V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
I think people who say it's easier to go from NYC to secondary markets than the reverse based on how infrequent the reverse is seriously overestimate how much people outside of NYC want to be there.
People from my secondary market have left for bigger and smaller cities (including NYC). But it's rare because when people are ready to leave my (low leverage, relatively sane) firm it's for BETTER hours, not even shittier ones.
People from my secondary market have left for bigger and smaller cities (including NYC). But it's rare because when people are ready to leave my (low leverage, relatively sane) firm it's for BETTER hours, not even shittier ones.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
People, I've been fairly lenient about anon use in this thread because it's kind of sensitive and a lot of people are talking about their own employment situations and so on. But 0Ls are still not allowed to post in this forum, even if they post anonymously, and continuing to do so will result in bans.
-
- Posts: 9807
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
This is the burdenChardPennington wrote:As long as you enter your time every day it's a really minimal burden
One of my cases it will take .5 just to draft one entry for the day
No joke
I hate that
I'm trying to be better but its the last thing I want to do at the end of a long day
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
The hard part is doing it at the end of the day. That sucks. You finally get to leave, and the last thing you want to do is spend 5 minutes putzing around with your time.ChardPennington wrote:Keeping time is probably the most bizarrely over-complained-about part of the job. As long as you enter your time every day it's a really minimal burden; it just sucks for the people who put it off until the end of the month and then try and piece it all together from a big pile of scribbled on post-its.Anonymous User wrote:I finally realize why the lawyer profession is a top 2 most depressing profession (Dentist being number 1)
I knew big law was bad but I didn't realize you are basically on everyone else's time even when you don't have anything else to do
You didn't even mention having to keep time in 6 minute incruments
Thanks for the insight
I thnk I'll start doing it first thing in the morning.
Also if you have 1-3 clients, it's pretty easy. Just divide your day based on what you worked on.
- FattyMcFatFat
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:16 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
unc0mm0n1 wrote:Thanks for this thread, a part of me still wondered if I made a mistake turning down my Biglaw offer. Reading accounts like yours just reinforces my belief that's it's not for me.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:30 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
What is your schedule like? What are some examples of "substantive experience?"Anonymous User wrote:Tradeoff seems real to me. I'm a first year in a secondary market in corporate (fwiw, vault ranks my firm as number 1 or 2 in my market every year). In talking to friends in NYC, I think I am getting more substantive experience.thesealocust wrote:Being an associate anywhere is not likely the top of the profession, but I'd argue the "more substantive experience at smaller firms" thing is more koolaidey than the alternative point of view. The reason is that nobody wants to hire a lawyer of Generic Talent Level X, they want to hire a lawyer with the right combination of (a) brand and (b) direct experience in the matter at hand.Pulsar wrote:Being an associate at a V5 is very likely not the "top of [the] profession." The people at the top are the partners. The associates who do not survive that long might have actually gotten better experience and more professional development at secondary market firms. Don't drink too much kool-aid.
Source: am an attorney
In my market, my firm is probably perceived as a high-billable firm. We often end up opposite NYC lawyers on our deals. I'm always surprised by (1) the insane hours the NYC lawyers work and (2) the number of lawyers New York offices staff to a deal. I think the second part absolutely plays a role in the amount of substantive experience a junior associate can get.
I'm not saying my schedule is wonderful, just that NYC seems to be a different level of hell.
-
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:03 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
IYO, what is the most credited Seamless order?Anonymous User wrote:Honestly, I eat one of 5 different meals because i don't have time to look through menus and restaurants so i just click reorder. 25-30% of the time the food I order goes uneaten or gets thrown away cold because I end up having fire drills or meetings during dinner time and the food just sits there and don't have time to eat it.911 crisis actor wrote:OP,
How sweet does it feel when you click submit on your Seamless order?
- BullShitWithBravado
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:29 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
How does your summer associate experience compare with working at the firm as a full-time associate? Do you feel like you were blind-sided by your workload when you started working full-time?
