2013 UVA OGI Thread Forum

[5ky]

I'm a rising 3L summering at a V50 firm, and I'm currently debating whether I should bid for OGI. In the last few years, my firm has averaged around a 95% offer rate, and last summer the offer rate was 100% (but who knows if there were cold offers). Any thoughts on whether it's a good idea to bid? Is it possible to cancel your interviews if you get an offer you want to accept?

Yeah, you can. I bid solely to cover my bases. I didn't find out about my offer until after I knew if I had interviews or not, but I cancelled all of them once I found out with no problem.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a rising 3L summering at a V50 firm, and I'm currently debating whether I should bid for OGI. In the last few years, my firm has averaged around a 95% offer rate, and last summer the offer rate was 100% (but who knows if there were cold offers). Any thoughts on whether it's a good idea to bid? Is it possible to cancel your interviews if you get an offer you want to accept?

Yeah, you can. I bid solely to cover my bases. I didn't find out about my offer until after I knew if I had interviews or not, but I cancelled all of them once I found out with no problem.

Great. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Is having a 1L SA (in DC) any advantage? I'm sitting at a 3.46 and will probably split bids between DC and NY even though I really only want DC


edit: Also what's the protocol if my firm offers me a 2L position at the end of the summer? Would that expire before I go through OGIs? I'm not in love with the firm, so I'd definitely like to see what else I could get through OGIs

[Anonymous User]

Is having a 1L SA (in DC) any advantage? I'm sitting at a 3.46 and will probably split bids between DC and NY even though I really only want DC


edit: Also what's the protocol if my firm offers me a 2L position at the end of the summer? Would that expire before I go through OGIs? I'm not in love with the firm, so I'd definitely like to see what else I could get through OGIs

I also have a couple SA positions and have asked about this. When given the offer, you have the same "timeline" to accept the offer as any other offer (someone else can tell you how long this is, like 28 days I believe?) but, what many 2Ls at my firm did that were there as 1Ls was ask for an extension of the offer, and due to the circumstances, the firms in this market have tended to say yes. That may not apply to DC, so you should just ask a couple of the 2Ls at your firm that were there as 1Ls

[Anonymous User]

Anon from above. In the past, has VLR extended invites before the bid deadline? This year's deadline is July 13.

Yeah, invites always go out before the bid deadline, as far as I know.

[StanleyF]

But I also definitely plan on applying to New York/Texas/Chicago.

The Chicago bids here might be a waste, unless you have real ties—meaning you have lived there or have family that lives there.

Some markets, particularly Chicago and Boston, are very picky about ties. They don't want to waste callbacks on people who are using them as a safety because they couldn't fill out their bids with firms in other cities. And both markets have lots of big firms that will have their pick of legitimately interested applicants, so they don't have to take a chance on candidates with shaky ties. That's why they ask about where else you have applied, and while you can offer the standard "in this economy ..." answer, they hear that from everyone and pretty much see right through it.

[Anonymous User]

So is it worth shelling out the 600-1000 for a custom made suit? I know some of my friends are doing the custom made brooks brothers stuff. I have a calvin klein and perry ellis trim fit that fit well but not custom fit level, and they were 150-200 each hunting burlington coat factory last year. I look good in them, but obviously not custom fit good. How particular are firms on looks? Will being a regular looking in shape guy be not as good as looking sexy as shit? I just know most big lawyers I know are not "lookers" so didn't think it mattered. I have no issue spending the money if it'll help at all. Yes, I can always use another suit but idk how it will fit when I wear them daily. I was 5 percent body far pre law school, 15 percent after my last final and my waist grew like 2.5 inches. I should get back to 6-7 by OGI but idk if it's sustainable long term. Are custom suits really such a thing? If so why brooks? I know they're nice but at that price wouldn't it be worth it to go for Italian fabric?

[desertlaw]

I am no suit expert, but plenty of people get jobs with a normal/average suit that you have described. I will not respond to thes rest of your body fat/sexy discussion because it is silly but I did put on 20lbs during summer associate life. And OGI will make you fat too if you have lots of callbacks. So maybe you should try to not be a fatty so that you can fit in your suits. You don't need to look like Harvey Spector to get a job at OGI.

Take the custom suit discussion to another thread.

[Anonymous User]

Same postr - 3.65 nyc dude wanting LA. I'll adopt the name Scrotum McBuggerballs.

My religion - I follow the hawk. I'm kidding - I'm a big fat J-O-O, so for life need a city where I can give my unborn children a Jewish upbringing. This limits me to the major metropolitan cities. I'm going to drop talking about this though, because it doesn't answer why LA specifically.

