Northwestern OCI Forum

[bjsesq]

Fuck Winston. That is all.

haven't forgotten about your class, and continue to tell everyone about it as we approach oci. sorry man

Meh, ignore my butthurt. I just love to vent. In all seriousness regarding them: there are still rumblings that all is not well in mudville, so use caution.

[homestyle28]

Fuck Winston. That is all.

Word. It was one of the great days in TLS history when you got your current job brother.

Never forget!

[homestyle28]

Echoing what others have said wrt 3.6 in Chicago. There are a few selective boutiques to avoid (Grippo, Barrack) but everything is in play. I would pick 2 of Skadden/Kirkland/Sidley depending on what you want/your background. I tend to think Sidley goes a little more forbookish/quirky types than Skadden/Kirkland. If you'e got some sort of interesting humanitarian/lib credential then Jenner would be a good bet. Mayer, Winston, Jones Day are all right in your sweet spot.

Should all of these firms be in our top 8? I haven't heard anyone really talk about where you have to bid Skadden/Latham/MB/JD/Winston. Are they still going to be in that 1-8 range that DF talks about?

I wouldn't say all 8 b/c your top 10 needs to be a balance of "reach, target and safe*" firms. Depending on your market considerations, you might want to throw some non-Chicago firms in there too. I think the standard thinking wrt GPA and firms is that you want 2-3 where your GPA is on their low end, 3-4 where you're right in the middle, and 2-3 that you're at the top end. I'd look for places you feel mildly more enthusiastic about to help distinguish, also consider class sizes.

* There are no safe firms. You'll be tempted to think that when you see the GPA ranges about firms like Reed Smith, Chapman or other National firms that pay just under market. But they'll know you think that about them, and more likely than not it'll show in your interviews.

[igo2northwestern]

Echoing what others have said wrt 3.6 in Chicago. There are a few selective boutiques to avoid (Grippo, Barrack) but everything is in play. I would pick 2 of Skadden/Kirkland/Sidley depending on what you want/your background. I tend to think Sidley goes a little more forbookish/quirky types than Skadden/Kirkland. If you'e got some sort of interesting humanitarian/lib credential then Jenner would be a good bet. Mayer, Winston, Jones Day are all right in your sweet spot.

Should all of these firms be in our top 8? I haven't heard anyone really talk about where you have to bid Skadden/Latham/MB/JD/Winston. Are they still going to be in that 1-8 range that DF talks about?

I don't remember the specific numbers for bidding, but I just want to make sure that you understand that the # of interview slots for each firm may vary from year to year. For example, I remember there weren't very many Latham slots (non-Chicago office), and I didn't get a screener even when placing them as #1. And in that situation, you should take advantage of their hospitality suites and/or e-mail in advance to express interest. They'll usually make space for you then.

A lot of these comments re: various firms might tell you the general leaning of a past class of students, but your bidding will depend on things like your class' interest in various markets, # interview slots for the office, and the general reputation of the firm. It's tougher to feel out your class interest--I know CA received a meaningfully lower interest a few years back that helped net some students a lot of interviews vs. last year where bidding CA netted fewer screeners--but focus also on the interview slots and how they vary from firm to firm. You've heard on the forum that K&E gave out 80 slots back then; for me, I did not bid them high (I think it was the 8-10 range) and got an interview.

[zugzwanger]

I know I've been asking a million questions about Chicago legal market, but I'm wondering concretely how strong the ties have to be? A 3L last semester said that it's not really an issue if you are already from the midwest because it's obvious that Chicago > hometown/home state etc.

I'm from the region and have wanted to be in Chicago for years, although I don't really have family out here. I'd be shocked if "ties" meant being from Illinois.

[homestyle28]

I know I've been asking a million questions about Chicago legal market, but I'm wondering concretely how strong the ties have to be? A 3L last semester said that it's not really an issue if you are already from the midwest because it's obvious that Chicago > hometown/home state etc.

I'm from the region and have wanted to be in Chicago for years, although I don't really have family out here. I'd be shocked if "ties" meant being from Illinois.

I think that's right for Chicago, being from midwest + going to NU is sufficient, if asked you'll be able to express sincere enthusiasm for staying in Chicago, that's about all it takes.

