Federal antitrust atty taking qs Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about the cultural/practical differences between DOJ and FTC antitrust? Is one or the other known as a better place to work?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear more from either DOJ or FTC re: job postings?

I have spoken to people at both agencies and this is what I’ve heard from them:

1. DOJ is/was looking for people with a lot of experience, like 7+ years of experience to replace senior people who left. They got about 350 apps for about 15 spots so it was a very competitive hiring cycle; and

2. The FTC is prioritizing non-traditional candidates and will start interviewing those people this week. I think “non-traditional” means non-biglaw attorneys. I’ve been told this is an initiative from Slaughter to hire more diverse/minority attorneys, so those who fit that description will have the first shot. They expect to start interviewing biglaw candidates (assuming they haven’t filled all the positions) in a couple weeks or so.

I consider my “sources” at both agencies to be very credible, but take the above FWIW.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about the cultural/practical differences between DOJ and FTC antitrust? Is one or the other known as a better place to work?

I heard from a pretty reliable source that the DOJ has made at least some offers.

[Anonymous User]

Have you heard what sections those offers came from?

[Anonymous User]

Any further updates on the DOJ positions? Been silence since my second round interview more than a month ago.

[Anonymous User]

Any further updates on the DOJ positions? Been silence since my second round interview more than a month ago.

i do know offers have been going out. there's also a rumor another posting is imminent.

[Anonymous User]

How hard is it to explore both crim and civil antitrust work within the DOJ once you’re in? Do you know of any coworkers who have spent years in both, and how does it affect their career growth? Do you know of people who get some court experience in a crim field office, for example, and then go to a civil section?

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone advise on which background check the FTC (or DOJ antitrust) uses for hiring of attorneys? I've heard conflicting things between SF-85 and SF-85P.

[Anonymous User]

In your experience, how useful is military service in getting an application noticed? I'm 10 point preference eligible (CPS) if that makes a difference!

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Thanks for sharing this! Any insight as to whether they'll be increasing the number of 2L summer / entry-level hires too? Had an OCI callback a couple weeks ago & trying to be patient (I know gov moves much more slowly than firms do) but hard not to feel nervous about it.

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Thanks for sharing this! Any insight as to whether they'll be increasing the number of 2L summer / entry-level hires too? Had an OCI callback a couple weeks ago & trying to be patient (I know gov moves much more slowly than firms do) but hard not to feel nervous about it.

I haven't heard anything about an uptick in hiring for 2L summer or 3L entry-level positions. That interview process can take awhile, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is a delay in hearing back. If it's been a few weeks, I would email just to ask if they have any update on when you can expect to hear back. This is especially true if you end up with an offer elsewhere. They will likely want to expedite the process if you need a response sooner. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Is this your impression re: the bureau of competition only or does it extend to the bureau of consumer protection?

[Anonymous User]

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Is this your impression re: the bureau of competition only or does it extend to the bureau of consumer protection?

I’m not sure what’s going on in BCP. I assume so but they’re probably less in the political crosshairs. A surprising wall between the bureaus.

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Thanks for the update. Are you expecting a new posting for Bureau of Competition or is the hiring coming from an existing pool of applicants? Do you have a sense whether biglaw candidates have any shot in the current environment?

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Thanks for the update. Are you expecting a new posting for Bureau of Competition or is the hiring coming from an existing pool of applicants? Do you have a sense whether biglaw candidates have any shot in the current environment?

I believe it’s a mix of both pulling from the existing candidate pool and also a new listing. I know for sure they plan to create a new listing. I would still apply again, even if you applied in the previous round. I’m not aware of any downside to resubmitting.

I assume the Commission will state a preference for non-Big Law but everyone doing the actual hiring will still likely focus on Big Law. A background in BL is typically the most relevant work experience, and the agency is filled with people who lateraled in from a firm. There is just no other way to get that experience short of working at the DOJ. Especially with attrition, I imagine most divisions will focus on people who can jump in and contribute right away. Staff certainly don’t feel the same misgivings about firm work or doubt the sincerity of anyone trying to make that jump.

I would seriously consider your potential conflicts when identifying a division preference though. The big investigations and litigations (i.e. Facebook) seemingly have touched half the firms in DC. I would make sure you know of any conflicts before listing TED, for example. It’s obviously a non-starter for certain divisions.