- rayiner
- Posts: 6145
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
LOL. Being an SA is the best job in the world. When you start, the polish is off and it becomes clear that the only relevant thing is money.BullShitWithBravado wrote:How does your summer associate experience compare with working at the firm as a full-time associate? Do you feel like you were blind-sided by your workload when you started working full-time?
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
I turned down SF and LA v20s to go to my home market, and I regretted it instantly (it's not that I dislike my home market, it's more that I know I can always go back home and go to one of the top firms, why not spend a few years in SF). I've had a terrible time trying to get into SF (and LA) now that I've spent a few years in my flyover market.Anonymous User wrote:I think people who say it's easier to go from NYC to secondary markets than the reverse based on how infrequent the reverse is seriously overestimate how much people outside of NYC want to be there.
People from my secondary market have left for bigger and smaller cities (including NYC). But it's rare because when people are ready to leave my (low leverage, relatively sane) firm it's for BETTER hours, not even shittier ones.
-
- Posts: 609
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:26 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Wed May 28, 2014 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Tragically, this rings true.JusticeJackson wrote:Finally (and this is the hardest thing to say without looking like a dick), the times I have advanced the most as an attorney are the times when I'm so busy that I need to do all nighters. You learn how to be truly efficient. So, even though it fucking sucks, one day when you pound out a 2 day assignment in 4 hours, you’ll think “man, that 3 months of hell really made me better at my craft.” Unfortunately, this does nothing to lessen the fact that you’re in hell.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Anonymous User wrote:I'm securities (though I think M/A is generally the same though maybe a tad bit more unpredictable).y3great wrote:Thanks for taking questions OP, and I hope things work out well for you in the end.
Could you give us a sense of what your ordinary work week looks like in terms of hours? When people say they pull all nighters, does that mean they literally stay in the office until the morning, and then continue working a full work-day? Also, are you able to take you work home with you in the evening instead of staying in the office? If yes: (1) is this looked down upon/can it get you in trouble; and (2) what time in the evening would you usually be comfortable going home.
Finally, if you are comfortable answering: M/A or securities?
Ordinary work week a lot of the times is like 9AM till about 9/10 PM 3 days a week, 1 day maybe 9AM till 7:30 PM, and 1 day 9AM till about 2 AM (you never know until about 7 PM that day though) and this is subject to extreme variability.
All nighters can depend on why you are pulling the all nighter. Sometimes you are literally up all night because you are waiting for a document from the other side and you have to review it and you don't know when they are sending it so you wait from like 8 PM and onwards and you don't know whether the document is coming at 9PM or 5 AM. Sometimes the all nighters is because you just have a shitton of work due by the morning so you're working all night.
Can you work at home? Depends. If you have a really good printer/scanner and don't mind the costs involved with printing huge number of pages and can scan documents then you're more likely able to. If you don't have this, you really can't because so often you have to mark up documents.
If you're on a deal with a senior and he is in the office for an all nighter, then the answer is you probably can't go home to work. You COULD but it might be looked down upon, I don't know - hard to say.
I feel comfortable leaving at 7 if I know nothing else is coming in or I know I don't have anything to do in the immediacy. That being said, there are countless times I have left at 7, gotten home at 7:30 and by 8:30 I've been headed back to the office.
I would just add as a Junior, your hours aren't really just your hours. You're expected to be available whenever (1) you have work to do individually, (2) whenever the senior is working on your matter and (3) whenever the partner is working on your matter. It's often times the case where you have nothing to do on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, but that is the time the Senior/Partner is working on the deal and therefore you have to make yourselves available for them at that time... and you really never know.
Have to say i think this is all a bit of an over dramatization. Former international M&A senior associate (2 years experience) - Middle market deal range of 50M --> 500M - average deal was in the 250-300m range -- job had similar demands but add travel to the picture. Kept SO of 3 years (living 1000mile away from her) and managed to stay in good shape. Had a life, had fun, enjoyed myself, made good money. Hours were 7am to 7pm most days - i tried to pull first one in last one out and managed that 90% of the time. Also played water polo and rowed competitively on the side (vestige of college and high school athletics).
