HLS 2012 EIP Thread Forum

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Checking in.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys.. wanted to run something by you all with bidding coming up. My grades are mediocre(1H/9P), at best, and I am considering bidding Boston and another secondary market where I have ties, but no NYC. I am an URM, a good interviewer and have a few leadership positions in orgs on campus but I dont know how much that helps with poor grades. Am I being absolutely insane not making one of markets NYC?? (OCS forbids bidding 3 markets so I assume that isnt an option)

OCS discourages bidding on 3+ markets (because it's usually a dumb idea, especially if you have one H), but it doesn't ban you from doing so and it doesn't review bidlists unless solicited to do so. I know multiple people who bid on 3 markets last year. You could bid on 35 different markets if you wanted to. In your position, I'd probably bid 20 NYC and 15 between your secondary market and Boston.

[Anonymous User]

HLS rising 3L checking in. For what it's worth, if you have above-median/top-third grades and are bidding on NYC, you pretty much have your choice of firms (aside from maybe Wachtell, but I didn't bid there). 5H/5P got me Cravath, and anecdotally I know tons of people who aren't law review material and had their pick of V15. If you interview well, don't be afraid to bid on top firms; my only regret is that I didn't bid on more of them.

[Anonymous User]

HLS rising 3L checking in. For what it's worth, if you have above-median/top-third grades and are bidding on NYC, you pretty much have your choice of firms (aside from maybe Wachtell, but I didn't bid there). 5H/5P got me Cravath, and anecdotally I know tons of people who aren't law review material and had their pick of V15. If you interview well, don't be afraid to bid on top firms; my only regret is that I didn't bid on more of them.

agreed. i had 7 hs after 1l year and dominated the nyc market. i was basically lebron james in game 6 of the eastern conference finals with respect to every nyc firm not named wachtell lipton.

i was far less successful with dc and sf firms, however. i performed less like james and more like kwame brown in those markets.

moral of the story: nyc is an easy market if you've got a decent transcript. even the relatively selective nyc firms are attainable with a decent transcript and solid interviewing skills.

good luck

[Anonymous User]

Can I please get a bid list critique? Interested in litigation and my preferred market is LA. Please don't quote, i'm going to edit out my bid list later. Let me know if any additional details are necessary.

Top 5%, LR
Number in parenthesis is interview slots on symplicity.
1. Susman Godfrey – LA (8)
2. Keker & Van Nest – SF (20)
3. Munger, Tolles & Olson – LA (40)
4. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher – LA (40)
5. Williams & Connolly LLP – DC (72)
6. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz – NY (100)
7. Sidley Austin – LA (20)
8. Irell & Manella – LA (52)
9. Jenner & Block – LA (20)
10. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom -- LA (40)
11. Kirkland & Ellis – LA (40)
12. O'Melveny & Myers – Century City/Downtown (40)
13. Morrison & Foerster – SF (31)
14. Arnold & Porter – LA (20)
15. Paul Hastings – LA (20)
16. Latham & Watkins – LA (38)
17. Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton -- Century City (40)
18. Crowell & Moring – LA (20)
19. Bingham McCutchen -- LA (20)
20. Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy -- LA (20)
21. Morrison & Foerster – LA (20)
22. Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe, LLP -- LA (20)
23. Sullivan & Cromwell – LA (20)
24. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett – LA (20)
25. Foley & Lardner -- LA (40)
26. K&L Gates – LA (20)
27. hogan lovells – LA (20)
28. Sidley Austin – DC (100)
29. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher -- DC (80)
30. Covington & Burling – DC (140)
31. WilmerHale – DC (80)
32. Cravath, Swaine & Moore – NY (104)
33. Boies, Schiller & Flexner -- NY (18)
34. Ropes & Gray – Boston (280)
35. Davis, Polk & Wardwell – NY (220)
36. Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton – NY (200)

[Anonymous User]

You will get much better feedback if you post your grades. It looks like you picked a lot of firms based on prestige without researching what they do. For example, it doesn't make sense to bid Wachtell that high if you want litigation. Also, four markets is probably too much. Keep LA and cut two of the other three

[Anonymous User]

You will get much better feedback if you post your grades. It looks like you picked a lot of firms based on prestige without researching what they do. For example, it doesn't make sense to bid Wachtell that high if you want litigation. Also, four markets is probably too much. Keep LA and cut two of the other three

Thanks for the response. Top 5%, LR. What other firms do I have too high? And for Wachtell, I'd do corporate work (not necessarily married to litigation, but leaning heavily towards it). I anticipate having an offer or two from firms that I am interested in pre-EIP, so I suppose i'm willing to be somewhat risky on bids.

