Firms to Avoid Forum

[Anonymous User]

Just because you were lucky enough to get an offer doesn't mean that everyone they no offered was a douchebag

Yeah but we have met the people who got no offered.

I can honestly say no one in my LS class who got no offered were dickbags, but I also know the people who got no offered at a peer firm in my market had it coming.

Um... you haven't met me

[IAFG]

Just because you were lucky enough to get an offer doesn't mean that everyone they no offered was a douchebag

Yeah but we have met the people who got no offered.

I can honestly say no one in my LS class who got no offered were dickbags, but I also know the people who got no offered at a peer firm in my market had it coming.

Um... you haven't met me

If you summered with the guy ITT who was at PH, he has.

[patogordo]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

[IAFG]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

Or maybe it's just actually true that the no offers were justified. I don't know, I've never even interviewed there.

[Anonymous User]

Just because you were lucky enough to get an offer doesn't mean that everyone they no offered was a douchebag

Yeah but we have met the people who got no offered.

I can honestly say no one in my LS class who got no offered were dickbags, but I also know the people who got no offered at a peer firm in my market had it coming.

Um... you haven't met me

If you summered with the guy ITT who was at PH, he has.

there's a guy in this thread who was at PH and he went and met all of the summers at the entire firm and assessed that they were all dicks?

[IAFG]

No if you literally summered with him, in his office, which is what I said above. But you're not leaving much room for doubt that you're a dick.

[Anonymous User]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

Or maybe it's just actually true that the no offers were justified. I don't know, I've never even interviewed there.

Justified is a strong word. I don't think they deserved it but they didn't have good personalities. Plenty of people in law school are like that. And these people would have got offers at lost other big law firms.

It's still a shitty thing to do to people because of the consequences. The only reason I brought it up was to point out it's not one time financial issue. It's a hiring model that is not going away.

I'd recommend taking a 100% firm any day.

[patogordo]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

Or maybe it's just actually true that the no offers were justified. I don't know, I've never even interviewed there.

i mean they might be, but that's not really my point. fwiw i did interview there and they seemed fine. just an observation. i remember some anons vociferously defending PH about other shit, like the fake memo thing a couple years ago. just seems like they'd be better off letting random speculation like this go.

[Anonymous User]

No if you literally summered with him, in his office, which is what I said above. But you're not leaving much room for doubt that you're a dick.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just a little defensive when someone makes a blanket statement about everyone who got no offered being a dick or a douchebag. Maybe that's how it was in his office, but he doesn't know me or the other people in my office who got no offered.

[Anonymous User]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

Or maybe it's just actually true that the no offers were justified. I don't know, I've never even interviewed there.

i mean they might be, but that's not really my point. fwiw i did interview there and they seemed fine. just an observation. i remember some anons vociferously defending PH about other shit, like the fake memo thing a couple years ago. just seems like they'd be better off letting random speculation like this go.

Haha that fake memo is awful. It is really shitty. I didn't have to do it my year but it sounds awful.

[IAFG]

i don't have a doge in this race but i've noticed that PH poasters are always doth protesting too much on tls

Or maybe it's just actually true that the no offers were justified. I don't know, I've never even interviewed there.

Justified is a strong word. I don't think they deserved it but they didn't have good personalities. Plenty of people in law school are like that. And these people would have got offers at lost other big law firms.

It's still a shitty thing to do to people because of the consequences. The only reason I brought it up was to point out it's not one time financial issue. It's a hiring model that is not going away.

I'd recommend taking a 100% firm any day.

IF it's actually true that a certain firm's no offers are for personality, it might even be a good idea to go to a firm that no offers. But that better actually be true, rather than for being bad at estimating need and fucking people over where convenient.

I am glad I had the choice of a 100% firm because I actually am sort of a dick and also because I showed up pregnant as fuck.

[09042014]

Calling people who got no offered dicks is itself a dick move. Sounds like post victim blaming.

[mr.hands]

I actually think that this thread has a lot of potential. If people just post the firm and their reasoning, this could be productive and interesting....

let's get back on track?

[IAFG]

I actually think that this thread has a lot of potential. If people just post the firm and their reasoning, this could be productive and interesting....

let's get back on track?

I mean there are a small number of firms still being dicks. And the recession-era stuff is well-chronicled already. We're probably done here.

[09042014]

I actually think that this thread has a lot of potential. If people just post the firm and their reasoning, this could be productive and interesting....

let's get back on track?

I mean there are a small number of firms still being dicks. And the recession-era stuff is well-chronicled already. We're probably done here.

The focus should be on firms who no offer regularly. And on firms that are in trouble. Dickstein, Patton Boggs., etc.

