Dropping in 1st semester at T14 Forum

[AReasonableMan]

Re: which is better, school or work - I like my job (also not at a firm), and while I definitely like free time better than I like my job, I didn't have a lot of free time in school because I did a ton of shit so I'd be able to get this job. Beyond that, though, once you've been a grownup, school is annoying. Like, if I could be independently wealthy and not work? Excellent. Going back to school? It's like the opposite of being a grownup (not just bc you don't have responsibilities, but because you don't have any control over the system). I don't miss that at all.

Positives of school are free time, learning new things all the time, there's an "end" at the end of each semester, rather than continuous churning forever until death, etc. You can also pick and choose what assignments to tackle since for the most part it's useless for the exams. I also have very limited control in my job, so I felt like I had a lot more control in school. If I didn't feel like going to class one day, I wouldn't. If that happened at work, at a lot of places you'd be fired.

I don't mean there aren't any positives about school. I just think school-control is the limited control of a rat in a maze. You're still infantilized. Employed, you're an adult. But to be fair, I never felt that way until I went back to school after having a career. (I enjoyed school fine, there's just a point when being in school sucks.)

I agree with this. If you' were earning an income and paying off your college debt then leaving that only to incur more debt sucks, because the whole time you're keenly aware you'll be spending a large portion of your life paying for this experience, and the experience isn't fun. In addition, it's all fake made up work so getting good grades doesn't feel great, and getting bad grades feels bad, because you're probably a competitive person if you're at t-14 school.

There's also the fact that hardwork doesn't guarantee anything so you don't feel particularly good about yourself after putting in a productive 12-hour study day. Contrarily, even if the work you do in practice is boring, you can at least go home after a 12-hour day knowing you contributed to the team and earned a day's pay.

If any of this is directed back towards my initial school versus work comparison, for what it's worth, I completely agree with the first paragraph here and nony's comment preceding it; my post was heavily laced with the crucial caveat that school is only positive in the abstract, and borrowing money to attend flips the inequality. Knowing what you're paying both in the moment and for the next decade and what you're receiving for it is eternally damning, not so much the quality of the years themselves taken in isolation. Incidentally, I actually think a lot of my rich friends liked/like law school.

I think it's likelier for rich kids to invest more of their self concept in having good grades. To me and probably to you, intelligence is nothing more than a tool to help one get money so some external verification that you're smart (i.e. good grades) only has value to the extent it helps you get money.

[Anonymous User]

Re: which is better, school or work - I like my job (also not at a firm), and while I definitely like free time better than I like my job, I didn't have a lot of free time in school because I did a ton of shit so I'd be able to get this job. Beyond that, though, once you've been a grownup, school is annoying. Like, if I could be independently wealthy and not work? Excellent. Going back to school? It's like the opposite of being a grownup (not just bc you don't have responsibilities, but because you don't have any control over the system). I don't miss that at all.

Positives of school are free time, learning new things all the time, there's an "end" at the end of each semester, rather than continuous churning forever until death, etc. You can also pick and choose what assignments to tackle since for the most part it's useless for the exams. I also have very limited control in my job, so I felt like I had a lot more control in school. If I didn't feel like going to class one day, I wouldn't. If that happened at work, at a lot of places you'd be fired.

I don't mean there aren't any positives about school. I just think school-control is the limited control of a rat in a maze. You're still infantilized. Employed, you're an adult. But to be fair, I never felt that way until I went back to school after having a career. (I enjoyed school fine, there's just a point when being in school sucks.)

I agree with this. If you' were earning an income and paying off your college debt then leaving that only to incur more debt sucks, because the whole time you're keenly aware you'll be spending a large portion of your life paying for this experience, and the experience isn't fun. In addition, it's all fake made up work so getting good grades doesn't feel great, and getting bad grades feels bad, because you're probably a competitive person if you're at t-14 school.

There's also the fact that hardwork doesn't guarantee anything so you don't feel particularly good about yourself after putting in a productive 12-hour study day. Contrarily, even if the work you do in practice is boring, you can at least go home after a 12-hour day knowing you contributed to the team and earned a day's pay.

Nothing's been more depressing than going from working hard 1L, being rewarded with a good summer associate gig, and then having real life come crashing down on you while you are still in school, leading you to scrounge to just pay rent after taking on utterly unexpected expenses.

Trust me when I say that nothing makes school suck worse than unexpected life bullshit when you have no outside support and no job for two more years. Free time doesn't mean shit when you don't have the means to enjoy it.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think it's likelier for rich kids to invest more of their self concept in having good grades. To me and probably to you, intelligence is nothing more than a tool to help one get money so some external verification that you're smart (i.e. good grades) only has value to the extent it helps you get money.

This seems an odd generalization.

[jbagelboy]

I agree with this. If you' were earning an income and paying off your college debt then leaving that only to incur more debt sucks, because the whole time you're keenly aware you'll be spending a large portion of your life paying for this experience, and the experience isn't fun. In addition, it's all fake made up work so getting good grades doesn't feel great, and getting bad grades feels bad, because you're probably a competitive person if you're at t-14 school.

