"I'd like to work in biglaw for a while..." Forum

[whereskyle]

It's the amount of work, number of hours, and deadlines which make the job so bad in general. It's the people, the bosses, the assholes, who make it absolutely toxic for some people. If you happen to work for an asshole, you are just fucked.

One of the more sadistic aspects of the job is the billable hours requirement. It's not the amount, though 2000 is too high, it's that it doesn't take into account downtime. Firm only has 50 hours of work for you in March? Better hope you have a great April. It's shitty, and makes you worry when you aren't busy. So it sucks to be busy, and sucks to be slow.

Retroactive pay reduction? Simply fired? No raise? What are the consequences of missing the 2000 hour mark?

[rad lulz]

d

[rad lulz]

d

[IAFG]

Real question: How many of the biglaw posters here worked in white collar service industries before coming to law school?

I can see the transition to large billing requirements, shitty midlevel bosses, no social life, ect. as a particularly raw deal from a k-jd (or "I spent my gap year teaching english 8 hours a week in Barcelona and studying for the LSAT" de facto k-jd's) who then spent 3L fucking off and had no idea what the real FT grind can be like. For those of us with prior professional experience, hard to believe it's the same degree of shock. (I know this doesn't mean anything since these events are mostly just trying to sell the firms to us, but when attorneys ask me what I did before law school at firm receptions and I tell them the consulting firm I worked at, they say, "oh so you know what it's like...*grimace*)". I'm sure life as a junior biglaw attorney is worse, but is it that much worse...

Maybe I'll have more reflections after working in a biglaw office this summer and speaking with the other associates, but at my old consulting firm I faced a lot of the same shit (60 hour billing weeks, red-eye travel to client offices over thanksgiving weekend, constant heckling from a shit mid-level project supervisor who was always bitter he couldn't be home with his newborn kid and felt like keeping me till 8:30PM would assuage his own bullshit guilt) and I'm wondering if someone who had experienced vault consulting or bulge bracket finance before law school could comment on the transition?

Coming from Northwestern, I can assure you that your WE won't save you.

[nygrrrl]

I would say I did one really dumb thing: never asking an associate at a large law firm what they actually did day-to-day in a typical month. Like what it actually meant to "file a motion" or "review documents." The only thing I really understood going in (frankly, even after my summer) was what it's like to do and report on legal research.

Credited.
I am lucky in that I got pulled into a practice group that threw me enough "real" work during my SA to give me an idea of what I am facing. (As in, some real drudge work, stay-late-on-Friday-work, the stuff I'll be doing as a 1st year work - not the fun, fluffy stuff you usually do as a SA.)

Sorry to single you out nygrrrl, but I find this kind of post the most annoying. There's something infuriating about analogizing the SA experience to the experience of an actual junior associate. The fact that you had to stay late on Fridays and had to perform drudge work just doesn't give you a sense for the mental grind month in and month out. Horrible hours and boring work are quite tolerable if you only have to endure them for 10 weeks of the year and then get to go on vacation for the other 42 weeks. (And, yes, law school is a vacation compared to big law--except for the two weeks a semester when you have to study for and take your finals.)

I just hate the summer associate anecdotes. I'd rather read a post by some 0L speculating about big law based on no information.

I started to type this out then gave up.

NYG, you've put in long hours for a long time and are better prepared than most to deal with this job, but the reasons cited in this post are just beyond bad.

Eh. I think several of you missed the last line of my post, which was "Also, what Nony said. (Meaning, wtf do I know, I don't start work until fall.)"

(Gosh it's fun to watch you all get riled up, though.)

[sublime]

..

[rpupkin]

Eh. I think several of you missed the last line of my post, which was "Also, what Nony said. (Meaning, wtf do I know, I don't start work until fall.)"

Like I said, I'm sorry to single you out. Your "my SA experience gave me a real sense of what being an associate is like" post was less obnoxious than most in the genre. But the post was still annoying, even with your disclaimer.

[AAJD2B]

Real question: How many of the biglaw posters here worked in white collar service industries before coming to law school?

