Top 50 go-to law schools 2012 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Where is University of Indiana? So much for being at top 25 school, lol

[071816]

Where is University of Indiana? So much for being at top 25 school, lol

y u post anonymously in this thread

[rayiner]

The overall numbers were actually better than I thought they'd be--Penn somehow put more people into Biglaw than the previous year, which like whoah. I am mentally shaking my fist at Michigan, because bad bidding strategy or whatever aside peer schools should be peer and Penn and NU shouldn't have almost 80% more people finding success in any year.

I am having trouble reconciling these numbers with the OCI data that was floating around from a year ago. I think multiple people posted that Chicago, Columbia and NYU all had a smidge less than 70% success rates for OCI participants. Later on Chicago and NYU actually released how many people did 2L jobs at law firms--it was 69% for Chicago and 55% for NYU.

So I'm wondering how 70% success at NYU ---> 55% doing a summer SA
and also how 69% summer SA at Chicago ---> 45% actually landing at a big law firm.

Lot's of people don't do OCI. The 70% is out of "OCI participants." At NYU, 20% of folks not doing OCI doesn't seem unreasonable (it's at least 10% here at NU).

Also remember that the NLJ250 stats have "total JD graduates" as the denominator. This means people who have a 2L SA then do a clerkship aren't counted as "employed at NLJ250 firms." If 10% of people do a clerkship, and a few more people do government, etc, after a big-law SA, then 55% doing an SA translates to 40-45% working at an NLJ250 firm.

Also note that any school that has a lot of JD-MBA's is penalized a bit on this list. Out of the ~30 NU JD-MBA's, probably at least 10 could get big law but go into business instead. I'm sure the situation is similar at Penn.

[HeavenWood]

Woo Penn.

[rayiner]

Class of 2011 graduate here who went to a T6. These numbers are positively shocking. These numbers are bad, but I find it hard to believe that half of my class didn't end up at a firm.

There are still ways to question the accuracy of this data. For one, how do they find out which Class of 2011s work at which firms? Websites? If that's the case, then many New York firms will be underreported, because most of the Class of 2011 isn't admitted to practice at this point and is therefore not on their firms' websites. There are exceptions, of course. Many firms list law clerks, but still many don't. S&C is one example, and the omission of S&C from these numbers would have an enormous effect on HLS, CLS, and NYU's numbers.

This wouldn't have a similar effect on other markets and other schools, as they conduct bar admission differently. All of my friends in Chicago biglaw are now admitted to practice, as are all my friends in CA. That would explain the comparative high ranking of Berkeley and Stanford.

Nevertheless, if these numbers are accurate, it just goes to show just how useless statements like, "well all my friends are employed" truly are. You never know until you see the actual numbers.

The NLJ250 member firms report this data. It's very accurate.

[r6_philly]

Woo Penn.

[HeavenWood]

Woo Penn.

Makes me feel a lot better about our prospects come Fall OCI lol.

[Antilles Haven]

Woo Penn.

Makes me feel a lot better about our prospects come Fall OCI lol.

You realize that you were a sophomore in college during the time that these numbers were directly relevant.

[HeavenWood]

Woo Penn.

Makes me feel a lot better about our prospects come Fall OCI lol.

You realize that you were a sophomore in college during the time that these numbers were directly relevant.

I do. I also think the economy has gotten better since then?

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Where is University of Indiana? So much for being at top 25 school, lol

I get the sense that you think being at a top 25 school entitles you to something other than seeing your school in the top half of a list promulgated by USNWR. If so, lol @ you.

[reformed calvinist]

Just when we thought the economy has gotten better...

Struggling with suppressing my urges to kick a snowman in his snowballs.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

Holy fuck! I expected it to be bad but not brutal like this. Luckily it seems that schools are doing much better now.

But this doesn't account for clerkships right? Which granted is probably a relatively low percent below the T6, but still.

[Old Gregg]

I do. I also think the economy has gotten better since then?

In hiring terms, yes, but not by much. Much can change in the next six months to the point where hiring is as bad or worse than in 2009. The global economy is in that precarious a position.

[booboo]

I do. I also think the economy has gotten better since then?

In hiring terms, yes, but not by much. Much can change in the next six months to the point where hiring is as bad or worse than in 2009. The global economy is in that precarious a position.

True but many firms cut below their needs and were faced with many problems because of it. If there is a reduction in class size, it will not be as significant as the one we saw previously.

Is NYU still a T14?

[r6_philly]

You realize that you were a sophomore in college during the time that these numbers were directly relevant.

I do. I also think the economy has gotten better since then?

And that the economy had very little impact on Penn's placement numbers. That is directly relevant.

2010: 50.8%
2011: 53.31%
2012: 56.93%

I don't troll for Penn, but you read into that yourself.

[HeavenWood]

You realize that you were a sophomore in college during the time that these numbers were directly relevant.

I do. I also think the economy has gotten better since then?

And that the economy had very little impact on Penn's placement numbers. That is directly relevant.

2010: 50.8%
2011: 53.31%
2012: 56.93%

I don't troll for Penn, but you read into that yourself.

That's why I'm not worried. I have no delusions of grandeur, but barring something crazy happening, I would think this year's yield would be somewhere within the 50-60% range.

[Anonymous User]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

[071816]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

huh?

[rayiner]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

Unlikely. The major drivers of the USNWR ranking in the T14 range are a) per capita spending on students; b) academic reputation among professors.

[r6_philly]

I would trade 2 spots in the rankings to have a job.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

Actually, numerous factors do go into the rankings, but ability to secure grads NLJ-250 positions is not one of them.

[Anonymous User]

Just when we thought the economy has gotten better...

Struggling with suppressing my urges to kick a snowman in his snowballs.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

Holy fuck! I expected it to be bad but not brutal like this. Luckily it seems that schools are doing much better now.

But this doesn't account for clerkships right? Which granted is probably a relatively low percent below the T6, but still.

Not true.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s-rankings

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

spoken like a true 0L

[Curious1]

This is pretty scary but there are firms outside the NLJ250, clerkships, Gov/PI. If you add those in the picture probably looks less terrifying, at least in the T-6.

[rad lulz]

This is pretty scary but there are firms outside the NLJ250, clerkships, Gov/PI. If you add those in the picture probably looks less terrifying, at least in the T-6.

Or, ya know, the numbers reflect hiring almost 3 years ago.

[Wholigan]

Could these numbers influence the USNWR rankings?

IMHO: HYS is a lock no matter what―never got the “S,” but I figure that is just the way it is, period.

The T-6 does occasionally change (i.e., Bloat freefalling 6-7-9). If the “Go To Schools” numbers were enormously imperative Penn and Cornell would already be T-6. Unlikely (as in impossible) that any school can jump into the T-6 from the 13th position. Penn at #7, seemingly has a legitimate shot.

The most stable of the current T-6 is [likely] Columbia, problem is that would mean 5 of the Top 6 are Ivy. . .hard to see that happening. Of course 5 of the 2011 top 6 “Go To” are Ivy.

I am sure it will be pointed out that numerous factors go into the rankings aside from a school securing its grads NLJ-250 positions.

Actually, numerous factors do go into the rankings, but ability to secure grads NLJ-250 positions is not one of them.

If this is true, then why do people who try to argue a school from one T14 tier is better than one from another for firm employment always get smacked down with "peer schools are peer"? This is three straight years for example, that NU is higher than Michigan on this list, and Penn is higher than NYU (and significantly higher for the last two.) If one's objective is just to get a biglaw job, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider schools like these two that have consistently outperformed USNWR over ones from a higher "tier" within the T14.