I was still tasked with Doc review, doc drafting, negotiations, last minute trips to the client, fund raising negotiations, etc etc and my life was far from hell.
I think it's all gonna be what you make of the job. I'm looking to go M&A/Securities post LS, maybe Big law but who knows - may go back to my old IB firm. I think you need to be realistic about the expectations. If you're going into BigLaw and think it will be a cakewalk, that you can pull a 9-5 you'll burn out. If you go in knowing what the work expected of you will be and seek to enjoy that work, you'll manage and most likely succeed. if you goal is 160k/year for 5 years to pay your 200k debt then jump ship - well, yeah - expect to add 100 lbs, some grey hairs, etc. etc.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Okay but that's different. People from NYC struggle to get into Bay Area too. You're talking about starting where you want to end up.Anonymous User wrote:I turned down SF and LA v20s to go to my home market, and I regretted it instantly (it's not that I dislike my home market, it's more that I know I can always go back home and go to one of the top firms, why not spend a few years in SF). I've had a terrible time trying to get into SF (and LA) now that I've spent a few years in my flyover market.Anonymous User wrote:I think people who say it's easier to go from NYC to secondary markets than the reverse based on how infrequent the reverse is seriously overestimate how much people outside of NYC want to be there.
People from my secondary market have left for bigger and smaller cities (including NYC). But it's rare because when people are ready to leave my (low leverage, relatively sane) firm it's for BETTER hours, not even shittier ones.
- IAFG
- Posts: 6641
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
My firm specifically denoted 6 months in as a low point and man was that true for me. I felt like expectations of my competence outpaced reality. 2 months later I was in a totally different headspace.JusticeJackson wrote:OP: shit gets better. Hold on for 1 year and then consider sending out resumes. You can make it, man.
- Elston Gunn
- Posts: 3820
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:09 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
So, what, you're saying is that you worked a job that wasn't NYC V10 BigLaw and had better hours than NYC V10 BigLaw and you thought it was okay? Helpful.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I'm securities (though I think M/A is generally the same though maybe a tad bit more unpredictable).y3great wrote:Thanks for taking questions OP, and I hope things work out well for you in the end.
Could you give us a sense of what your ordinary work week looks like in terms of hours? When people say they pull all nighters, does that mean they literally stay in the office until the morning, and then continue working a full work-day? Also, are you able to take you work home with you in the evening instead of staying in the office? If yes: (1) is this looked down upon/can it get you in trouble; and (2) what time in the evening would you usually be comfortable going home.
Finally, if you are comfortable answering: M/A or securities?
Ordinary work week a lot of the times is like 9AM till about 9/10 PM 3 days a week, 1 day maybe 9AM till 7:30 PM, and 1 day 9AM till about 2 AM (you never know until about 7 PM that day though) and this is subject to extreme variability.
All nighters can depend on why you are pulling the all nighter. Sometimes you are literally up all night because you are waiting for a document from the other side and you have to review it and you don't know when they are sending it so you wait from like 8 PM and onwards and you don't know whether the document is coming at 9PM or 5 AM. Sometimes the all nighters is because you just have a shitton of work due by the morning so you're working all night.
Can you work at home? Depends. If you have a really good printer/scanner and don't mind the costs involved with printing huge number of pages and can scan documents then you're more likely able to. If you don't have this, you really can't because so often you have to mark up documents.
If you're on a deal with a senior and he is in the office for an all nighter, then the answer is you probably can't go home to work. You COULD but it might be looked down upon, I don't know - hard to say.
I feel comfortable leaving at 7 if I know nothing else is coming in or I know I don't have anything to do in the immediacy. That being said, there are countless times I have left at 7, gotten home at 7:30 and by 8:30 I've been headed back to the office.
