Students who work hard and smart during 1L yet don't do well Forum

[DerrickRose]

... and there's always something in the test that wasn't it the class materials.

Either your professors are douchebags or you haven't been studying that hard.

I don't mean broad concepts or specific facts necessary to answer a question, but every law school exam is going to have a "bridge what you know to this new thing" portion. At least all of mine did.

[MrKappus]

imo not arbitrary. every person i know who got top grades at geedub worked for it. worked hard. see i thought i worked hard...i read all the e&es, hornbooks, etc, spent late nights when necessary - but there were people who literally spent every waking hour studying. i chose to go to the gym and bar review and other things and got what i deserved. people who put in the time and effort got what they rightly deserved too.

rofl. I got better grades than many people I know who studied harder, I know many people with grades as good or better than me who studied less. That's not it at all.

He has his anecdote, you have yours.

[prezidentv8]

imo not arbitrary. every person i know who got top grades at geedub worked for it. worked hard. see i thought i worked hard...i read all the e&es, hornbooks, etc, spent late nights when necessary - but there were people who literally spent every waking hour studying. i chose to go to the gym and bar review and other things and got what i deserved. people who put in the time and effort got what they rightly deserved too.

rofl. I got better grades than many people I know who studied harder, I know many people with grades as good or better than me who studied less. That's not it at all.

He has his anecdote, you have yours.

--ImageRemoved--

Edit: But seriously, if it's not luck, then at least a big part of grading is innate law school testing ability.

[Tenth Usher]

And would you say you studied "smart" during you first semester?

I definitely did not. I put in a lot of hours during my first semester and ended up with around a 3.3 (roughly median at NYU). I changed my strategy and ended up with a 4.1. As I did not work harder and did not become smarter during the second semester, I can only attribute my success to working smarter.

Can you expand upon this? Anything beyond focusing on exam-taking and tailoring your approach for different classes/profs?

[Geist13]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

[270910]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

It's the worst part of law school. Having lived through it, I have nothing comforting to add except this: drinking helps.

[mpasi]

The ones playing Farmville during lectures don't fare any better, do they?

[Geist13]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

It's the worst part of law school. Having lived through it, I have nothing comforting to add except this: drinking helps.

But not drinking as much was part of my fool proof plan for success!

[MrKappus]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

The fear's unnecessary. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I'm top 5% at a T30. It's not rocket science. I just put in 8-12 hours/day (including class), started my outlines by Halloween/St. Pats, did 2-5 PT's/class (+ post mortems), avoided the interwebz in class, and got a good night's sleep before The Test. Seriously. It's law. It's not fluid dynamics or engins. Everyone in this thread needs to relax. I feel like I'm back at summer camp and the 8th graders are telling ghost stories to the 4th graders.

Taking Sundays off helped. So did scotch.

[prezidentv8]

The ones playing Farmville during lectures don't fare any better, do they?

1. Go to class
2. Work on your fantasy football team
3. ???
4. Profit!

[prezidentv8]

And this:

It's law. It's not fluid dynamics or engins. Everyone in this thread needs to relax. I feel like I'm back at summer camp and the 8th graders are telling ghost stories to the 4th graders.

Taking Sundays off helped. So did scotch.

I drink more now than I did before law school. Is that bad??

[dood]

...

[270910]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

The fear's unnecessary. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I'm top 5% at a T30. It's not rocket science. I just put in 8-12 hours/day (including class), started my outlines by Halloween/St. Pats, did 2-5 PT's/class (+ post mortems), avoided the interwebz in class, and got a good night's sleep before The Test. Seriously. It's law. It's not fluid dynamics or engins. Everyone in this thread needs to relax. I feel like I'm back at summer camp and the 8th graders are telling ghost stories to the 4th graders.

Taking Sundays off helped. So did scotch.

Right - but what about all the people who worked hard and didn't do as well as you?

I think the scary thing isn't how much work it will be or how hard it will be, it's how many people try and 'fail' (however you define that) anyway.

[prelaw87]

.....

[DerrickRose]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

You can only do what you can do. There's only 24 hours in a day.

Trust me, you don't walk out of a law school final thinking "If only I had briefed my cases a LITTLE more thoroughly...". You walk out knowing that that was all you had to give.

A little "the world needs ditch-diggers too" fatalism is the right attitude to have. Think about it, these BigLaw giants you 0L's all aspire to be, absolutely work their asses off for their entire careers, never letting a spare moment go by, a youth destroying, marriage wrecking, children neglecting inferno through their adult lives, and these are the people that are doing better than you on law school exams. If you would have to do more in 1L to catch up, imagine what you'd have to do for the 50 years after.

I worked harder in 1L than I have doing anything else I've ever done with my life. (damning by faint praise in my case, but still) Wherever that gets me, I'll know I earned it.

[DerrickRose]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

Everyone in this thread needs to relax. I feel like I'm back at summer camp and the 8th graders are telling ghost stories to the 4th graders.

Taking Sundays off helped. So did scotch.

This. 1L is neither as hard as people say it is, nor hard in the same way.

[prezidentv8]

D.R., your posts continue to be impressively accurate and realistic. Good stuff once again.