[Anonymous User]

If anyone is still interested, the FTC is preparing to hire a bunch of people. Each division could hire up to three people soon. I would try to make your preference for a division known, either by reaching out to someone in a division or stating in application materials. It's going to be a cluster internally with so many divisions hiring from the same pool, so highlighting a preference for a specific division(s) may make you more appealing.

The morale of the agency is pretty low right now. The stories coming out about internal divisions don't even really do justice to how disjointed and unstable it feels internally. A lot of attrition right now and more seems imminent. That said, if you're interested and can wait it out some, then this is probably a great time to get into the agency. I assume things will calm down eventually.

Thanks for the update. Are you expecting a new posting for Bureau of Competition or is the hiring coming from an existing pool of applicants? Do you have a sense whether biglaw candidates have any shot in the current environment?

I believe it’s a mix of both pulling from the existing candidate pool and also a new listing. I know for sure they plan to create a new listing. I would still apply again, even if you applied in the previous round. I’m not aware of any downside to resubmitting.

I assume the Commission will state a preference for non-Big Law but everyone doing the actual hiring will still likely focus on Big Law. A background in BL is typically the most relevant work experience, and the agency is filled with people who lateraled in from a firm. There is just no other way to get that experience short of working at the DOJ. Especially with attrition, I imagine most divisions will focus on people who can jump in and contribute right away. Staff certainly don’t feel the same misgivings about firm work or doubt the sincerity of anyone trying to make that jump.

I would seriously consider your potential conflicts when identifying a division preference though. The big investigations and litigations (i.e. Facebook) seemingly have touched half the firms in DC. I would make sure you know of any conflicts before listing TED, for example. It’s obviously a non-starter for certain divisions.

Can you advise on what the background check is for these jobs? I know I asked this earlier but wanted to see if maybe someone on the inside could respond before I give up on asking. I've heard conflicting things between the SF-85 and SF-85P.

[Anonymous User]

I believe it’s a mix of both pulling from the existing candidate pool and also a new listing. I know for sure they plan to create a new listing. I would still apply again, even if you applied in the previous round. I’m not aware of any downside to resubmitting.

I assume the Commission will state a preference for non-Big Law but everyone doing the actual hiring will still likely focus on Big Law. A background in BL is typically the most relevant work experience, and the agency is filled with people who lateraled in from a firm. There is just no other way to get that experience short of working at the DOJ. Especially with attrition, I imagine most divisions will focus on people who can jump in and contribute right away. Staff certainly don’t feel the same misgivings about firm work or doubt the sincerity of anyone trying to make that jump.

I would seriously consider your potential conflicts when identifying a division preference though. The big investigations and litigations (i.e. Facebook) seemingly have touched half the firms in DC. I would make sure you know of any conflicts before listing TED, for example. It’s obviously a non-starter for certain divisions.

Can you advise on what the background check is for these jobs? I know I asked this earlier but wanted to see if maybe someone on the inside could respond before I give up on asking. I've heard conflicting things between the SF-85 and SF-85P.
[/quote]

This was the form I filled out: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/of0306.pdf

I’m not aware of either an SF-85 or SF-85P. This was the closest thing I had to provide related to a background check. If you’re worried about drug use, I don’t think it will come up. I’ve never heard of others who had to disclose anything like that. I’ve heard of people who get randomly screened with follow-up interviews on issues, but that was during their employment and seemingly at random.

You will likely have to disclose past arrests if it was within the past 7 years (or terms of post-conviction extended within the past 7 years). Read the terms closely though. You don’t have to disclose any conviction that has been expunged. I’m not sure what happens if you disclose something, and whether that’s an immediate bar from employment.

[Anonymous User]

Can you advise on what the background check is for these jobs? I know I asked this earlier but wanted to see if maybe someone on the inside could respond before I give up on asking. I've heard conflicting things between the SF-85 and SF-85P.

This was the form I filled out: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/of0306.pdf

I’m not aware of either an SF-85 or SF-85P. This was the closest thing I had to provide related to a background check. If you’re worried about drug use, I don’t think it will come up. I’ve never heard of others who had to disclose anything like that. I’ve heard of people who get randomly screened with follow-up interviews on issues, but that was during their employment and seemingly at random.

You will likely have to disclose past arrests if it was within the past 7 years (or terms of post-conviction extended within the past 7 years). Read the terms closely though. You don’t have to disclose any conviction that has been expunged. I’m not sure what happens if you disclose something, and whether that’s an immediate bar from employment.