I would just add as a Junior, your hours aren't really just your hours. You're expected to be available whenever (1) you have work to do individually, (2) whenever the senior is working on your matter and (3) whenever the partner is working on your matter. It's often times the case where you have nothing to do on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, but that is the time the Senior/Partner is working on the deal and therefore you have to make yourselves available for them at that time... and you really never know.
Have to say i think this is all a bit of an over dramatization. Former international M&A senior associate (2 years experience) - Middle market deal range of 50M --> 500M - average deal was in the 250-300m range -- job had similar demands but add travel to the picture. Kept SO of 3 years (living 1000mile away from her) and managed to stay in good shape. Had a life, had fun, enjoyed myself, made good money. Hours were 7am to 7pm most days - i tried to pull first one in last one out and managed that 90% of the time. Also played water polo and rowed competitively on the side (vestige of college and high school athletics).
I was still tasked with Doc review, doc drafting, negotiations, last minute trips to the client, fund raising negotiations, etc etc and my life was far from hell.
I think it's all gonna be what you make of the job. I'm looking to go M&A/Securities post LS, maybe Big law but who knows - may go back to my old IB firm. I think you need to be realistic about the expectations. If you're going into BigLaw and think it will be a cakewalk, that you can pull a 9-5 you'll burn out. If you go in knowing what the work expected of you will be and seek to enjoy that work, you'll manage and most likely succeed. if you goal is 160k/year for 5 years to pay your 200k debt then jump ship - well, yeah - expect to add 100 lbs, some grey hairs, etc. etc.
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
I'm saying I had a job which has many of the comparable demands to V10/V5/Top big law and survived - thought it was fine - didn't have unrealistic expectations. Didn't even come from a finance background and still managed to do well in the field, enjoy my job, and had an enjoyable life. Bosses were the same - possibly more dick-ish than what one might see in Biglaw. Still working for entitled clients with unreasonable expectations; often times with just as high risk/importance assignments which if done incorrectly can result in litigation or multi-million dollar loss/overpayment/etc.Elston Gunn wrote:So, what, you're saying is that you worked a job that wasn't NYC V10 BigLaw and had better hours than NYC V10 BigLaw and you thought it was okay? Helpful.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I'm securities (though I think M/A is generally the same though maybe a tad bit more unpredictable).y3great wrote:Thanks for taking questions OP, and I hope things work out well for you in the end.
Could you give us a sense of what your ordinary work week looks like in terms of hours? When people say they pull all nighters, does that mean they literally stay in the office until the morning, and then continue working a full work-day? Also, are you able to take you work home with you in the evening instead of staying in the office? If yes: (1) is this looked down upon/can it get you in trouble; and (2) what time in the evening would you usually be comfortable going home.
Finally, if you are comfortable answering: M/A or securities?
Ordinary work week a lot of the times is like 9AM till about 9/10 PM 3 days a week, 1 day maybe 9AM till 7:30 PM, and 1 day 9AM till about 2 AM (you never know until about 7 PM that day though) and this is subject to extreme variability.
All nighters can depend on why you are pulling the all nighter. Sometimes you are literally up all night because you are waiting for a document from the other side and you have to review it and you don't know when they are sending it so you wait from like 8 PM and onwards and you don't know whether the document is coming at 9PM or 5 AM. Sometimes the all nighters is because you just have a shitton of work due by the morning so you're working all night.
Can you work at home? Depends. If you have a really good printer/scanner and don't mind the costs involved with printing huge number of pages and can scan documents then you're more likely able to. If you don't have this, you really can't because so often you have to mark up documents.
If you're on a deal with a senior and he is in the office for an all nighter, then the answer is you probably can't go home to work. You COULD but it might be looked down upon, I don't know - hard to say.
I feel comfortable leaving at 7 if I know nothing else is coming in or I know I don't have anything to do in the immediacy. That being said, there are countless times I have left at 7, gotten home at 7:30 and by 8:30 I've been headed back to the office.
