UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

178 and want chicago transactional. ... assuming safest approach is to bid ny.... but if I do bid only chicago plus mail non OCI chicago, is it still a crazy risk?

Don't want to out myself but decent non GPA related softs and ties to chicago.

I was in a very similar spot last year - 178 and a decent resume. I got a fairly high number of offers in Chicago, including Sidley and Kirkland. I have a friend with a mid to high 178 who got a Sidley offer as well.

That's not to say this is typical, just that it's possible. Hustle a lot this summer. You should really bid some NYC firms, though. Would you rather have an offer at a small Chicago firm that does only lit/no offer or the chance at multiple offers at solid NYC transactional firms?

[WheninLaw]

Want lit, leaning just nyc, strong ties and some interesting softs, will interview well, 179 and change. Is anything off the table besides Wachtell? Is Boies in play?

Wachtell is 1% but might as well bid it at 50 since it doesn't fill. Boies is also unlikely. Otherwise, go hog wild.

Why the hell do you want to live in ny?

[Anonymous User]

should i put my gpa on my resume when mass mailing? also, in the email body should i copy-paste my cover letter or is it sufficient to just say like 'my name is X from Y, pls look at the attached stuff'

Thank yall for all the help by the way, really appreciate it

[Anonymous User]

I just attached everything and said I am applying for a 201X summer associate position, please see attached application materials. Also add in the subject line University of Chicago 2L or something along those lines. It might help to grab a recruiting persons eye.

As for your gpa, I didn't put anything about my grades and I still got some callbacks through mass mail. Im not sure what the right answer is. The higher your gpa the more helpful it might be. Don't do it if you're median or something lower would be my guess.

[2014]

I did cover letter in the body of the email and attached my transcript rather than putting my GPA on the resume. Also got callbacks this way.

I think the most crucial thing is the identifying yourself as U.Chicago in the subject line.

[skers]

Idk if I'd put my gpa on the resume b/c it doesn't really do much. Having a 3.7 or w/e from another school actually signals something. Having a 179 on your resume just looks like weird numbers. They're going to be confused and going to the transcript either way.

[Anonymous User]

178 and change. NYC corporate only. Thoughts?

1 Proskauer 21
2 Shearman 21
3 White & Case 21
4 Gibson Dunn 21
5 Kirkland & Ellis 21
6 Fried Frank 42
7 Latham 31
8 Paul Weiss 42
9 Davis Polk 42
10 Cleary 42
11 Skadden 42
12 Debevoise 63
13 Simpson 63
14 Ropes & Gray 42
15 SullCrom 42
16 Cravath 38
17 Cadwalader 21
18 Cooley 52
19 WilmerHale 21
20 Dechert 21
21 Freshfields 20
22 MoFo 21

[2014]

178 and change. NYC corporate only. Thoughts?

1 Proskauer 21
2 Shearman 21
3 White & Case 21
4 Gibson Dunn 21
5 Kirkland & Ellis 21
6 Fried Frank 42
7 Latham 31
8 Paul Weiss 42
9 Davis Polk 42
10 Cleary 42
11 Skadden 42
12 Debevoise 63
13 Simpson 63
14 Ropes & Gray 42
15 SullCrom 42
16 Cravath 38
17 Cadwalader 21
18 Cooley 52
19 WilmerHale 21
20 Dechert 21
21 Freshfields 20
22 MoFo 21

Cadwalader is a wasted bid down there, I'd move it up to 12 in front of Deb.

Simpson hires more UChi people than Deb and should be bid ahead of it.

I can't think of a reason why SullCrom shouldn't be bid in a block with PW, DPW, Cleary, and Skadden - they are all very similar and SullCrom hires too many UChi people to move it down because of perceived selectivity.

Your 19-22 bids are all a coin flip but there's no good place to move them up to, so it is what it is. I think you would be safe bumping one of them ahead of Cravath, but Cravath is important so you are justified in having it where you do to be safe.

Why no Weil?

[Anonymous User]

178 and change. NYC corporate only. Thoughts?

1 Proskauer 21
2 Shearman 21
3 White & Case 21
4 Gibson Dunn 21
5 Kirkland & Ellis 21
6 Fried Frank 42
7 Latham 31
8 Paul Weiss 42
9 Davis Polk 42
10 Cleary 42
11 Skadden 42
12 Debevoise 63
13 Simpson 63
14 Ropes & Gray 42
15 SullCrom 42
16 Cravath 38
17 Cadwalader 21
18 Cooley 52
19 WilmerHale 21
20 Dechert 21
21 Freshfields 20
22 MoFo 21

Cadwalader is a wasted bid down there, I'd move it up to 12 in front of Deb.