[Anonymous User]

Meh, with those grades you can't really screw up a list. The only suggestion I'd make is that you should think about bidding Arnold & Porter in SF instead of, or in addition to, LA. They merged with Howard Rice (elite SF litigation shop) this last year and you might get a better experience there than in the LA office.

[captain planet 1]

CSM Question: When it says that you if you are interested in interviewing with more than one location for an employer, but that employer is listed several times with different cities under each listing, does that mean that we only have to interview once per group of locations or for all locations?

Here's a less confusing example: Jones Day says that if we are interested in more than one location, we only have to have one interview. But there are different cities under each listing for Jones Day, i.e. Jones Day Chicago is separate from Jones Day Cleveland-Columbus-Pittsburgh-Dallas-Houson. If I wanted to work in Dallas and Houston I would only have to interview with that one Jones Day slot, but what if I wanted to work in Dallas or Columbus, which are different 'listings' of Jones Day?

[GeePee]

Can I please get a bid list critique? Interested in litigation and my preferred market is LA. Please don't quote, i'm going to edit out my bid list later. Let me know if any additional details are necessary.

Top 5%, LR
Number in parenthesis is interview slots on symplicity.
1. Susman Godfrey – LA (8)
2. Keker & Van Nest – SF (20)
3. Munger, Tolles & Olson – LA (40)
4. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher – LA (40)
5. Williams & Connolly LLP – DC (72)
6. Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz – NY (100)
7. Sidley Austin – LA (20)
8. Irell & Manella – LA (52)
9. Jenner & Block – LA (20)
10. Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom -- LA (40)
11. Kirkland & Ellis – LA (40)
12. O'Melveny & Myers – Century City/Downtown (40)
13. Morrison & Foerster – SF (31)
14. Arnold & Porter – LA (20)
15. Paul Hastings – LA (20)
16. Latham & Watkins – LA (38)
17. Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton -- Century City (40)
18. Crowell & Moring – LA (20)
19. Bingham McCutchen -- LA (20)
20. Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy -- LA (20)
21. Morrison & Foerster – LA (20)
22. Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe, LLP -- LA (20)
23. Sullivan & Cromwell – LA (20)
24. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett – LA (20)
25. Foley & Lardner -- LA (40)
26. K&L Gates – LA (20)
27. Hogan Lovells – LA (20)
28. Sidley Austin – DC (100)
29. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher -- DC (80)
30. Covington & Burling – DC (140)
31. WilmerHale – DC (80)
32. Cravath, Swaine & Moore – NY (104)
33. Boies, Schiller & Flexner -- NY (18)
34. Ropes & Gray – Boston (280)
35. Davis, Polk & Wardwell – NY (220)
36. Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton – NY (200)

Do whatever the hell you want with top 5 and LR. It won't matter.

[Anonymous User]

Please don't quote. Thank you.

[fatduck]

Please don't quote. Thank you.

come on guys, when HLS posts their annual list of GREATEST BIDLISTS OF ALL TIME, OP's anonymity is going to be ruined

[Anonymous User]

Please don't quote. Thank you.

come on guys, when HLS posts their annual list of GREATEST BIDLISTS OF ALL TIME, OP's anonymity is going to be ruined

Can we keep this thread on-topic?

[delusional]

Please don't quote. Thank you.

come on guys, when HLS posts their annual list of GREATEST BIDLISTS OF ALL TIME, OP's anonymity is going to be ruined

Yo, Anonymous, I'm really happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Anonymous had one of the greatest bidlists of all time!