Will film be a detriment outside of entertainment law? Only a few big firms have this, and I'm not willing to make 80 vs 160 to do a particular type of law. Under the table and this may out myself, I have minimal passion and just want to make as much money as humanly possible without doing sketchy stuff. Will film be a risk to sell to non-entertainment firms? Do you recommend listing my film internships for these firms? I've had a 10 yr work history and an extensive one because in order to support myself I'd always need multiple jobs given film's inconsistency. I also don't think non-film people can appreciate how much work being on a set is (1L was much less work) so I don't list much.

Also, is there a way to research what firms have a gym in the building, have basketball leagues, have the most chilled out associates?

Thanks dude. You're so helpful and nice to be helping us clueless mofos!

Same poster. Thanks!

Will saying that I went on some vacations there, have friends and religious affiliations out there and studied film and screenwriting, and worked briefly in the industry be sufficient? Would you recommend going more into detail on film experience on my resume (although it was only NYC documentary based) for these firms? Will it frighten firms?

The truth is I was really close to attending USC, but was paranoid by their employment numbers and fear I'd be below median given I hadn't read a book for about 10 years. Should I mention this without the reading part?

I think that if you say that your good group of college friends live there + having experience in film industry is probably good enough. I'm not sure what religion is specific to LA unless you're a scientologist? Maybe not discuss religion and just say you have a good amount of friends/family out there. Throw in something about "seeing yourself there long-term" and that's likely sufficient. I think saying you were close to attending USC might be dangerous because it could raise the question of why he'd go to UVa if he really liked Los Angeles that much; also could be seen as slight to USC (there are tons of their alumni at firms in Cali). You could maybe pull it off by saying, "I really wanted to live in an isolated, small-town community for 3 years because I'd never have that chance again."

[desertlaw]

Same postr - 3.65 nyc dude wanting LA. I'll adopt the name Scrotum McBuggerballs.

My religion - I follow the hawk. I'm kidding - I'm a big fat J-O-O, so for life need a city where I can give my unborn children a Jewish upbringing. This limits me to the major metropolitan cities. I'm going to drop talking about this though, because it doesn't answer why LA specifically.

Will film be a detriment outside of entertainment law? Only a few big firms have this, and I'm not willing to make 80 vs 160 to do a particular type of law. Under the table and this may out myself, I have minimal passion and just want to make as much money as humanly possible without doing sketchy stuff. Will film be a risk to sell to non-entertainment firms? Do you recommend listing my film internships for these firms? I've had a 10 yr work history and an extensive one because in order to support myself I'd always need multiple jobs given film's inconsistency. I also don't think non-film people can appreciate how much work being on a set is (1L was much less work) so I don't list much.

Also, is there a way to research what firms have a gym in the building, have basketball leagues, have the most chilled out associates?

Thanks dude. You're so helpful and nice to be helping us clueless mofos!

"

So you should include your film stuff if it an important part of your past and you can spin it to how it will make you a better lawyer (working on various projects seeing them thru completion). I wouldn't talk about LA having an entertainment industry as the sole reason of wanting to be there. It's a small reason but you should have others (visited/family/friends).

For the whole cool associates/basketball leagues thing, that's something that Chambers and Associates is good for. Also somewhat firm websites. And then just word of mouth. Gibson has super smart ppl that love reading law review articles, Latham/Skadden is known for being more bros. Quinn attorneys wear sandals to work. Davis Polk has some genuinely nice and polite people. You will figure some of that out during callbacks. Firms generally self-select. But O'MM Century City might be more similar to Jones Day LA than O'MM DC because location has a lot to do with firm personality/culture as well. But if it comes to the point where you have multiple offers in the same market, most people choose the firms that they feel comfortable at.

Edit: think of choosing firms like you did law schools. UVA has a certain culture with similar people. But there are always ppl at that firm/school that don't fit the stereotype.

[Anonymous User]

median GPA. some WE. interested in SF market with ties.

Even if i bid all SF firms I still have about 20 bids left. I am thinking about bidding NY. Will it be stupid to use all the remaining bids in NY?

-April fools

[sprezz]

So is it worth shelling out the 600-1000 for a custom made suit? I know some of my friends are doing the custom made brooks brothers stuff. I have a calvin klein and perry ellis trim fit that fit well but not custom fit level, and they were 150-200 each hunting burlington coat factory last year. I look good in them, but obviously not custom fit good. How particular are firms on looks? Will being a regular looking in shape guy be not as good as looking sexy as shit? I just know most big lawyers I know are not "lookers" so didn't think it mattered. I have no issue spending the money if it'll help at all. Yes, I can always use another suit but idk how it will fit when I wear them daily. I was 5 percent body far pre law school, 15 percent after my last final and my waist grew like 2.5 inches. I should get back to 6-7 by OGI but idk if it's sustainable long term. Are custom suits really such a thing? If so why brooks? I know they're nice but at that price wouldn't it be worth it to go for Italian fabric?

