2013 SA Offer Thread Forum

[Lasers]

no offer. v30. satellite office.

fuck, did they give you any specific reason for it?

[NYstate]

Medium-smallish law firm (35 attorneys) in a small market (150k city pop), but largest firm in that market. Was 1 of 5 SA's. Was told I "may" be the only offer they make this summer (sucks because I am good friends with one from school). It was insinuated that the no-offers were based on work product & the firm is back @ OCI this fall interviewing 3L's.. so yeah...

Offer was made at lunch by the managing partner and the details were waiting for me on my desk. Offer was made in my last week, but expires the week after I leave the firm I am working at now. (Total 8 weeks time to accept). They want me to sign a three year employment contract with a $10,000 stipulated damages clause.

I was really all about this firm until they made me this offer. Love the town. I was told the time limit & stipulated damages are non-negotiable.

The joys of small-city-law.

Is the clause only if you quit (or, and this would be sketchy as hell, does it apply if they fire you?) If the former, and if you end up wanting to quit, what's to stop you from just doing shitty work, showing up late, leaving early, etc until they fire you/let you leave without paying the damages?

The liquidated damages may just be to cover their paying for bar exam costs and moving fees. To that extent it seems reasonable for a small firm to require you to pay them back.
I would get a good employment lawyer to read the contract. Even if you can't negotiate, they may have thrown in some unenforcable provisions. You need to understand this contract.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Medium-smallish law firm (35 attorneys) in a small market (150k city pop), but largest firm in that market. Was 1 of 5 SA's. Was told I "may" be the only offer they make this summer (sucks because I am good friends with one from school). It was insinuated that the no-offers were based on work product & the firm is back @ OCI this fall interviewing 3L's.. so yeah...

Offer was made at lunch by the managing partner and the details were waiting for me on my desk. Offer was made in my last week, but expires the week after I leave the firm I am working at now. (Total 8 weeks time to accept). They want me to sign a three year employment contract with a $10,000 stipulated damages clause.

I was really all about this firm until they made me this offer. Love the town. I was told the time limit & stipulated damages are non-negotiable.

The joys of small-city-law.

Is the clause only if you quit (or, and this would be sketchy as hell, does it apply if they fire you?) If the former, and if you end up wanting to quit, what's to stop you from just doing shitty work, showing up late, leaving early, etc until they fire you/let you leave without paying the damages?

The liquidated damages may just be to cover their paying for bar exam costs and moving fees. To that extent it seems reasonable for a small firm to require you to pay them back.
I would get a good employment lawyer to read the contract. Even if you can't negotiate, they may have thrown in some unenforcable provisions. You need to understand this contract.

Definitely... that clause seems like it might be suspect unless it is basically repayment for a specific outlay they made on your behalf. It's not like a first year associate is all that hard to replace in this economy. If you quit they could have a new guy in your seat by the end of the week.

[Anonymous User]

no offer. v30. satellite office.

fuck, did they give you any specific reason for it?

OP: Economy.

[msridiculous447]

I'm guessing it's just to pay for bar costs/relocation fees or whatever. They don't want someone saying they'll work there, having the firm pay for their bar stuff and then bolting, I'd guess.

[Anonymous User]

Medium-smallish law firm (35 attorneys) in a small market (150k city pop), but largest firm in that market. Was 1 of 5 SA's. Was told I "may" be the only offer they make this summer (sucks because I am good friends with one from school). It was insinuated that the no-offers were based on work product & the firm is back @ OCI this fall interviewing 3L's.. so yeah...

Offer was made at lunch by the managing partner and the details were waiting for me on my desk. Offer was made in my last week, but expires the week after I leave the firm I am working at now. (Total 8 weeks time to accept). They want me to sign a three year employment contract with a $10,000 stipulated damages clause.

I was really all about this firm until they made me this offer. Love the town. I was told the time limit & stipulated damages are non-negotiable.

The joys of small-city-law.

Is the clause only if you quit (or, and this would be sketchy as hell, does it apply if they fire you?) If the former, and if you end up wanting to quit, what's to stop you from just doing shitty work, showing up late, leaving early, etc until they fire you/let you leave without paying the damages?

The liquidated damages may just be to cover their paying for bar exam costs and moving fees. To that extent it seems reasonable for a small firm to require you to pay them back.
I would get a good employment lawyer to read the contract. Even if you can't negotiate, they may have thrown in some unenforcable provisions. You need to understand this contract.