I would just add as a Junior, your hours aren't really just your hours. You're expected to be available whenever (1) you have work to do individually, (2) whenever the senior is working on your matter and (3) whenever the partner is working on your matter. It's often times the case where you have nothing to do on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, but that is the time the Senior/Partner is working on the deal and therefore you have to make yourselves available for them at that time... and you really never know.
Have to say i think this is all a bit of an over dramatization. Former international M&A senior associate (2 years experience) - Middle market deal range of 50M --> 500M - average deal was in the 250-300m range -- job had similar demands but add travel to the picture. Kept SO of 3 years (living 1000mile away from her) and managed to stay in good shape. Had a life, had fun, enjoyed myself, made good money. Hours were 7am to 7pm most days - i tried to pull first one in last one out and managed that 90% of the time. Also played water polo and rowed competitively on the side (vestige of college and high school athletics).
I was still tasked with Doc review, doc drafting, negotiations, last minute trips to the client, fund raising negotiations, etc etc and my life was far from hell.
I think it's all gonna be what you make of the job. I'm looking to go M&A/Securities post LS, maybe Big law but who knows - may go back to my old IB firm. I think you need to be realistic about the expectations. If you're going into BigLaw and think it will be a cakewalk, that you can pull a 9-5 you'll burn out. If you go in knowing what the work expected of you will be and seek to enjoy that work, you'll manage and most likely succeed. if you goal is 160k/year for 5 years to pay your 200k debt then jump ship - well, yeah - expect to add 100 lbs, some grey hairs, etc. etc.
Just because I wasn't in the office at 2AM didn't mean I wasn't on call all the time. Any time I went to vist my SO i was on call. Hell when I was on travel for one client I was expected to do things for other clients on their clock - which is hard to do for an east coast client when you're in China or Australia. If i'd be waiting on a term sheet or LOI and it didn't come in by midnight; go home and set an alarm for a few hours and check it again. It's not as fatalistic as the OP is making it sound. many people hate this stuff b/c they think it's gonna be A and it turns out being Y.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
My will has been broken recently by getting sucked into a project that made it all feel like starting over again.IAFG wrote:My firm specifically denoted 6 months in as a low point and man was that true for me. I felt like expectations of my competence outpaced reality. 2 months later I was in a totally different headspace.JusticeJackson wrote:OP: shit gets better. Hold on for 1 year and then consider sending out resumes. You can make it, man.
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon May 05, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
This isn't helpful. You haven't worked in BL. How can you really say your job had similar demands? Why should anyone trust your anonymous wisdom?Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I'm securities (though I think M/A is generally the same though maybe a tad bit more unpredictable).y3great wrote:Thanks for taking questions OP, and I hope things work out well for you in the end.
Could you give us a sense of what your ordinary work week looks like in terms of hours? When people say they pull all nighters, does that mean they literally stay in the office until the morning, and then continue working a full work-day? Also, are you able to take you work home with you in the evening instead of staying in the office? If yes: (1) is this looked down upon/can it get you in trouble; and (2) what time in the evening would you usually be comfortable going home.
Finally, if you are comfortable answering: M/A or securities?
Ordinary work week a lot of the times is like 9AM till about 9/10 PM 3 days a week, 1 day maybe 9AM till 7:30 PM, and 1 day 9AM till about 2 AM (you never know until about 7 PM that day though) and this is subject to extreme variability.
All nighters can depend on why you are pulling the all nighter. Sometimes you are literally up all night because you are waiting for a document from the other side and you have to review it and you don't know when they are sending it so you wait from like 8 PM and onwards and you don't know whether the document is coming at 9PM or 5 AM. Sometimes the all nighters is because you just have a shitton of work due by the morning so you're working all night.
Can you work at home? Depends. If you have a really good printer/scanner and don't mind the costs involved with printing huge number of pages and can scan documents then you're more likely able to. If you don't have this, you really can't because so often you have to mark up documents.