i have a m2m suit, not from brooks brothers. personally, i do not think it's worth getting one, IF you have a suit that fits you technically [shoulders in the right spots, sleeves appropriate length, jacket covers your ass], in a dark worsted wool without a sheen to it, and without any odd details [big/peak lapels, 4+ buttons (3 is too many if you're short)]. based on your descriptions, i tentatively think you might be fine. i dunno where the status of the rest of your wardrobe is, but i would spend $700 on allen edmonds before i spent $1k on a custom suit. unlike an m2m suit, those shoes will fit at least until you're 40, and also unlike an m2m suit they might actually hold up that long (as long as you have two to start with so you can rotate them appropriately).

as far as brooks vs. other options...meh. brooks is fine, it's available everywhere, when they screw up they have the resources to fix things. their fabrics aren't the reason i would recommend looking elsewhere. personally, for a suit [especially one of any degree of custom], i'd really recommend working with a tailor that knows your preferences and your needs but isn't just trying to appease you for the sake of selling a suit. it's easy to drop a grand on a suit at brooks and regret a detail you thought you wanted really badly. if you're gonna do it, find a tailor somewhere other than brooks--or at the very least a brooks associate--that pushes you back on some things. my tailor about slapped me across the face when i told him i was considering a m2m interview suit with peak lapels 2 years ago. thank god for that.

[5ky]

So is it worth shelling out the 600-1000 for a custom made suit? I know some of my friends are doing the custom made brooks brothers stuff. I have a calvin klein and perry ellis trim fit that fit well but not custom fit level, and they were 150-200 each hunting burlington coat factory last year. I look good in them, but obviously not custom fit good. How particular are firms on looks? Will being a regular looking in shape guy be not as good as looking sexy as shit? I just know most big lawyers I know are not "lookers" so didn't think it mattered. I have no issue spending the money if it'll help at all. Yes, I can always use another suit but idk how it will fit when I wear them daily. I was 5 percent body far pre law school, 15 percent after my last final and my waist grew like 2.5 inches. I should get back to 6-7 by OGI but idk if it's sustainable long term. Are custom suits really such a thing? If so why brooks? I know they're nice but at that price wouldn't it be worth it to go for Italian fabric?

Read over some of the OCI clothing threads to get a sense. You don't need a custom made suit from brooks brothers for OGI. But it's important that your suit fit well, so maybe think about taking it to a tailor before OGI for some touchups. Also, it should probably be charcoal or navy, and really try to avoid pinstripes wherever possible. Toss in a white/light blue shirt and a conservative tie and you'll be okay.

[anon sequitur]

am I reading stuff wrong or are there quite a few firms that don't want a cover letter? Do they not want to read my bs about being a detail oriented self-starter?

[5ky]

am I reading stuff wrong or are there quite a few firms that don't want a cover letter? Do they not want to read my bs about being a detail oriented self-starter?

Only a handful of firms require it (and only a handful require a writing sample). In general, firms make their decision to interviews on two pieces of paper: your transcript, and your resume

[desertlaw]

median GPA. some WE. interested in SF market with ties.

Even if i bid all SF firms I still have about 20 bids left. I am thinking about bidding NY. Will it be stupid to use all the remaining bids in NY?

-April fools

Yeah, you will want to hustle for a job in SF. Start contacting alumni and connections in SF, see if they have any advice. Don't assume you'll get a gig through OGI. Practice a lot on your interviews. If you have remaining bids, you want to bid firms that have big summer classes, so NYC makes sense. Perhaps even LA though, but the firms with bigger classes are probably out of your grade range (Gibson/Latham). NYC probably makes the most sense with your remaining bids.

[5ky]

I'd do a secondary market to which you have ties if possible. Unless you put your NY firms at the very top of your list (so you get some interviews via the lottery), you probably won't get all that many preselects there. I posted about the problems of using NY as a backup earlier ITT

[desertlaw]

I agree with 5ky but had assumed you didn't have ties to southern/secondary markets because you had ties to SF. Regional markets might be better. There also might be some Pacific NW firms coming to OGI? But I am not sure about that for this year. Those might give you a better shot than NY. I'm guessing a firm in Seattle/Portland/Mizzoula/Billings/Boise thinks median at UVa is probably same as top of the class at Gonzaga/UW, but I am not sure on that?

[Anonymous User]

So, I'm doing PLIP, OGI, SFIPLA, and OTIP (all job fairs for the uninitiated).

Should I be strategizing what firms I pick for each fair? Worry about "double dipping" a firm? With the combined 100+ bids, I can cover DC and Norcal + my home market

I was the 3.7x IP guy going for norcal from above.