Definitely... that clause seems like it might be suspect unless it is basically repayment for a specific outlay they made on your behalf. It's not like a first year associate is all that hard to replace in this economy. If you quit they could have a new guy in your seat by the end of the week.

Payable if I quit. There is language about it not being enforced if I am fired or the employment contract is terminated by mutual agreement. They are not advancing moving expenses or bar review/exam fees. That is what I am going to go back at them with to negotiate. Hoping to at least get half that amount advanced.

Wish it wasn't such a short fuse so I could get back to school and start comparing notes with what other folks are getting.

[09042014]

A three year contract is pretty cool. Probably worth 10k early leaving penalty. Assuming you can come after them for your salary if they fire you and you cannot find a job.

[NYstate]

If you like the area and the firm, I wouldn't assume you are going to do better. I would ask an employment attorney.

[Lasers]

no offer. v30. satellite office.

fuck, did they give you any specific reason for it?

OP: Economy.

I'm sorry, that's the worst. Only positive is the firm will at least provide you great recs?

I'm worried about that happening to me as well despite my strong reviews.

[Anonymous User]

V&E Dallas 100% offers

[sundance95]

A three year contract is pretty cool. Probably worth 10k early leaving penalty. Assuming you can come after them for your salary if they fire you and you cannot find a job.

yeah, this... Why would at-will employment be preferable to a 3-year k?

[Anonymous User]

Offer today @ smaller office of a higher ranked firm. Offer came at the end of the week they said decisions would be made and toward the end of the day.... Lesson, Don't freak out prematurely

[Anonymous User]

is there a list where you can see what each firm's callback to Offer ratio is?

[bdubs]

is there a list where you can see what each firm's callback to Offer ratio is?

Wrong kind of offer, but the answer is not really. Have to rely on anecdotes although I think that Columbia had something at some point. Its probably dated year over year anyway ( see the amlaw SA aeticle.)

[Anonymous User]

Firm supposed to give out offers by today. Still nothing. Should I start panicking?

[Anonymous User]

Firm supposed to give out offers by today. Still nothing. Should I start panicking?

Same here. panicking does us no good, so I'm going with drinking.

[Anonymous User]

Offer from my MO biglaw firm!

[dougfunny]

Offer from my MO biglaw firm!

Would you mind PMing me? I am curious about the MO market.

[Anonymous User]

What's the reason firms delay so heartily in making offer decisions after SA? (like say 2-3 weeks after SA is done.) Is it honestly because the hiring committee just takes forever to get together? What else could it be? I've been waiting 2 solid weeks now with no sign of hearing anything (and now the earliest will be 3 more days from now.)

I'm thinking that if they honestly wanted to speculate on the market they would wait a couple months into Sept/Oct.

I'm just mad frustrated right now, want to start enjoying my summer or desperately applying to jobs from the pits of despair already.

SOMEONE RATIONALIZE THIS?????????? I was there for 12 fucking weeks, couldn't this have been sorted out just slightly earlier? I know the drill: no one gives a fuck about summers the firm doesn't revolve around you etcetc. But come on. If I was actually not getting an offer just let me know so I can get back to school and hustle with the 2Ls at a crucial hiring point in the calendar year.

Not to mention, I remember my firm's literature at OCI last year (that they presumably handed out at every school) explicitly stating that "all the summers got offers" but considering interviewing is well under way at many schools, they're clearly not advertising this anymore since they haven't offered us.

I seriously hate everything about this.

/beerrun

[BeenDidThat]

What's the reason firms delay so heartily in making offer decisions after SA? (like say 2-3 weeks after SA is done.) Is it honestly because the hiring committee just takes forever to get together? What else could it be? I've been waiting 2 solid weeks now with no sign of hearing anything (and now the earliest will be 3 more days from now.)

I'm thinking that if they honestly wanted to speculate on the market they would wait a couple months into Sept/Oct.

I'm just mad frustrated right now, want to start enjoying my summer or desperately applying to jobs from the pits of despair already.

SOMEONE RATIONALIZE THIS?????????? I was there for 12 fucking weeks, couldn't this have been sorted out just slightly earlier? I know the drill: no one gives a fuck about summers the firm doesn't revolve around you etcetc. But come on. If I was actually not getting an offer just let me know so I can get back to school and hustle with the 2Ls at a crucial hiring point in the calendar year.