[suzige]

tagging. The more I know going into OCI the better...maybe

[IAFG]

I actually think that this thread has a lot of potential. If people just post the firm and their reasoning, this could be productive and interesting....

let's get back on track?

I mean there are a small number of firms still being dicks. And the recession-era stuff is well-chronicled already. We're probably done here.

The focus should be on firms who no offer regularly. And on firms that are in trouble. Dickstein, Patton Boggs., etc.

NALP tells you the first half but tracking firms with issues is smart.

[Old Gregg]

Just read ATL. No stupid thread needed. We are all getting the Pattin Boggs and Dickstein stuff from the same place.

[Anonymous User]

Just read ATL. No stupid thread needed. We are all getting the Pattin Boggs and Dickstein stuff from the same place.

Agree 100%. This thread seems pointless. From someone who went through the process, this is how you should handle your search:

1) Read Above the Law to eliminate firms (i.e., if the firm is revoking offers or laying off lots of associates recently, probably consider bidding elsewhere).
2) Once you reach the callback/offer stage, go to https://www.nalpdirectory.com/ then enter the name of the firm you are considering. Click search. Find the office you are considering and click it. Click the "Recruitment and Hiring" tab and then check out the summer associate figures.
3) Strongly consider picking the firm with the highest offer rate, all other things being equal. Reading rumors and, to a lesser extent, talking with recruitment folks or associates, is pretty useless; just look at the actual data.
4) Pick a firm; turn down other outstanding offers and withdraw from consideration any firm you are still waiting on post-callback.
5) Enjoy a relaxing 3L year.

[Dredd_2017]

Just read ATL. No stupid thread needed. We are all getting the Pattin Boggs and Dickstein stuff from the same place.

Agree 100%. This thread seems pointless. From someone who went through the process, this is how you should handle your search:

1) Read Above the Law to eliminate firms (i.e., if the firm is revoking offers or laying off lots of associates recently, probably consider bidding elsewhere).
2) Once you reach the callback/offer stage, go to https://www.nalpdirectory.com/ then enter the name of the firm you are considering. Click search. Find the office you are considering and click it. Click the "Recruitment and Hiring" tab and then check out the summer associate figures.
3) Strongly consider picking the firm with the highest offer rate, all other things being equal. Reading rumors and, to a lesser extent, talking with recruitment folks or associates, is pretty useless; just look at the actual data.
4) Pick a firm; turn down other outstanding offers and withdraw from consideration any firm you are still waiting on post-callback.
5) Enjoy a relaxing 3L year.

I largely agree, I certainly found out about almost all of this from ATL, but not Paul Hastings. Furthermore following anon's advice if you look for 2013 this is the data you get for firm-wide summer hiring - 55/57 offered firm wide.

If I saw at that and was going into OCI I'd think it was a safe bet, but using teh google + tls now I've found questions about its summer hiring from 2009 on ATL + speculation / threads here discussing 2012 no-offers and summer numbers. A firm that used a particular hiring model for so long probably hasn't changed its spots, and I have to wonder if they're actually cold-offering some of these folks just to inflate their numbers.

Either way, it gets added to the list of firms where if I'm fortunate enough to have an alternate, I'll choose that. Without this thread that may not have happened.

Edit: Hilarious that less than an hour after my 7:40AM EST poast about Kasowitz Benson anon flies in to the rescue, that is a dedicated recruiting department.

[20141023]

.

[suzige]

Tagging.

And just FYI, I found this thread to be useful because although I check ATL semi-regularly, it is easy to miss one article about a firm doing shit to kids. Also, for a lot of us who are new to the law-school scene, we don't know the history / current status of many of these firms; although a simple Google search might resolve the issue, it is nice to have all of the information here in one place. After all, it's not like there's a rule that only one website is allowed to carry useful information on the Internet.

Agreed.

[North]

Agreed.

[NYSprague]

Tagging.

And just FYI, I found this thread to be useful because although I check ATL semi-regularly, it is easy to miss one article about a firm doing shit to kids. Also, for a lot of us who are new to the law-school scene, we don't know the history / current status of many of these firms; although a simple Google search might resolve the issue, it is nice to have all of the information here in one place. After all, it's not like there's a rule that only one website is allowed to carry useful information on the Internet.

Agreed.

Doesn't ATL have a meta tag for law firm layoffs that goes back at least to the crash?

[soj]

Paul Hastings doesn't purposely over hire and flunk out a portion. But they also aren't going to give douchebags offers just to hit 100%. If you are nice and make an effort you'll get an offer. But dicks and dbags won't.

It sucks for the summers but when your mid levels are decent people you'll love the policy.

even if a couple bad apples somehow slip through, the firm will sniff them out pretty quick, like that time it fired an associate who had just returned from a miscarriage and, after her firing, turned out to be a whistle-blowing shrew.