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with firms that in a previous year interviewed four people, called back one, and he didn't accept the callback? Are those just super safeties who are dying to hire a Harvard student, or is there some story there? I see three or four firms like that in NY last year, and they tend to have strange numbers all around. For example, Hunton & Williams: 9 bids, 2 interviews, 2 call back offers, both declined. What went on in those situations?

[englawyer]

What's the deal with firms that in a previous year interviewed four people, called back one, and he didn't accept the callback? Are those just super safeties who are dying to hire a Harvard student, or is there some story there? I see three or four firms like that in NY last year, and they tend to have strange numbers all around. For example, Hunton & Williams: 9 bids, 2 interviews, 2 call back offers, both declined. What went on in those situations?

those firms are like moderately cute girls that complain about being single when its really their own fault because of overly high standards.

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with firms that in a previous year interviewed four people, called back one, and he didn't accept the callback? Are those just super safeties who are dying to hire a Harvard student, or is there some story there? I see three or four firms like that in NY last year, and they tend to have strange numbers all around. For example, Hunton & Williams: 9 bids, 2 interviews, 2 call back offers, both declined. What went on in those situations?

those firms are like moderately cute girls that complain about being single when its really their own fault because of overly high standards.

Seriously, though, what does it mean when a firm has 9 bids and 3 interviews? Does it mean that people cancelled their interviews? That the firm was only planning on 3 slots?

And then, when they call back all the people who interviewed and no one goes, is it safe to assume that this firm is good to use as a safety?

[AllTheLawz]

What's the deal with firms that in a previous year interviewed four people, called back one, and he didn't accept the callback? Are those just super safeties who are dying to hire a Harvard student, or is there some story there? I see three or four firms like that in NY last year, and they tend to have strange numbers all around. For example, Hunton & Williams: 9 bids, 2 interviews, 2 call back offers, both declined. What went on in those situations?

those firms are like moderately cute girls that complain about being single when its really their own fault because of overly high standards.

Seriously, though, what does it mean when a firm has 9 bids and 3 interviews? Does it mean that people cancelled their interviews? That the firm was only planning on 3 slots?

And then, when they call back all the people who interviewed and no one goes, is it safe to assume that this firm is good to use as a safety?

Im not 100% sure if that means the firm itself actually got x number of bids. Ive noticed those weird numbers often show up in connection with firms that allow people to interview for multiple offices on one schedule. Since the numbers on the spreadsheet are reported by the firms, it may be that the firm submits data based on where poeple indicate their primary interest. Hunton & Williams only has like 70 firms in its NY offices so its possible that few people who bid Hunton & Williams listed it as their primary interest and most people who did ended up at a firm with a larger NYC presence.

[Anonymous User]

Hey all. Transfer student here from T30 school. Keeping on my resume that I was invited to LR at old school and was head of affinity group (not sure how much that matters). Have 4 years of WE.

I've narrowed down my list of firms, and I'm starting to think about order. Any thoughts? Anyone know if any of these firms are transfer friendly or unfriendly? Any transfer friendly firms I should have on my list? I have 38, so I'm looking to knock out 3.

Sheppard Mullin (LA) (V92)
Gibson (LA) (V12)
Irell (LA) (V44)
Munger (LA) (V38)
O’Mel (Century City) (V24)
Mitchell (LA) (no V)
Jenner (LA) (V55)
Akin (LA) (V27)
Latham (LA) (V10)
Bingham (LA) (V56)

Covington (NY) (V11)
Cravath (NY) (V2)
Debevoise (NY) (V13)
Fried Frank (NY) (V33)
Gibson (NY) (120) (REPEAT)
Greenberg (NY) (V58)
Hughes (NY) (V77)
Kirkland (NY) (V9)
Patterson (NY) (V95)
Paul Weiss (NY) (V14)
Proskauer (NY) (V37)
Weil (NY) (V6)

Ropes (NY) (V25)
Kilpatrick (NY) (no V)

hogan lovells (NY) (V41)
Skaaden (NY) (V3)
Davis Polk (NY) (V5)
Shearman Sterling (NY) (V23)

Cahill (NY) (V54)

Kramer (NY) (V82)
Winston (NY) (V46)

Bryan Cave (Santa Monica) (V72)

Cleary (NY) (V8)
Milbank (NY) (V32)
Schulte (NY) (V80)
Simpson Thacher (NY) (V7)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (V4)

Paul Hastings (NY) (V29)

[Anonymous User]

Hey all. Transfer student here from T30 school. Keeping on my resume that I was invited to LR at old school and was head of affinity group (not sure how much that matters). Have 4 years of WE.