If you're on a deal with a senior and he is in the office for an all nighter, then the answer is you probably can't go home to work. You COULD but it might be looked down upon, I don't know - hard to say.
I feel comfortable leaving at 7 if I know nothing else is coming in or I know I don't have anything to do in the immediacy. That being said, there are countless times I have left at 7, gotten home at 7:30 and by 8:30 I've been headed back to the office.
I would just add as a Junior, your hours aren't really just your hours. You're expected to be available whenever (1) you have work to do individually, (2) whenever the senior is working on your matter and (3) whenever the partner is working on your matter. It's often times the case where you have nothing to do on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, but that is the time the Senior/Partner is working on the deal and therefore you have to make yourselves available for them at that time... and you really never know.
Have to say i think this is all a bit of an over dramatization. Former international M&A senior associate (2 years experience) - Middle market deal range of 50M --> 500M - average deal was in the 250-300m range -- job had similar demands but add travel to the picture. Kept SO of 3 years (living 1000mile away from her) and managed to stay in good shape. Had a life, had fun, enjoyed myself, made good money. Hours were 7am to 7pm most days - i tried to pull first one in last one out and managed that 90% of the time. Also played water polo and rowed competitively on the side (vestige of college and high school athletics).
I was still tasked with Doc review, doc drafting, negotiations, last minute trips to the client, fund raising negotiations, etc etc and my life was far from hell.
I think it's all gonna be what you make of the job. I'm looking to go M&A/Securities post LS, maybe Big law but who knows - may go back to my old IB firm. I think you need to be realistic about the expectations. If you're going into BigLaw and think it will be a cakewalk, that you can pull a 9-5 you'll burn out. If you go in knowing what the work expected of you will be and seek to enjoy that work, you'll manage and most likely succeed. if you goal is 160k/year for 5 years to pay your 200k debt then jump ship - well, yeah - expect to add 100 lbs, some grey hairs, etc. etc.
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:43 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Just curious, can anyone speak to typical TX transactional biglaw hours requirements? I have heard that it isn't quite as much of a grind in Texas.
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
None of the OP's posts say enough to comment on the quality of their underlying relationship. I don't think it's objectively blameworthy to not want to date someone who works all the time.jbagelboy wrote:First, no offense, but wow your ex sounds like an asshole, from your characterization of events. How could this come as a surprise to him or her? From the length of the relationship, he/she was with you when you decided to apply to law school, took the LSAT, pushed through 1L finals (which must have been hell on earth to make V5, unless you were at Yale), and presumably made the choice to work in the corporate department of a huge law firm together after OCI. Unless you sucked at presenting accurate information or faked he/her out, the person you're in a relationship with should have fucking known it would be bad, and bailing after a few months cause you work some late nights/wkends and aren't all that emotionally available is frankly a shitty move. Five years is a long time, one would think you two would have discussed it and, if the job was really creating that much tension, made a decision together to transition into something else or stick through it for the sake of the relationship.
The bolded makes no sense. People always talk about how random law school grades are, how certain people don't do any work yet still end up at the top of the class, and then act like anyone who did well or ended up in a top firm must have performed herculean feats of studying. I know the guy who's probably #1 in my class at CCN, absolutely tiptop grades, and this person seems to do very little work relative to our peers. In other words, it's entirely possible to have done well enough at law school to get v5 and still be totally unprepared for the sweatshop, even if you "know" it's coming.
Not to threadjack, but I've love to hear more from the regional biglaw folks who have commented (perhaps here? http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p7673188), especially w/r/t getting substantive work early on and opportunities to try out practice areas and then to specialize. Sorry to off-topic (though this thread is a bit to the birds already), just strongly considering going that route.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 432496
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
I'm a second year transactional lawyer in TX biglaw. There are times when aspects of what the OP said is true, but, in general, I haven't found Texas biglaw to be nearly as unbearable as my counterparts in NY. It's hard to articulate the precise differences, but, at least at my firm, everyone just wants to get home to their dogs/spouses/kids as quickly as possible, so there is no expectation that you stick around just because the senior associate or partner is still at work. You check in with them to make sure there's nothing else you can do, and then you leave. If something comes up, you work from home. I mostly do M&A, so the scanner/printer access thing is less important, but the cap markets people I know often use one of those iPad PDF editor apps to get by when they're not at the office.Canof09 wrote:Just curious, can anyone speak to typical TX transactional biglaw hours requirements? I have heard that it isn't quite as much of a grind in Texas.