There's also the fact that hardwork doesn't guarantee anything so you don't feel particularly good about yourself after putting in a productive 12-hour study day. Contrarily, even if the work you do in practice is boring, you can at least go home after a 12-hour day knowing you contributed to the team and earned a day's pay.

If any of this is directed back towards my initial school versus work comparison, for what it's worth, I completely agree with the first paragraph here and nony's comment preceding it; my post was heavily laced with the crucial caveat that school is only positive in the abstract, and borrowing money to attend flips the inequality. Knowing what you're paying both in the moment and for the next decade and what you're receiving for it is eternally damning, not so much the quality of the years themselves taken in isolation. Incidentally, I actually think a lot of my rich friends liked/like law school.

I think it's likelier for rich kids to invest more of their self concept in having good grades. To me and probably to you, intelligence is nothing more than a tool to help one get money so some external verification that you're smart (i.e. good grades) only has value to the extent it helps you get money.

If 'money' is a proxy for 'success at finding interesting work/happiness', then yes. Getting good grades doesn't correlate that strongly with making the most money for my classmates though since the most lucrative options, working at a large firm for many years or in the financial industry, don't require the sort of excellence that less well paying options in the public sector demand. I know this varies a lot, but at these schools, the high paying private sector jobs are the norm that many of us strive to ultimately get away from.

[krads153]

I agree with this. If you' were earning an income and paying off your college debt then leaving that only to incur more debt sucks, because the whole time you're keenly aware you'll be spending a large portion of your life paying for this experience, and the experience isn't fun. In addition, it's all fake made up work so getting good grades doesn't feel great, and getting bad grades feels bad, because you're probably a competitive person if you're at t-14 school.

There's also the fact that hardwork doesn't guarantee anything so you don't feel particularly good about yourself after putting in a productive 12-hour study day. Contrarily, even if the work you do in practice is boring, you can at least go home after a 12-hour day knowing you contributed to the team and earned a day's pay.

If any of this is directed back towards my initial school versus work comparison, for what it's worth, I completely agree with the first paragraph here and nony's comment preceding it; my post was heavily laced with the crucial caveat that school is only positive in the abstract, and borrowing money to attend flips the inequality. Knowing what you're paying both in the moment and for the next decade and what you're receiving for it is eternally damning, not so much the quality of the years themselves taken in isolation. Incidentally, I actually think a lot of my rich friends liked/like law school.

I think it's likelier for rich kids to invest more of their self concept in having good grades. To me and probably to you, intelligence is nothing more than a tool to help one get money so some external verification that you're smart (i.e. good grades) only has value to the extent it helps you get money.

If 'money' is a proxy for 'success at finding interesting work/happiness', then yes. Getting good grades doesn't correlate that strongly with making the most money for my classmates though since the most lucrative options, working at a large firm for many years or in the financial industry, don't require the sort of excellence that less well paying options in the public sector demand. I know this varies a lot, but at these schools, the high paying private sector jobs are the norm that many of us strive to ultimately get away from.

A lot of these less well paying jobs look at other stuff besides grades though - like prior work experience, dedication, languages, etc. I think grades are probably most important for private sector jobs unless we're talking about "top ranked" public sector jobs/clerkships/etc.

[zot1]

Grades matter no matter what. Sure, some public interest and government jobs will weigh heavily your relevant experience, but at the end of the day, all resumes are packed with crap and the difference between the 3.5 and the 3.0 kid will matter. That aside, it is totally possible to not do so well first semester and then bring your grades up. But that's a process and not an easy one.

[AReasonableMan]

I agree with this. If you' were earning an income and paying off your college debt then leaving that only to incur more debt sucks, because the whole time you're keenly aware you'll be spending a large portion of your life paying for this experience, and the experience isn't fun. In addition, it's all fake made up work so getting good grades doesn't feel great, and getting bad grades feels bad, because you're probably a competitive person if you're at t-14 school.

There's also the fact that hardwork doesn't guarantee anything so you don't feel particularly good about yourself after putting in a productive 12-hour study day. Contrarily, even if the work you do in practice is boring, you can at least go home after a 12-hour day knowing you contributed to the team and earned a day's pay.

If any of this is directed back towards my initial school versus work comparison, for what it's worth, I completely agree with the first paragraph here and nony's comment preceding it; my post was heavily laced with the crucial caveat that school is only positive in the abstract, and borrowing money to attend flips the inequality. Knowing what you're paying both in the moment and for the next decade and what you're receiving for it is eternally damning, not so much the quality of the years themselves taken in isolation. Incidentally, I actually think a lot of my rich friends liked/like law school.

I think it's likelier for rich kids to invest more of their self concept in having good grades. To me and probably to you, intelligence is nothing more than a tool to help one get money so some external verification that you're smart (i.e. good grades) only has value to the extent it helps you get money.

If 'money' is a proxy for 'success at finding interesting work/happiness', then yes. Getting good grades doesn't correlate that strongly with making the most money for my classmates though since the most lucrative options, working at a large firm for many years or in the financial industry, don't require the sort of excellence that less well paying options in the public sector demand. I know this varies a lot, but at these schools, the high paying private sector jobs are the norm that many of us strive to ultimately get away from.

That's why I was saying it's hard to get too happy about school.