I can see the transition to large billing requirements, shitty midlevel bosses, no social life, ect. as a particularly raw deal from a k-jd (or "I spent my gap year teaching english 8 hours a week in Barcelona and studying for the LSAT" de facto k-jd's) who then spent 3L fucking off and had no idea what the real FT grind can be like. For those of us with prior professional experience, hard to believe it's the same degree of shock. (I know this doesn't mean anything since these events are mostly just trying to sell the firms to us, but when attorneys ask me what I did before law school at firm receptions and I tell them the consulting firm I worked at, they say, "oh so you know what it's like...*grimace*)". I'm sure life as a junior biglaw attorney is worse, but is it that much worse...

Maybe I'll have more reflections after working in a biglaw office this summer and speaking with the other associates, but at my old consulting firm I faced a lot of the same shit (60 hour billing weeks, red-eye travel to client offices over thanksgiving weekend, constant heckling from a shit mid-level project supervisor who was always bitter he couldn't be home with his newborn kid and felt like keeping me till 8:30PM would assuage his own bullshit guilt) and I'm wondering if someone who had experienced vault consulting or bulge bracket finance before law school could comment on the transition?

Coming from Northwestern, I can assure you that your WE won't save you.

Even if some of your previous work experience entailed working in biglaw with similar hours to that of the associates and in NYC of all places?

I figure if one can survive that and still want the profession, they are in great shape to know what to expect and how best to survive.

[nygrrrl]

Eh. I think several of you missed the last line of my post, which was "Also, what Nony said. (Meaning, wtf do I know, I don't start work until fall.)"

Like I said, I'm sorry to single you out. Your "my SA experience gave me a real sense of what being an associate is like" post was less obnoxious than most in the genre. But the post was still annoying, even with your disclaimer.

Dude, I'm totally trolling you. Who can possibly know what a job is really like until they're in the thick of it? That's what makes threads like this one so funny - as Nony and IAFG have pointed out.

[rpupkin]

Coming from Northwestern, I can assure you that your WE won't save you.

Even if some of your previous work experience entailed working in biglaw with similar hours to that of the associates and in NYC of all places?

I figure if one can survive that and still want the profession, they are in great shape to know what to expect and how best to survive.

Oh good. It's you.

Can we just stipulate that you're special and that all of our generalizations don't apply to you?

[IAFG]

I am trying to think if anyone I know who was a biglaw paralegal was crazy enough to want to go back after law school.

[09042014]

It's the amount of work, number of hours, and deadlines which make the job so bad in general. It's the people, the bosses, the assholes, who make it absolutely toxic for some people. If you happen to work for an asshole, you are just fucked.

One of the more sadistic aspects of the job is the billable hours requirement. It's not the amount, though 2000 is too high, it's that it doesn't take into account downtime. Firm only has 50 hours of work for you in March? Better hope you have a great April. It's shitty, and makes you worry when you aren't busy. So it sucks to be busy, and sucks to be slow.

Retroactive pay reduction? Simply fired? No raise? What are the consequences of missing the 2000 hour mark?

No bonus, which is only 10k (presumably). So not a huge deal.

Probably no other consequences since the hours just aren't here. But if it keeps happening --> fired

[AAJD2B]

Coming from Northwestern, I can assure you that your WE won't save you.

Even if some of your previous work experience entailed working in biglaw with similar hours to that of the associates and in NYC of all places?

I figure if one can survive that and still want the profession, they are in great shape to know what to expect and how best to survive.

Oh good. It's you.

Can we just stipulate that you're special and that all of our generalizations don't apply to you?

Hey rpupkin!! Good to see you again.

[worldtraveler]

I am trying to think if anyone I know who was a biglaw paralegal was crazy enough to want to go back after law school.

I know one who was a Skadden paralegal and went back. He's also one of the weirdest and most fucked up people I've ever met.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Can anyone speak to big law life as a tax associate?

