A guide to the mechanics of OCI, callbacks, etc. Forum

[Anonymous User]

Having gone through the process, I will note that (at least at UVA), it seems like firms do practice some form of yield protection. My experience was as a student around the top 15%, looking at NY. Two observations:

1. A partner, during a screening interview, told me that I would hear from the hiring partner for a callback. This was a V50 firm whose callback GPA was below mine, but that I would have liked. I did not hear from the hiring partner, while others did. After a week, I emailed my screening interviewer, and basically said I was disappointed not to have heard, but that I was still interested. Later that day, the hiring partner emailed me, cc-ing the screening interviewer, and said that if I was truly interested in a callback, to contact them and set one up. I was, honestly, so I did. I got an offer.

2. Here is a chart of all of my screeners/callbacks, with results and with firm names deleted. I updated this as I went through the process. I had a number of good interviews with some of the firms towards the bottom, but struck out with them completely. The firms are not ranked completely by Vault ranking, though it is correlated fairly well with Vault/Chambers combination, plus my personal preferences. I would not say there was absolutely any difference in my interest level in the screener.

[stratocophic]

Having gone through the process, I will note that (at least at UVA), it seems like firms do practice some form of yield protection. My experience was as a student around the top 15%, looking at NY. Two observations:

1. A partner, during a screening interview, told me that I would hear from the hiring partner for a callback. This was a V50 firm whose callback GPA was below mine, but that I would have liked. I did not hear from the hiring partner, while others did. After a week, I emailed my screening interviewer, and basically said I was disappointed not to have heard, but that I was still interested. Later that day, the hiring partner emailed me, cc-ing the screening interviewer, and said that if I was truly interested in a callback, to contact them and set one up. I was, honestly, so I did. I got an offer.

2. Here is a chart of all of my screeners/callbacks, with results and with firm names deleted. I updated this as I went through the process. I had a number of good interviews with some of the firms towards the bottom, but struck out with them completely. The firms are not ranked completely by Vault ranking, though it is correlated fairly well with Vault/Chambers combination, plus my personal preferences. I would not say there was absolutely any difference in my interest level in the screener.

Methinks maybe it's just that you aren't quite as good at interviewing as youthinks you are. One anomalous experience does not a trend make.

[Anonymous User]

Methinks maybe it's just that you aren't quite as good at interviewing as youthinks you are. One anomalous experience does not a trend make.

I never said I was any good at interviewing -- I'm fully aware I underperformed my numbers. That doesn't explain my relative success in the V20 and then whiffing on the Seward & Kissels and Brown Rudnicks of the world. Though to be sure, no doubt part of it is the class size differences.

There is no other explanation I can think of for my first anecdote other than yield protection.

Edit: the point of my post was for future students, and to note that there's no such thing as a "safety firm." When you get a callback GPA list from your CSO, it's a mistake to assume you will easily get callbacks if you apply to firms whose GPA median is far below yours. There's a reason some firms have rather low callback GPAs -- because they call back mostly those with closer-to-median GPAs. The point is that if you're at MVP or wherever, 10%-20%, but your top choice is something like Brown Rudnick NY, you'd better have a damned good reason to explain to them why you want to go there.

[Bronte]

Some firms do yield protect, especially Chicago firms. I experienced it and watched others with similar numbers and stellar track records experience it. But the practice is nowhere near as systematic as it is with law school admissions.

[JamMasterJ]

I'm an 0L and don't have any reason for this other than curiosity and future reference, but is there any location where one can look up the gpa cutoffs for different firms by school or school rank or whatever?

Also, is there a good source of firm profiles that I could look at (besides the ones you have to pay for on Vault or the ones on TLS)?

[Bronte]

I'm an 0L and don't have any reason for this other than curiosity and future reference, but is there any location where one can look up the gpa cutoffs for different firms by school or school rank or whatever?

Also, is there a good source of firm profiles that I could look at (besides the ones you have to pay for on Vault or the ones on TLS)?

This is a good source for firm profiles: http://www.chambers-associate.com/. As for GPA cutoffs, firms do not openly admit to GPA cutoffs, although they often have internal "guidelines" for particular schools. These are not widely known. Instead, most career services offices disseminate documents with historical GPA data to their students the summer before OCI.

[JamMasterJ]

I'm an 0L and don't have any reason for this other than curiosity and future reference, but is there any location where one can look up the gpa cutoffs for different firms by school or school rank or whatever?

Also, is there a good source of firm profiles that I could look at (besides the ones you have to pay for on Vault or the ones on TLS)?

This is a good source for firm profiles: http://www.chambers-associate.com/. As for GPA cutoffs, firms do not openly admit to GPA cutoffs, although they often have internal "guidelines" for particular schools. These are not widely known. Instead, most career services offices disseminate documents with historical GPA data to their students the summer before OCI.