- Mungo

[Anonymous User]

So I feel as if the 3.7X crowd is fairly over represented on TLS.

My grades are in the upper 3.7X range. Good grades in UG, but I don't have a particular marketable UG degree (not accounting or IP secure).

I'm aiming for DC and the Richmond market. I've contacted the big three firms in Richmond, but my only ties with the state are attending UVA and spending time in Virginia when I was younger. Any suggestions on what I might be able to do to convince a Richmond firm that I really want to work in the state?

Also, any suggestions for firms in the DC area that are not billable hour monsters. I'm married and have no problem working long hours, but I'd prefer to not work seven days a week.

- Honorable Penguin

[desertlaw]

So, I'm doing PLIP, OGI, SFIPLA, and OTIP (all job fairs for the uninitiated).

Should I be strategizing what firms I pick for each fair? Worry about "double dipping" a firm? With the combined 100+ bids, I can cover DC and Norcal + my home market

I was the 3.7x IP guy going for norcal from above.

- Mungo

Your biggest concern should be burnout/fatigue during OCI because you're going to be coveted by pretty much anywhere you interview if you're a normal person. I'd try to get an offer early (pre-OGI) so that you can only do the firms at OGI that you're really interested in. I haven't had experience with the fairs, but your concern will likely be choosing what firm you like best instead of just finding a job.

Enjoy Quinn SV.

[desertlaw]

So I feel as if the 3.7X crowd is fairly over represented on TLS.

My grades are in the upper 3.7X range. Good grades in UG, but I don't have a particular marketable UG degree (not accounting or IP secure).

I'm aiming for DC and the Richmond market. I've contacted the big three firms in Richmond, but my only ties with the state are attending UVA and spending time in Virginia when I was younger. Any suggestions on what I might be able to do to convince a Richmond firm that I really want to work in the state?

Also, any suggestions for firms in the DC area that are not billable hour monsters. I'm married and have no problem working long hours, but I'd prefer to not work seven days a week.

- Honorable Penguin

I've heard people with 3.7x have had trouble in smaller markets without ties because those firms think you are just using them as a safety. So I'd reach out to alumni at those firms and try to convince them you're really interested in Richmond and why.

Exactly why are you interested in Richmond? I mean, the Whole Foods at Short Pump is wonderful. But I feel like Richmond is the type of place you can live in after you're in D.C. for awhile. Ah, now I am reading you are married. That makes sense. Well, just try to reach out personally to some attorneys/alumni at those Richmond firm and tell them why you're eager to live in Richmond.

Any biglaw firm will be lots of hours, and your hours will often depend on practice areas (you could be super busy at a slower firm or not as busy at a firm that's super busy, all depending on your practice area). For what it's worth, I've heard regulatory work in D.C. isn't as brutal on the hours. I'm not sure exactly which firms in D.C. are known for less hours, but that's something that Chambers & Associates is for.

[Anonymous User]

Median with lots of NJ ties.

Better to use top bids for NJ / CT firms and then bid on NYC? I'd rather work in NYC but I'd be content (and feel like I have a stronger case) for NJ

[desertlaw]

Median with lots of NJ ties.

Better to use top bids for NJ / CT firms and then bid on NYC? I'd rather work in NYC but I'd be content (and feel like I have a stronger case) for NJ

Not really familiar with NJ/CT firms or which ones come to OGI, but what you said probably makes sense (maybe put 1-2 NYC firms in your top 10). If there aren't many NJ/CT firms coming to OGI though, and not many people bidding on NJ/CT firms, you might have better chance at pre-select (and could have them lower on the list). Either way, I'd mass-mail firms that aren't coming.

[5ky]

Median with lots of NJ ties.

Better to use top bids for NJ / CT firms and then bid on NYC? I'd rather work in NYC but I'd be content (and feel like I have a stronger case) for NJ

Not really familiar with NJ/CT firms or which ones come to OGI, but what you said probably makes sense (maybe put 1-2 NYC firms in your top 10). If there aren't many NJ/CT firms coming to OGI though, and not many people bidding on NJ/CT firms, you might have better chance at pre-select (and could have them lower on the list). Either way, I'd mass-mail firms that aren't coming.

Yeah, it's perhaps a bit riskier, but probably the best bet to maximize interviews, if you were able to move the NJ/CT firms mostly out of the top 10. At median, you probably won't get getting a ton of preselects for NY firms, so if you want interviews there, they'd come via the lottery.

That being said, I don't know how strong your ties are and how well they come across on your 1 page resume. Hopefully those NJ/CT firms ask for cover letters, because it'd be easier to show. Maybe ask career services, or maybe somebody else here has a trick for showing ties via the resume.