Simpson hires more UChi people than Deb and should be bid ahead of it.

I can't think of a reason why SullCrom shouldn't be bid in a block with PW, DPW, Cleary, and Skadden - they are all very similar and SullCrom hires too many UChi people to move it down because of perceived selectivity.

Your 19-22 bids are all a coin flip but there's no good place to move them up to, so it is what it is. I think you would be safe bumping one of them ahead of Cravath, but Cravath is important so you are justified in having it where you do to be safe.

Why no Weil?

Thanks! Only put SullCrom there because I thought I could get them at #15 but that I would lose Ropes if i put them lower, what do you think?

Didn't bid Weil because I've heard rumors they're not doing well or something, but if this isn't true then I'll bid on them, any suggestions on where they need to be?

[Anonymous User]

Grades: 179.5
URM/Female: nah
Work Exp: above average
Preferred Market: Seattle >Chicago
Practice Area: Lit
Misc: Strike out> work in NYC


What I'm wondering is how I should structure my bidlist. Can I get interviews with Seattle firms from the back half, or do I have to priortize the Seattle firms and risk missing out on the more competitive Chicago firms?

edit: to make up for being anon, you can refer to me as SonicsFan.

[beepboopbeep]

My only experience with Seattle bidding is throwing a joke bid at Perkins at, like, 40+, and getting a screener slot (that I cancelled out of respect for everyone's time). If that's possible I imagine all of Seattle doesn't fill up, but maybe some weirdness with firms that combine their Seattle slots with another, more popular office (like LA) or only have a really small handful of spots (4/6, but I'd guess even 6 won't fill). I would still not worry about it very much/would put those bids lower than Chicago firms, because 1) secondary markets never seem to fill up their interview slots IME, and 2) it's not a huge market, which = more risk even with your grades; since you'd take Chicago, I'd prioritize making sure you get the top stuff there, since those are harder to pick up later. Given the alias, I presume you have strong ties there?

Something I and probably others didn't really understand before going through the bidding/scheduling process is how easy it is to pick up more interviews after the schedules are released--there's an automated system, and you can also easily pop in at the beginning of the morning and pester them if it's something you care a lot about and didn't get through bidding.

Hope that helps--if anyone went hard at Seattle please correct anything I said that's wrong.

[WheninLaw]

My only experience with Seattle bidding is throwing a joke bid at Perkins at, like, 40+, and getting a screener slot (that I cancelled out of respect for everyone's time). If that's possible I imagine all of Seattle doesn't fill up, but maybe some weirdness with firms that combine their Seattle slots with another, more popular office (like LA) or only have a really small handful of spots (4/6, but I'd guess even 6 won't fill). I would still not worry about it very much/would put those bids lower than Chicago firms, because 1) secondary markets never seem to fill up their interview slots IME, and 2) it's not a huge market, which = more risk even with your grades; since you'd take Chicago, I'd prioritize making sure you get the top stuff there, since those are harder to pick up later. Given the alias, I presume you have strong ties there?

Something I and probably others didn't really understand before going through the bidding/scheduling process is how easy it is to pick up more interviews after the schedules are released--there's an automated system, and you can also easily pop in at the beginning of the morning and pester them if it's something you care a lot about and didn't get through bidding.

Hope that helps--if anyone went hard at Seattle please correct anything I said that's wrong.

This seems like great advice.

SonicsFan (gross): I think the best bet would be to email people working in Seattle (K.P., L.A., etc) for specific advice. I wouldn't be surprised if they could forward your resume right along. PM me if you need contact info.

[skers]

Grades: 179.5
URM/Female: nah
Work Exp: above average
Preferred Market: Seattle >Chicago
Practice Area: Lit
Misc: Strike out> work in NYC


What I'm wondering is how I should structure my bidlist. Can I get interviews with Seattle firms from the back half, or do I have to priortize the Seattle firms and risk missing out on the more competitive Chicago firms?

edit: to make up for being anon, you can refer to me as SonicsFan.

I just want to say that this is fucking retarded.

[Anonymous User]

SonicsFan here

@beep & Whenin,

Thanks for the advice. Sounds in line with what I've heard elsewhere. Whenin, I'll hit you up with a PM if I can't find names off the who worked where list.

@skers,

I actually agree with you, and would give the same advice in your shoes, probably less politely. Not going to get into my life story, but trust me- I'm fully aware of both the benefits of bidding NYC and the consequences of striking out at OCI.

[N.P.H.]

178 and change. NYC corporate only. Thoughts?