Not to mention, I remember my firm's literature at OCI last year (that they presumably handed out at every school) explicitly stating that "all the summers got offers" but considering interviewing is well under way at many schools, they're clearly not advertising this anymore since they haven't offered us.

I seriously hate everything about this.

/beerrun

You asked people to give you reasons for why you don't get your offer faster, and then said they couldn't give you the most important reason.

Moreover, firms are big institutions. They took time to set up a pipeline so that they don't have to rush to make the decision to the detriment of people who matter a lot more than you: the firm's clients.

[law321]

What's the reason firms delay so heartily in making offer decisions after SA? (like say 2-3 weeks after SA is done.) Is it honestly because the hiring committee just takes forever to get together? What else could it be? I've been waiting 2 solid weeks now with no sign of hearing anything (and now the earliest will be 3 more days from now.)

I'm thinking that if they honestly wanted to speculate on the market they would wait a couple months into Sept/Oct.

I'm just mad frustrated right now, want to start enjoying my summer or desperately applying to jobs from the pits of despair already.

SOMEONE RATIONALIZE THIS?????????? I was there for 12 fucking weeks, couldn't this have been sorted out just slightly earlier? I know the drill: no one gives a fuck about summers the firm doesn't revolve around you etcetc. But come on. If I was actually not getting an offer just let me know so I can get back to school and hustle with the 2Ls at a crucial hiring point in the calendar year.

Not to mention, I remember my firm's literature at OCI last year (that they presumably handed out at every school) explicitly stating that "all the summers got offers" but considering interviewing is well under way at many schools, they're clearly not advertising this anymore since they haven't offered us.

I seriously hate everything about this.

/beerrun

You asked people to give you reasons for why you don't get your offer faster, and then said they couldn't give you the most important reason.

Moreover, firms are big institutions. They took time to set up a pipeline so that they don't have to rush to make the decision to the detriment of people who matter a lot more than you: the firm's clients.

You'd be amazed at how long it can take to (i) gather all outstanding evaluations; (ii) compile and make available to the entire hiring committee a file containing all product generated by each Summer Associate; (iii) provide each hiring committee member some time to review that work, if they so choose; (iv) schedule a lengthy meeting to officially vote during a busy vacation season. The more Summer Associates, the more time it takes.

We realize how difficult it is to have to wait, and we really do try to get things done quickly. But, just to put things in perspective, does it seem like too much to ask for, say, three-four weeks, to offer you a six-figure job that doesn't even begin for over a year?

[NYstate]

What's the reason firms delay so heartily in making offer decisions after SA? (like say 2-3 weeks after SA is done.) Is it honestly because the hiring committee just takes forever to get together? What else could it be? I've been waiting 2 solid weeks now with no sign of hearing anything (and now the earliest will be 3 more days from now.)

I'm thinking that if they honestly wanted to speculate on the market they would wait a couple months into Sept/Oct.

I'm just mad frustrated right now, want to start enjoying my summer or desperately applying to jobs from the pits of despair already.

SOMEONE RATIONALIZE THIS?????????? I was there for 12 fucking weeks, couldn't this have been sorted out just slightly earlier? I know the drill: no one gives a fuck about summers the firm doesn't revolve around you etcetc. But come on. If I was actually not getting an offer just let me know so I can get back to school and hustle with the 2Ls at a crucial hiring point in the calendar year.

Not to mention, I remember my firm's literature at OCI last year (that they presumably handed out at every school) explicitly stating that "all the summers got offers" but considering interviewing is well under way at many schools, they're clearly not advertising this anymore since they haven't offered us.

I seriously hate everything about this.

/beerrun

You really have to get over your entitled attitude and understand how a firm works. If you have this attitude when you start (should you get an offer) you will have problems.
Just start looking for another job and stop whining.

Honestly, the biggest rule for summers is to never complain about anything. Were you complaining like this during the summer? Just from reading your posts and your inability to handle not getting what you want when you want it, I would not want to work with you. I'm starting to think you might have a reason to worry. Maybe you weren't acting so spoiled over the summer, but I bet it showed through.

If you get a job, tone it down completely.

[09042014]

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day Chicago 100% offers the other day. 14/14.

[Anonymous User]

Patton Boggs DC no-offered at least one person this summer after telling her all summer that she was doing a great job and they were looking forward to having her back. The no-offer occurred by phone AFTER the final review on her last day. She received positive comments at the final review.

Don't go to Patton Boggs if you can help it.