I've gotten very substantive work since I started, mostly on large deals but also on a handful of mid-size deals. While it's hard to judge, I think I've gotten fantastic experience over the last year and a half, even (or perhaps especially) compared to my counterparts in our NYC office.
That being said, 6 months in was definitely the low point of my (admittedly short) career thus far. I'm orders of magnitude happier with my job now than I was then.
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Another major thing to keep in mind is economic cycle and practice groups could easily mean more than firm or geography.
If capital markets are hot and M&A is dead, you could see 2nd year NYC M&A associates talking about their 9-to-5 then models-and-bottles lifestyle while the flaming wreckage of capital markets associates pray for an early death nationwide.
If capital markets are hot and M&A is dead, you could see 2nd year NYC M&A associates talking about their 9-to-5 then models-and-bottles lifestyle while the flaming wreckage of capital markets associates pray for an early death nationwide.
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:43 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
This is helpful, thanks!Anonymous User wrote:I'm a second year transactional lawyer in TX biglaw. There are times when aspects of what the OP said is true, but, in general, I haven't found Texas biglaw to be nearly as unbearable as my counterparts in NY. It's hard to articulate the precise differences, but, at least at my firm, everyone just wants to get home to their dogs/spouses/kids as quickly as possible, so there is no expectation that you stick around just because the senior associate or partner is still at work. You check in with them to make sure there's nothing else you can do, and then you leave. If something comes up, you work from home. I mostly do M&A, so the scanner/printer access thing is less important, but the cap markets people I know often use one of those iPad PDF editor apps to get by when they're not at the office.Canof09 wrote:Just curious, can anyone speak to typical TX transactional biglaw hours requirements? I have heard that it isn't quite as much of a grind in Texas.
I've gotten very substantive work since I started, mostly on large deals but also on a handful of mid-size deals. While it's hard to judge, I think I've gotten fantastic experience over the last year and a half, even (or perhaps especially) compared to my counterparts in our NYC office.
That being said, 6 months in was definitely the low point of my (admittedly short) career thus far. I'm orders of magnitude happier with my job now than I was then.
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:43 am
Re: V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a second year transactional lawyer in TX biglaw. There are times when aspects of what the OP said is true, but, in general, I haven't found Texas biglaw to be nearly as unbearable as my counterparts in NY. It's hard to articulate the precise differences, but, at least at my firm, everyone just wants to get home to their dogs/spouses/kids as quickly as possible, so there is no expectation that you stick around just because the senior associate or partner is still at work. You check in with them to make sure there's nothing else you can do, and then you leave. If something comes up, you work from home. I mostly do M&A, so the scanner/printer access thing is less important, but the cap markets people I know often use one of those iPad PDF editor apps to get by when they're not at the office.Canof09 wrote:Just curious, can anyone speak to typical TX transactional biglaw hours requirements? I have heard that it isn't quite as much of a grind in Texas.
I've gotten very substantive work since I started, mostly on large deals but also on a handful of mid-size deals. While it's hard to judge, I think I've gotten fantastic experience over the last year and a half, even (or perhaps especially) compared to my counterparts in our NYC office.
That being said, 6 months in was definitely the low point of my (admittedly short) career thus far. I'm orders of magnitude happier with my job now than I was then.
What is your sense of exit options for transactional TX biglaw associates who have put in 4+ years? Are decent in-house positions something that are available to most people ordo most people end up going another route?
Thanks again!
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login