[bjsesq]

Being a midwest bro is more than sufficient.

[Anonymous User]

Fuck Winston. That is all.

Word. It was one of the great days in TLS history when you got your current job brother.

Never forget!

Damn, sorry you had to experience that.

Oops: this is igo2northwestern

[Georgia Avenue]

As an alternative for those hoping for DC, but without the credentials, you might consider going to a national firm with strong DC presence, but less stringent office. It's probably not that common, but some firms are pretty free with inter-office transfers. I know a dude headed to DC to start work who did his SA in Chicago. Obviously, don't plan on this, but it's an option for some.

One other thing to remember about DC firms is that a lot of firms' DC offices are either a) really small and exist just so a firm can say they're in DC and/or b) entirely concentrated in a small handful of somewhat obscure practice areas. For instance, S&C has a DC office but it's like 20 lawyers, so it's highly unlikely they'd let people transfer into DC at will. On the second point, a lot of the national firms' DC offices don't have general commercial lit or general corporate practice - it's much more concentrated in things like securities lit, M&A antitrust clearance, corporate governance/compliance type work. So if you're interested in transferring offices into DC be very sure that your prospective firm's office has the practice area that you're looking for as well.

That being said, there are firms that have huge DC offices that do more general work - Kirkland, Skadden, and Latham come to mind.

[Micdiddy]

What is the protocol for mass-mailing firms coming to OCI? Right now I don't plan to mass-mail the firms I am bidding highly, but instead will mail them only if/after I do not get a screener. Correct?

[igo2northwestern]

What is the protocol for mass-mailing firms coming to OCI? Right now I don't plan to mass-mail the firms I am bidding highly, but instead will mail them only if/after I do not get a screener. Correct?

Yeah, that's right. When I mailed OCI firms before OCI, I got a "why aren't you bidding us for OCI" sort of response. But I did mail a few firms when I was visiting city X, to let them know that I was in the area, and I received interviews that way because they recognized the convenience aspect of it.

[Anonymous User]

So do people with 3.0-3.1 type grades get jobs at OCI? I'm signed up for a few minority hiring fairs and will be mass mailing heavily, so please no advice on that front.

[homestyle28]

So do people with 3.0-3.1 type grades get jobs at OCI? I'm signed up for a few minority hiring fairs and will be mass mailing heavily, so please no advice on that front.

People get jobs (and strike out) at all ends of the grade spectrum. Obviously you know you have a tough road ahead with your grades, but it can be done, and has been done before.

[Anonymous User]

Anon to avoid real life outing if that's alright.

Unless you have a compelling reason to stay away (spouse hates it, etc.), I'd strongly suggest bidding NYC. Obviously every class is different to an extent, but last year at least, it was just so much easier in NYC because everybody was bidding Chi like crazy and top NY firms ended up dipping down pretty low into GPAs.

And honestly, I get it if you love Chicago, but Chicago will still be there in 3-5 years. I'd personally rather be employed in NYC with the possibility of going back to Chicago later than be unemployed in Chicago. And outside of Kirkland, you really won't get the level of corporate work in Chicago that you'll get at most of the noteworthy NYC firms.

I do fully support Chicago as a city and completely get wanting to stay, but unless you have dynamite grades (and if so, great job), I wouldn't put 8 of 10 bids on Chicago considering how competitive it is and how small class sizes are. Sidley didn't hire as much last year because apparently they had more acceptances in C/O 2014 than they anticipated and most of the people they offered this past year had absolutely stellar resumes/GPAs. That kind of stuff is just impossible to predict and Chicago is small enough that it really matters.

[LRGhost]

tag

[Anonymous User]

3.67 targeting Chicago corporate... thoughts on this for a preliminary top 8?

1. Sidley
2. DLA
3. Kirkland
4. Mayer Brown
5. Jones Day
6. Latham
7. K&L Gates
8. Skadden

Is Mayer Brown maybe safe a little lower? Is Skadden safe that low? It seems like more people might shy away from them from what I've heard.

Other Chicago firms I think I should bid but not sure where they should go...
Schiff Harden
Katten
Baker McKenzie
Greenberg
Chapman(?)