I assumed this would be the response. Thanks for the help

[ilovesf]

This is really helpful, thanks! I'm most concerned right now with the first step - bidding strategy and thinking of where to apply. I'm probably ranked right at 9-11%. A lot of big firms have a cut-off of 10%. Should I be putting them first in my list since they are kind of reaches, and put ones where the cut-off is 20-25% lower in my bidding rank? I'm really not sure how to go about organizing this list, and I feel like some other people might be feeling the same way. Thanks!

[5ky]

This is really helpful, thanks! I'm most concerned right now with the first step - bidding strategy and thinking of where to apply. I'm probably ranked right at 9-11%. A lot of big firms have a cut-off of 10%. Should I be putting them first in my list since they are kind of reaches, and put ones where the cut-off is 20-25% lower in my bidding rank? I'm really not sure how to go about organizing this list, and I feel like some other people might be feeling the same way. Thanks!

Do not do not do not do not listen to firm cut-offs.

[cinephile]

This is really helpful, thanks! I'm most concerned right now with the first step - bidding strategy and thinking of where to apply. I'm probably ranked right at 9-11%. A lot of big firms have a cut-off of 10%. Should I be putting them first in my list since they are kind of reaches, and put ones where the cut-off is 20-25% lower in my bidding rank? I'm really not sure how to go about organizing this list, and I feel like some other people might be feeling the same way. Thanks!

Do not do not do not do not listen to firm cut-offs.

What do you mean? Aim higher? Lower? Disregard completely?

[jarofsoup]

awesome.

[JusticeHarlan]

This is really helpful, thanks! I'm most concerned right now with the first step - bidding strategy and thinking of where to apply. I'm probably ranked right at 9-11%. A lot of big firms have a cut-off of 10%. Should I be putting them first in my list since they are kind of reaches, and put ones where the cut-off is 20-25% lower in my bidding rank? I'm really not sure how to go about organizing this list, and I feel like some other people might be feeling the same way. Thanks!

Do not do not do not do not listen to firm cut-offs.

What do you mean? Aim higher? Lower? Disregard completely?

Disregard completely.

[clint4law]

thanks

[727813]

Would someone please explain the process of "bidding"? Is that a literal auction on how much a firm has to pay you? Or is this a fancy way of saying you are applying to firms? TIA.

[thesealocust]

Would someone please explain the process of "bidding"? Is that a literal auction on how much a firm has to pay you? Or is this a fancy way of saying you are applying to firms? TIA.

It's a process of obtaining interviews with firms at on campus interview programs for rising 2nd year law students.

If you don't understand something that fundamental, you probably need a general over view of law school (book like Law School Confidential) or to talk to your school's career services department. This forum and thread are dedicated to people who are either headed into or already invested in the process. No offense intended, just trying to point you in the right direction.

[727813]

Would someone please explain the process of "bidding"? Is that a literal auction on how much a firm has to pay you? Or is this a fancy way of saying you are applying to firms? TIA.

It's a process of obtaining interviews with firms at on campus interview programs for rising 2nd year law students.

If you don't understand something that fundamental, you probably need a general over view of law school (book like Law School Confidential) or to talk to your school's career services department. This forum and thread are dedicated to people who are either headed into or already invested in the process. No offense intended, just trying to point you in the right direction.

Got it. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

I had a callback interview with a small firm the first week in September. Regretfully, I did not ask when I could expect a determination from the firm during the interview. Last week I emailed the partner I interviewed with an updated resume (I made a journal) and an expression of my continued interest in the firm. I still have no response from the firm.

What should I do? I thought my updated resume would prompt some kind of indication as to where I stand, but should I ask a bit more directly where I stand in the process?

[Danger Zone]

This be stressful.

[Anonymous User]

Is it necessary to send a letter accepting an offer for a 2L SA or is a phone call sufficient?

[JusticeHarlan]

Is it necessary to send a letter accepting an offer for a 2L SA or is a phone call sufficient?

Phone call is sufficient.

[Anonymous User]

What's the etiquette re back-to-back screeners? Kosher to politely leave Firm 1 screener early, or better to apologize to Firm 2 screener when arriving late?

[Anonymous User]

Had OCI day 1 today, this thread was extremely helpful with preparation, and also extremely helpful in assuring me that all of my fears/anxieties were normal lol. Great post.

[Anonymous User]

what number of callbacks is usual for most students when targeting one city? If you have more than let's say 8 callbacks, should you cancel some even though you're in the city already?

[JusticeHarlan]

what number of callbacks is usual for most students when targeting one city? If you have more than let's say 8 callbacks, should you cancel some even though you're in the city already?

Never cancel callbacks until you have an offer.

[Danger Zone]

what number of callbacks is usual for most students when targeting one city? If you have more than let's say 8 callbacks, should you cancel some even though you're in the city already?

Absolutely not. After doing 8 CBs, I came out with one offer, and I was damn fortunate to have it. People with more CBs have struck out completely before.