I've narrowed down my list of firms, and I'm starting to think about order. Any thoughts? Anyone know if any of these firms are transfer friendly or unfriendly? Any transfer friendly firms I should have on my list? I have 38, so I'm looking to knock out 3.

Sheppard Mullin (LA) (V92)
Gibson (LA) (V12)
Irell (LA) (V44)
Munger (LA) (V38)
O’Mel (Century City) (V24)
Mitchell (LA) (no V)
Jenner (LA) (V55)
Akin (LA) (V27)
Latham (LA) (V10)
Bingham (LA) (V56)

Covington (NY) (V11)
Cravath (NY) (V2)
Debevoise (NY) (V13)
Fried Frank (NY) (V33)
Gibson (NY) (120) (REPEAT)
Greenberg (NY) (V58)
Hughes (NY) (V77)
Kirkland (NY) (V9)
Patterson (NY) (V95)
Paul Weiss (NY) (V14)
Proskauer (NY) (V37)
Weil (NY) (V6)

Ropes (NY) (V25)
Kilpatrick (NY) (no V)

Hogan Lovells (NY) (V41)
Skaaden (NY) (V3)
Davis Polk (NY) (V5)
Shearman Sterling (NY) (V23)

Cahill (NY) (V54)

Kramer (NY) (V82)
Winston (NY) (V46)

Bryan Cave (Santa Monica) (V72)

Cleary (NY) (V8)
Milbank (NY) (V32)
Schulte (NY) (V80)
Simpson Thacher (NY) (V7)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (V4)

Paul Hastings (NY) (V29)

Order should be straightforward. Use the spreadsheet on OCS website as a basis. Bid the firms with low interview percentages higher, and the firms with higher interview percentages lower. Adjust for personal preference. Post bids to symplicity.

Justice Homes

[Anonymous User]

Hey all. Transfer student here from T30 school. Keeping on my resume that I was invited to LR at old school and was head of affinity group (not sure how much that matters). Have 4 years of WE.

I've narrowed down my list of firms, and I'm starting to think about order. Any thoughts? Anyone know if any of these firms are transfer friendly or unfriendly? Any transfer friendly firms I should have on my list? I have 38, so I'm looking to knock out 3.

Sheppard Mullin (LA) (V92)
Gibson (LA) (V12)
Irell (LA) (V44)
Munger (LA) (V38)
O’Mel (Century City) (V24)
Mitchell (LA) (no V)
Jenner (LA) (V55)
Akin (LA) (V27)
Latham (LA) (V10)
Bingham (LA) (V56)

Covington (NY) (V11)
Cravath (NY) (V2)
Debevoise (NY) (V13)
Fried Frank (NY) (V33)
Gibson (NY) (120) (REPEAT)
Greenberg (NY) (V58)
Hughes (NY) (V77)
Kirkland (NY) (V9)
Patterson (NY) (V95)
Paul Weiss (NY) (V14)
Proskauer (NY) (V37)
Weil (NY) (V6)

Ropes (NY) (V25)
Kilpatrick (NY) (no V)

Hogan Lovells (NY) (V41)
Skaaden (NY) (V3)
Davis Polk (NY) (V5)
Shearman Sterling (NY) (V23)

Cahill (NY) (V54)

Kramer (NY) (V82)
Winston (NY) (V46)

Bryan Cave (Santa Monica) (V72)

Cleary (NY) (V8)
Milbank (NY) (V32)
Schulte (NY) (V80)
Simpson Thacher (NY) (V7)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (V4)

Paul Hastings (NY) (V29)

Order should be straightforward. Use the spreadsheet on OCS website as a basis. Bid the firms with low interview percentages higher, and the firms with higher interview percentages lower. Adjust for personal preference. Post bids to symplicity.

Justice Homes

Guess I should adopt a name for myself. I'll go w/ Yoshi.