1 Proskauer 21
2 Shearman 21
3 White & Case 21
4 Gibson Dunn 21
5 Kirkland & Ellis 21
6 Fried Frank 42
7 Latham 31
8 Paul Weiss 42
9 Davis Polk 42
10 Cleary 42
11 Skadden 42
12 Debevoise 63
13 Simpson 63
14 Ropes & Gray 42
15 SullCrom 42
16 Cravath 38
17 Cadwalader 21
18 Cooley 52
19 WilmerHale 21
20 Dechert 21
21 Freshfields 20
22 MoFo 21

Cadwalader is a wasted bid down there, I'd move it up to 12 in front of Deb.

Simpson hires more UChi people than Deb and should be bid ahead of it.

I can't think of a reason why SullCrom shouldn't be bid in a block with PW, DPW, Cleary, and Skadden - they are all very similar and SullCrom hires too many UChi people to move it down because of perceived selectivity.

Your 19-22 bids are all a coin flip but there's no good place to move them up to, so it is what it is. I think you would be safe bumping one of them ahead of Cravath, but Cravath is important so you are justified in having it where you do to be safe.

Why no Weil?

Thanks! Only put SullCrom there because I thought I could get them at #15 but that I would lose Ropes if i put them lower, what do you think?

Didn't bid Weil because I've heard rumors they're not doing well or something, but if this isn't true then I'll bid on them, any suggestions on where they need to be?

You at least risk not getting sullcrom that low. But lots of people canceled their sullcrom interview my year so you could pick it up - not sure if they're still interviewing late(r).

Weil had post-lehman layoffs but I don't think you should be too worried about that happening anytime soon. Still a good firm, but whether they are worth a bid is up to you. I feel like you don't need that many safeties so high but without any info on interviewing skill, URM, w/e it's hard to tell for sure and i'd hate to say that and have you strike out.

Agree cadwalader is wasted that low. It's less grade-selective so you'll be fighting with more people for the slots.

[N.P.H.]

@skers,

I actually agree with you, and would give the same advice in your shoes, probably less politely. Not going to get into my life story, but trust me- I'm fully aware of both the benefits of bidding NYC and the consequences of striking out at OCI.

You should be fine with your grades but it's still a pretty dumb mindset to have. You can always lateral after a few years and be way ahead of where you'd be in a world where you struck out. Don't be short-sighted.

Less-desirable firm in Chicago > NYC is more understandable.

[Anonymous User]

I really have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to bid lists, but here is my attempt. I have a 179 and change and am only interested in corporate work in Houston and NY. Want to bid to maximize the amount of interviews in both markets, but make sure I get a chance at all the preftige .

The firms I want to make sure I interview with in Houston are L&W, V&E, KE, BB, Norton Rose, and JW (in no particular order). For NY, it's all about preftige and Paul Hastings (don't ask).

Anyways, thanks in advance. Here goes nothing.

1. Paul Hastings NY 7 spots
2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 shared spots
3. Gibson Dunn NY 21 spots shared
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared
5. White & Case NY 21 spots
6. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots
7. Shearman & Stearling NY 21 spots
8. Kirkland Ellis Houston 21 spots
9. Milbank Tweed NY 21 spots
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared
11. Proskauer Rose NY 21 spots
12. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared
13. Morrison & Foerster NY 21 spots shared
14. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared
15. Cadwalader NY 21 spots
16. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots
17. WilmerHale NY 21 spots
18. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots shared
19. Cravath NY 38 spots
20. Simpson Thacher NY 63 spots shared
21. Sullivan & Cromwell NY 42 spots
22. Davis Polk NY 42 spots
23. Skadden NY 42 spots
24. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 spots
25. Paul Weiss NY 42 spots
26. Ropes & Gray NY 42 spots
27. Fried Frank NY 42 spots
28. Wachtell NY 42 spots
29. Debevoise & Plimpton NY 63 spots
30. Freshfields NY 20 spots shared
31. Allen & Overy NY 15 spots
32. Dechert NY 21 spots
33. Foley & Lardner NY 21 spots shared
34. Sheppard Mullin NY 21 spots
35. cooley llp NY 42 spots shared

[2014]

178 and change. NYC corporate only. Thoughts?

1 Proskauer 21
2 Shearman 21
3 White & Case 21
4 Gibson Dunn 21
5 Kirkland & Ellis 21
6 Fried Frank 42
7 Latham 31
8 Paul Weiss 42
9 Davis Polk 42
10 Cleary 42
11 Skadden 42
12 Debevoise 63
13 Simpson 63
14 Ropes & Gray 42
15 SullCrom 42
16 Cravath 38
17 Cadwalader 21
18 Cooley 52
19 WilmerHale 21
20 Dechert 21
21 Freshfields 20
22 MoFo 21

Cadwalader is a wasted bid down there, I'd move it up to 12 in front of Deb.