DOJ has a more robust process - SF-85p and FBI interviews. Most things (travel, drugs, etc...) go back 7 years, but a couple questions go back longer. I don't know if things have changed, but I've heard that any drug use in that time is a DQ.

I've also heard that FTC is not a very pleasant place to work these days, though hopefully that will settle down over time. I could also go off on a tangent about how the commission's reputed "no former biglaw" hiring policy systematically screws over first generation students and other law students without trust funds who had to pay off loans or support family out of law school, but the "progressives" on the commission, most of who came from quite privileged backgrounds, seem to have other priorities.

[nixy]

I’m sure it varies by office etc but if you go to LinkedIn and look for current FTC attorneys there are definitely people who worked in biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

I’m sure it varies by office etc but if you go to LinkedIn and look for current FTC attorneys there are definitely people who worked in biglaw.

For sure, and they'll probably still hire some more given the available applicant pool. The rumor (I'm not in the FTC so I can't confirm) is that the politicals have recently directed staff to try and avoid those hires in general.

[jimmythecatdied6]

Can you advise on what the background check is for these jobs? I know I asked this earlier but wanted to see if maybe someone on the inside could respond before I give up on asking. I've heard conflicting things between the SF-85 and SF-85P.

This was the form I filled out: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/of0306.pdf

I’m not aware of either an SF-85 or SF-85P. This was the closest thing I had to provide related to a background check. If you’re worried about drug use, I don’t think it will come up. I’ve never heard of others who had to disclose anything like that. I’ve heard of people who get randomly screened with follow-up interviews on issues, but that was during their employment and seemingly at random.

You will likely have to disclose past arrests if it was within the past 7 years (or terms of post-conviction extended within the past 7 years). Read the terms closely though. You don’t have to disclose any conviction that has been expunged. I’m not sure what happens if you disclose something, and whether that’s an immediate bar from employment.

DOJ has a more robust process - SF-85p and FBI interviews. Most things (travel, drugs, etc...) go back 7 years, but a couple questions go back longer. I don't know if things have changed, but I've heard that any drug use in that time is a DQ.

I've also heard that FTC is not a very pleasant place to work these days, though hopefully that will settle down over time. I could also go off on a tangent about how the commission's reputed "no former biglaw" hiring policy systematically screws over first generation students and other law students without trust funds who had to pay off loans or support family out of law school, but the "progressives" on the commission, most of who came from quite privileged backgrounds, seem to have other priorities.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Just another example of how crazy FTC has been these days.

[Anonymous User]

I’m sure it varies by office etc but if you go to LinkedIn and look for current FTC attorneys there are definitely people who worked in biglaw.

For sure, and they'll probably still hire some more given the available applicant pool. The rumor (I'm not in the FTC so I can't confirm) is that the politicals have recently directed staff to try and avoid those hires in general.

FWIW, I’m at the agency and haven’t heard that. I’ve been through the hiring process on this end a few times now and the resumes are pretty much divided between the 20’ish BL applications with relevant experience and then everyone else. The possible exception are some DOJ attorneys who want to lateral and maybe a handful of in-house. The BL applicants have made up the vast (if not all) of the people chosen for interviews in my experience. There is just no replacing relevant experience and it’s a somewhat niche practice area.

The divisions themselves are pretty much split in half between straight from law school (usually 2L summer interns who got offers to come back) and BL laterals. No shortage of former BL associates. They can claim a change in priority but I doubt that will actually materialize in actual hiring. I wouldn’t let whatever they say about BL deter you from applying.

The morale of the agency is without question pretty low right now and a lot of weird things happening. But, a great time to get into the agency with all of the hiring. Also a great time to join if you’re looking for litigation experience right away. I expect we’ll be litigating a lot in the near future, and you’ll get thrown off the deep end with responsibility for better or worse. If on a litigation or investigation headed for litigation, you should very much expect to take your own IH/depos and get thrown into litigation-focused work (i.e expert work, etc.) right away if you’re interested in building those skills. At the very least you should expect to have a lot of responsibility guiding an investigation and getting that experience early on.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything from the DOJ Antitrust posting that closed in August?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything from the DOJ Antitrust posting that closed in August?

They have begun interviews but are still early in the process. One big difference than other hiring postings is that it’s only 1 interview (not two rounds).