[09042014]

It's the amount of work, number of hours, and deadlines which make the job so bad in general. It's the people, the bosses, the assholes, who make it absolutely toxic for some people. If you happen to work for an asshole, you are just fucked.

One of the more sadistic aspects of the job is the billable hours requirement. It's not the amount, though 2000 is too high, it's that it doesn't take into account downtime. Firm only has 50 hours of work for you in March? Better hope you have a great April. It's shitty, and makes you worry when you aren't busy. So it sucks to be busy, and sucks to be slow.

I understand why it sucks sometimes, that 200k/yr isn't stupid rich and that you don't mesh with some of the people. I'm assuming if 100k 40 hrs were there in house, you'd take it. However, maybe you just don't like the work in general?

I kind of like my job so far, but I've been billing like 100 hours a month because we are slow. I work with really good people, but I see colleagues get destroyed by psycho bosses. And it's not like I picked correctly, it was total luck.

The type of work is actually pretty good. It's certainly better than what I did pre law school.

There is no type of work that you would enjoy if you were expected to perform like biglawyers are. Getting blow jobs would suck if you had to cum all night to finish by Thursday morning but your partner didn't swollow it til next wednesday.

Shit dood 100/mo is SLOW anything good in the pipe?

March is good, probably 190 (because I joined a doc rev crew for a case not in my departmnet), but Jan and Feb were like 100 each. The case my team has is going to settle. I'm working on tiny scraps, but nothing big coming in.

But I'll get put on the next case we get. So it won't be like this forever.

[paglababa]

Can anyone speak to big law life as a tax associate?

+1

Are there any groups in big law that have a better QoL than others?

[patogordo]

Can anyone speak to big law life as a tax associate?

taxing

[nygrrrl]

I am trying to think if anyone I know who was a biglaw paralegal was crazy enough to want to go back after law school.

I know one who was a Skadden paralegal and went back. He's also one of the weirdest and most fucked up people I've ever met.

I know zero who went back, here. I do know 2 who were absolutely determined never to go back.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I like big law. That said:

1) The number of people targeting it is way more than the number of people who would find it acceptable in the long run;

2) Its hard if you're not a married loser and need to maintain a social life or go and try to get laid;

3) The people with no EQ make this industry way worse than it needs to be;

4) The bargain was better for more people when in-house exits existed.

I'm hoping that I can enjoy it somewhat for a few years for reason 2. Also, I would like to make it to 4 if the economy picks up (class of 2015 here).

[AAJD2B]

I am trying to think if anyone I know who was a biglaw paralegal was crazy enough to want to go back after law school.

There were a few at my old firm. I work in-house now but I truly miss my biglaw days and the year I billed 2700 hours. I miss Seamless deliveries, free cabs after 9pm, gyming at Equinox, sneaking power naps on partner's couches, setting up conference rooms, attending CLEs and quarterly meetings and getting pissed drunk after a deal closing only to have to head back to the office at midnight to prepare for a 7am closing call where no documents have been finalized until 6am for execution in time for the call. Man, those were the days!

[IAFG]

lol @ all these law students in the bargaining stage of grief.

[Lincoln]

TBF sometimes I fucking love my job. When it's 11 p.m. and I'm cranking out something that feels like it's gonna win the $1bn case it feels rad. Then I quickly sober up the next morning when the fascist shits all over it and makes me feel like I'm mentally handicapped.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

lol @ all these law students in the bargaining stage of grief.

What would you do differently IAFG? It seems like for high-level legal work on the civil side it is hard not to start with big law unless you 1) want to be a plaintiffs attorney 2) want to work for the govt 3) want to do PI 4) ??.

Am I wrong?

[IAFG]

lol @ all these law students in the bargaining stage of grief.

What would you do differently IAFG? It seems like for high-level legal work on the civil side it is hard not to start with big law unless you 1) want to be a plaintiffs attorney 2) want to work for the govt 3) want to do PI 4) ??.

Am I wrong?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of biglaw. But lol @ "generally liking the work." lol @ staying "several" years. lol @ "not bonus gunning." lol @ "establishing clear boundaries."