ETA: Also not sure about McDermott, i see they are Chambers band 2 but they aren't coming up for chicago on NALP so no idea on class size

[Pokemon]

.

[Anonymous User]

Similar gpa to above poster (3.6x) but targeting Chicago lit-are we on the right track? All chicago office unless otherwise noted. Are Cleary and DPW out of reach? Are the NY firms too low? Is this list overly optimistic?

1. Sidley
2. Kirkland
3. Mayer Brown
4. Jenner
5. DLA
6. Skadden
7. Latham
8. Schiff
9. Jones Day
10. Winston
11. Cleary (NY)
12. Paul Weiss (NY)
13. DPW (NY)
14. Weil (NY)

[homestyle28]

Similar gpa to above poster (3.6x) but targeting Chicago lit-are we on the right track? All chicago office unless otherwise noted. Are Cleary and DPW out of reach? Are the NY firms too low? Is this list overly optimistic?

1. Sidley
2. Kirkland
3. Mayer Brown
4. Jenner
5. DLA
6. Skadden
7. Latham
8. Schiff
9. Jones Day
10. Winston
11. Cleary (NY)
12. Paul Weiss (NY)
13. DPW (NY)
14. Weil (NY)

What rationale were you using on Chicago here? This looks like you just listed firms in order of perceived prestige. At 3.6 targeting Chicago you need to bump up some of the safer firms like Katten and Winston. Do you all have GPA ranges yet?

[rayiner]

Similar gpa to above poster (3.6x) but targeting Chicago lit-are we on the right track? All chicago office unless otherwise noted. Are Cleary and DPW out of reach? Are the NY firms too low? Is this list overly optimistic?

1. Sidley
2. Kirkland
3. Mayer Brown
4. Jenner
5. DLA
6. Skadden
7. Latham
8. Schiff
9. Jones Day
10. Winston
11. Cleary (NY)
12. Paul Weiss (NY)
13. DPW (NY)
14. Weil (NY)

Paul Weiss is not worth a bid. They are extremely grade-grubby at NU. Simpson should be on there instead. DPW isn't out of the question with a great interview. Cleary/DPW/STB/Weil can all go lower. You need to make room for firms like Katten, etc, up higher.

[Anonymous User]

Stupid question, when is the bid deadline?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you both. Will move up more firms like Katten and drop NY lower.

Also thanks for the STB and PW info. the data i have makes it seem like the snobbishness should be reversed.

re: homestyles gpa question- 2012 data is floating around but CSO has not yet released last years data.

[Anonymous User]

Similar gpa to above poster (3.6x) but targeting Chicago lit-are we on the right track? All chicago office unless otherwise noted. Are Cleary and DPW out of reach? Are the NY firms too low? Is this list overly optimistic?

1. Sidley
2. Kirkland
3. Mayer Brown
4. Jenner
5. DLA
6. Skadden
7. Latham
8. Schiff
9. Jones Day
10. Winston
11. Cleary (NY)
12. Paul Weiss (NY)
13. DPW (NY)
14. Weil (NY)

Paul Weiss is not worth a bid. They are extremely grade-grubby at NU. Simpson should be on there instead. DPW isn't out of the question with a great interview. Cleary/DPW/STB/Weil can all go lower. You need to make room for firms like Katten, etc, up higher.

Paul Weiss in the last 2-3 years has been pretty generous, as well as DPW (which dipped to 3.4X for offer); maybe there was somewhat of a changeup? or our sample of classmates/friends might be different.

OP, also factor in how many interviews each firm is giving. Have they released that info yet?

[Anonymous User]

Working on my list, but will probably wait until data comes out next week: wondering worth bidding the monsters KE/Sidley/Mayer with 3.53 or is it worth just giving up those say top 3 slots to more reasonable targeted firms in Chicago? Obviously would love to work for any of those 3, but am concerned about wasting bids

[rayiner]

Paul Weiss in the last 2-3 years has been pretty generous, as well as DPW (which dipped to 3.4X for offer); maybe there was somewhat of a changeup? or our sample of classmates/friends might be different.

If you have more recent data, use that. I did OCI in 2010, which is longer ago than I thought...