Simpson hires more UChi people than Deb and should be bid ahead of it.

I can't think of a reason why SullCrom shouldn't be bid in a block with PW, DPW, Cleary, and Skadden - they are all very similar and SullCrom hires too many UChi people to move it down because of perceived selectivity.

Your 19-22 bids are all a coin flip but there's no good place to move them up to, so it is what it is. I think you would be safe bumping one of them ahead of Cravath, but Cravath is important so you are justified in having it where you do to be safe.

Why no Weil?

Thanks! Only put SullCrom there because I thought I could get them at #15 but that I would lose Ropes if i put them lower, what do you think?

Didn't bid Weil because I've heard rumors they're not doing well or something, but if this isn't true then I'll bid on them, any suggestions on where they need to be?

Their layoffs were not ideal but they were pretty foreseeable. Also other firms on the list have equally bad reps for other reasons so I think it's probably early to toss Weil but not the end of the world if you do. They have a legitimately good corporate group and itd be tough to justify taking like Dechert NY over them. If you put them in Id go right ahead of Latham assuming weil is still 21 slots. If they've gone to 42 put them below sullcrom (after moving it up behind skadden)

[N.P.H.]

I really have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to bid lists, but here is my attempt. I have a 179 and change and am only interested in corporate work in Houston and NY. Want to bid to maximize the amount of interviews in both markets, but make sure I get a chance at all the preftige .

The firms I want to make sure I interview with in Houston are L&W, V&E, KE, BB, Norton Rose, and JW (in no particular order). For NY, it's all about preftige and Paul Hastings (don't ask).

Anyways, thanks in advance. Here goes nothing.

1. Paul Hastings NY 7 spots
2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 shared spots
3. Gibson Dunn NY 21 spots shared
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared
5. White & Case NY 21 spots
6. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots
7. Shearman & Stearling NY 21 spots
8. Kirkland Ellis Houston 21 spots
9. Milbank Tweed NY 21 spots
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared
11. Proskauer Rose NY 21 spots
12. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared
13. Morrison & Foerster NY 21 spots shared
14. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared
15. Cadwalader NY 21 spots
16. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots
17. WilmerHale NY 21 spots
18. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots shared
19. Cravath NY 38 spots
20. Simpson Thacher NY 63 spots shared
21. Sullivan & Cromwell NY 42 spots
22. Davis Polk NY 42 spots
23. Skadden NY 42 spots
24. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 spots
25. Paul Weiss NY 42 spots
26. Ropes & Gray NY 42 spots
27. Fried Frank NY 42 spots
28. Wachtell NY 42 spots
29. Debevoise & Plimpton NY 63 spots
30. Freshfields NY 20 spots shared
31. Allen & Overy NY 15 spots
32. Dechert NY 21 spots
33. Foley & Lardner NY 21 spots shared
34. Sheppard Mullin NY 21 spots
35. Cooley LLP NY 42 spots shared

It doesn't seem to me that NY is all bout prestige from this list. You're over-competitive for many of the firms that are near the top of your bidlist. While it makes sense to have them high because people with worse grades will be bidding them, you're equally as competitive for more prestigious firms with better corporate departments and larger class sizes. Check out chambers and partners and get rid of the safeties. Right now you're looking to miss out on most of the top firms in your 20s which is kind of crazy.

I can't really comment on Houston (except that maybe KE should be higher because people recognize the name and the summer bonuses).

[2014]

1. Paul Hastings NY 7 spots - Hit
2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 shared spots - Hit
3. Gibson Dunn NY 21 spots shared - Hit
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared - Hit
5. White & Case NY 21 spots - Hit
6. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots - Hit
7. Shearman & Stearling NY 21 spots - 90% Hit
8. Kirkland Ellis Houston 21 spots - 80% Hit
9. Milbank Tweed NY 21 spots - 90% Hit
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared - Hit
11. Proskauer Rose NY 21 spots - Miss
12. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared - Hit
13. Morrison & Foerster NY 21 spots shared - Miss
14. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared - 50/50
15. Cadwalader NY 21 spots - Miss
16. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots - Hit
17. WilmerHale NY 21 spots - 60/40 Miss/Hit
18. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots shared - Hit
19. Cravath NY 38 spots - 70% Hit
20. Simpson Thacher NY 63 spots shared - 80% Hit
21. Sullivan & Cromwell NY 42 spots - 50/50
22. Davis Polk NY 42 spots - Miss
23. Skadden NY 42 spots - Miss
24. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 spots - Miss
25. Paul Weiss NY 42 spots - Miss
26. Ropes & Gray NY 42 spots - 80/20 Miss/Hit
27. Fried Frank NY 42 spots - Miss
28. Wachtell NY 42 spots - Hit
29. Debevoise & Plimpton NY 63 spots - 80/20 Miss/Hit
30. Freshfields NY 20 spots shared - Miss
31. Allen & Overy NY 15 spots - Miss
32. Dechert NY 21 spots - Miss
33. Foley & Lardner NY 21 spots shared - Miss
34. Sheppard Mullin NY 21 spots - Miss
35. Cooley LLP NY 42 spots shared - Miss