I figured the spreadsheet is the way to go, but I was also wondering how the transfer business might come into play, and whether that should affect ranking or whether I should even bid on a firm.

Thanks though.

-Yoshi

[Anonymous User]

Hey all. Transfer student here from T30 school. Keeping on my resume that I was invited to LR at old school and was head of affinity group (not sure how much that matters). Have 4 years of WE.

I've narrowed down my list of firms, and I'm starting to think about order. Any thoughts? Anyone know if any of these firms are transfer friendly or unfriendly? Any transfer friendly firms I should have on my list? I have 38, so I'm looking to knock out 3.

Sheppard Mullin (LA) (V92)
Gibson (LA) (V12)
Irell (LA) (V44)
Munger (LA) (V38)
O’Mel (Century City) (V24)
Mitchell (LA) (no V)
Jenner (LA) (V55)
Akin (LA) (V27)
Latham (LA) (V10)
Bingham (LA) (V56)

Covington (NY) (V11)
Cravath (NY) (V2)
Debevoise (NY) (V13)
Fried Frank (NY) (V33)
Gibson (NY) (120) (REPEAT)
Greenberg (NY) (V58)
Hughes (NY) (V77)
Kirkland (NY) (V9)
Patterson (NY) (V95)
Paul Weiss (NY) (V14)
Proskauer (NY) (V37)
Weil (NY) (V6)

Ropes (NY) (V25)
Kilpatrick (NY) (no V)

Hogan Lovells (NY) (V41)
Skaaden (NY) (V3)
Davis Polk (NY) (V5)
Shearman Sterling (NY) (V23)

Cahill (NY) (V54)

Kramer (NY) (V82)
Winston (NY) (V46)

Bryan Cave (Santa Monica) (V72)

Cleary (NY) (V8)
Milbank (NY) (V32)
Schulte (NY) (V80)
Simpson Thacher (NY) (V7)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) (V4)

Paul Hastings (NY) (V29)

Order should be straightforward. Use the spreadsheet on OCS website as a basis. Bid the firms with low interview percentages higher, and the firms with higher interview percentages lower. Adjust for personal preference. Post bids to symplicity.

Justice Homes

Guess I should adopt a name for myself. I'll go w/ Yoshi.

I figured the spreadsheet is the way to go, but I was also wondering how the transfer business might come into play, and whether that should affect ranking or whether I should even bid on a firm.

Thanks though.

-Yoshi

OCS should be able to give you a (poor) answer to that. IMHO, if you were able to transfer in, you should be seen at the very least as above median, which means that almost none of your firms are more than minor reaches. Alternatively, you should look at it as though they are judging your performance at your old school, and if you transferred to H, that means prob. top few students at a T1 - so again, not many of the firms are crazy reaches.

Bidding on two cities makes it more possible to screw up, and while I don't know the specifics of your former class, it is possible that you should take out one or two of Paul Weiss, Cravath, SullCrom, Davis Polk, etc. (i.e. the selective v10s) and replace with some firms in the 30-50 range with big summer classes.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Is there an upper limit to how many firms we should bid on for one day (b/c of time conflicts)? For example, I have twelve firms on my bid list right now that are interviewing 8/13 and probably would get interviews with at least 8 of them based on where I have ranked. Is it tough to fit that many interviews in one day, scheduling-wise?

On a different note, I have 2H's and 8P's. OCS recommends that someone in that grade range bid on no more than 8 reaches. Bidding on NY and Chicago, I have Cleary (NY), STB (NY), DPW (NY), Kirkland (CHI), Sidley (CHI), Weil (NY), Skadden (NY), Latham (NY). I chose ones that have a reputation for being less grade selective and that are easy to get interviews with. Among the V10-15 does this look like a good list of conceivably attainable reaches for someone with my grades? Are these worthwhile bids? Is OCS's advice of 8 reaches good? Also, Cleary and STB are interviewing on 8/13 and since they interview almost everyone I'd probably get screeners with them. Since I've already got a lot of other interviews on that day, would it make sense to switch them for reaches on another day? Any advice on other firms that I might substitute?

[Anonymous User]

Do firms ever ask for references from our 1L summer employers?