been considered racist. Which just isn’t true. You seem to be on a mission to prove that it is the liberals and POC who are the Real Racists or whatever, but all I saw was people venting a little bit and maybe having an inaccurate view of the city of Houston.

If a white person from the rural south said they didn’t want to move to NYC because they’d be leaving their community to live around a bunch of people who aren’t like them, I promise I wouldn’t accuse that person of being racist.

[nixy]

So basically you don’t want diversity, you just want to be surrounded by the same people as you. Very nice (very multicultural)

The poster didn’t say they wanted diversity per se, and specifically mentioned not wanting to be uprooted from their specific community. I have no idea why you feel the need to start a random fight with someone expressing their preferences.

It's just funny that if a white person said what they said publicly they'd probably lose their job because it's racist. Definitely fair to point out that double standard. And as has been explained, the fear of Texas/anywhere non-NYC, coastal California or Chicago, is based on ignorance. People, if anything, are much nicer out of the big cities. But you have to be willing to meet them in the middle. Certainly takes an open mind.

It's not a double standard when whites and minorities aren't similarly situated in this country.

Depends on the minority group. Non-BIPOC are mostly more educated and more wealthy than whites.

I didn't say anything about education or wealth, I said not similarly situated.