Agree w/ NPH - My opinion on hits and misses are above. Moral is with this list you will get all of your Texas ones easily (sans Baker Hostetler because they do a shit ton of offices in those 18 slots) and are going to have like 3 NY screeners, 1 of which is Wachtell.

[Jaqen]

I really have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to bid lists, but here is my attempt. I have a 179 and change and am only interested in corporate work in Houston and NY. Want to bid to maximize the amount of interviews in both markets, but make sure I get a chance at all the preftige .

The firms I want to make sure I interview with in Houston are L&W, V&E, KE, BB, Norton Rose, and JW (in no particular order). For NY, it's all about preftige and Paul Hastings (don't ask).

Anyways, thanks in advance. Here goes nothing.

2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 shared spots
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared
6. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots
8. Kirkland Ellis Houston 21 spots
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared
12. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared
14. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared
16. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots
18. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots shared

You can get the TX firms lower than this (aside from those sharing spots outside of Texas). Several didn't fill up last year and several more barely filled. I think the mid teens is a good compromise, maybe throwing the ones unlikely to fill (Sidley, perhaps Jackson Walker) into the 20s.

[Anonymous User]

I finished with ~179, does anyone know where that leaves me for LA corporate (which firms)? I am working in LA this summer and am from here, so I have ties.

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous User]

Texas / NY Corporate back again. I tried following your advice. Will I hit the NY firms? I can follow Jaqen's advice and drop the Texas firms lower or do other changes to make sure I hit the NY ones.

1. Gibson Dunn NY 21 spots shared
2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 spots shared
3. Cravath NY 38 spots
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared
5. Simpson Thacher NY 63 spots shared
6. Kirkland & Ellis Houston 21 spots
7. Sullivan & Cromwell NY 42 spots
8. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots
9. Skadden NY 42 spots
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared
11. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 spots
12. Paul Weiss NY 42 spots
13. Davis Polk NY 42 spots
14. Fried Frank NY 42 spots
15. Ropes & Gray NY 42 spots
16. Debevoise & Plimpton NY 63 spots
17. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared
18. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared
19. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots
20. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots
21. Wachtell NY 42 spots

[WheninLaw]

I finished with ~179, does anyone know where that leaves me for LA corporate (which firms)? I am working in LA this summer and am from here, so I have ties.

Thanks in advance!

Assuming no special snowflake attributes, all firms should be in play except for Munger (one Corporate client) and possibly not Irell (Entertainment/Transactional), so not a big loss. Latham seems the big cheese for L.A. corporate.

[N.P.H.]

Texas / NY Corporate back again. I tried following your advice. Will I hit the NY firms? I can follow Jaqen's advice and drop the Texas firms lower or do other changes to make sure I hit the NY ones.

1. Gibson Dunn NY 21 spots shared
2. Latham & Watkins Houston 22 spots shared
3. Cravath NY 38 spots
4. Vinson & Elkins Houston 21 spots shared
5. Simpson Thacher NY 63 spots shared
6. Kirkland & Ellis Houston 21 spots
7. Sullivan & Cromwell NY 42 spots
8. Baker Botts Houston 21 spots
9. Skadden NY 42 spots
10. Norton Rose Fulbright Houston 21 spots shared
11. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 spots
12. Paul Weiss NY 42 spots
13. Davis Polk NY 42 spots
14. Fried Frank NY 42 spots
15. Ropes & Gray NY 42 spots
16. Debevoise & Plimpton NY 63 spots
17. Jackson Walker Houston 21 spots shared
18. BakerHostetler Houston 18 spots shared
19. Sidley Austin Houston 21 spots
20. Winston & Strawn Houston 21 spots
21. Wachtell NY 42 spots

Looks like you're hitting everything NY but Skadden (bump a couple) PW (bump a few) FF (bump a lot) Ropes (same). Maybe on Deb and Cleary (depends on the year).