[MrKappus]

A little "the world needs ditch-diggers too" fatalism is the right attitude to have. Think about it, these BigLaw giants you 0L's all aspire to be, absolutely work their asses off for their entire careers, never letting a spare moment go by, a youth destroying, marriage wrecking, children neglecting inferno through their adult lives, and these are the people that are doing better than you are law school exams. If you would have to do more in 1L to catch up, imagine what you'd have to do for the 50 years after.

I have to say, I'm thinking more and more along these lines lately, probably because I'm writing all these cover letters for off-campus job fairs and combing through the upcoming OCI lists (though that doesn't take as long as it used to ). I read on ATL today about that MP at LLBL that died of a heart attack in his office in his early 60's and I got this weird, "flash forward" feeling about what I would be getting myself into (and setting myself up for) in the next 6 weeks.

Fortunately this is TLS and someone will point out that I'm at a T30 and don't have to worry about biglaw anyway.

[Talon]

Nothing I've read on this website has frightened me more than this thread.

You shouldn't be frightened. The people who got poor 1L grades simply never learned how to properly write an exam answer. I traded practice exam answers with several people who I know (or suspect) did poorly, and their answers consisted of nothing but conclusory statements about issues that someone could write several paragraphs of analysis about. Learning how to write a good exam answer requires a lot of work - it took me many, many practice exams before I could rival the model answers - but everyone is capable of reaching that point. Once you've learned how to take an exam, you have nothing to worry about. This isn't at all like the LSAT - I know of no one who learned how to write strong answers to practice exams and still failed to do well on the actual exams.

[Anonymous User]

Unless you're just stupid, I don't think it's possible to work smart and hard and yet do poorly. Working smart implies you've figured out how to "game" law school exams. In conjunction with working hard, you're basically talking about maxing out your potential. In my opinion, the vast majority of students are not operating anywhere close to this level. Instead, they fail to study strategically and often get carried away with their intellectual curiosity

This seems very accurate.

I'll throw in the caveat that I know many people were led to the stream of studying intelligently but did not drink. They read GTM once, or they took some practice exams, but never really realized the nature of the exam game or extracted themselves from trying to memorize the intricate factual details of cases.

The whole point of this thread is for people who to talk about their own personal experiences, not concoct B.S. theories about what other people must have done wrong (like just being stupid). It's an important distinction, because as someone that didn't do well the 1st semester I can tell you I didn't "get carried away with [my] intellectual curiosity," nor did I just try to memorize all the facts of all the cases.

If you didn't live it yourself, please don't make up stories about people that did.

And would you say you studied "smart" during you first semester?

I definitely did not. I put in a lot of hours during my first semester and ended up with around a 3.3 (roughly median at NYU). I changed my strategy and ended up with a 4.1. As I did not work harder and did not become smarter during the second semester, I can only attribute my success to working smarter.

Yes, I would say I worked "smart" my 1st semester. I followed all the advice I read online, had read GTM, and prepped for each prof the way you're supposed to. I studied smart, and hard, and didn't do well 1st semester.

If you don't think you studied smart the 1st semester than you shouldn't be answering OP's question, and you shouldn't assume that whatever problems you had applied to other people that also didn't do well 1st semester.

[edcrane]

Yes, I would say I worked "smart" my 1st semester. I followed all the advice I read online, had read GTM, and prepped for each prof the way you're supposed to. I studied smart, and hard, and didn't do well 1st semester.

Following advice online =/= studying smart. I did precisely that (attempted to replicate the "success in LS" methodology) and found that it simply did not work for me. In any event, what do you think explains your subsequent success? Luck?

[Anonymous User]

brah, i aced fluid dynamics and am at median after 1L.

Same. A+ in that class, as well as differential equations, quantum mechanics, crystal field theory, etc at a good state school. Law school? Bottom third in law school. And I didn't study in college much at all.

Although, at least at my school, the hardcore engineering and science types generally don't do all that well.

[3ThrowAway99]

"a deep understanding of how to get points on a law school exam"

----------------
What is the best way of grasping this (recommended materials etc)?

[MrKappus]

brah, i aced fluid dynamics and am at median after 1L.

Maybe you didn't work very hard in LS? I don't know. I'm not a ouiji board. Smarts are often sufficient for high grades in applied sciences. Smarts are rarely sufficient for good grades in LS. IMO, the statistical breakdown of top 5% might look something like this:
Smarts: 10%
Smarts + Work: 80%
Work: 10%

/rampant speculation

[Anonymous User]

Yes, I would say I worked "smart" my 1st semester. I followed all the advice I read online, had read GTM, and prepped for each prof the way you're supposed to. I studied smart, and hard, and didn't do well 1st semester.

Following advice online =/= studying smart. I did precisely that (attempted to replicate the "success in LS" methodology) and found that it simply did not work for me. In any event, what do you think explains your subsequent success? Luck?

Well, shit, if your definition of studying smart is getting straight A's, then yeah, obviously anyone that doesn't do well isn't studying smart. Of course, that's ridiculous.

As OP asked it, and everyone understands it, following the TLS advice on how to get great grades is supposed to equal studying smart. Not wasting time prepping every case and not memorizing all the facts is the advice for smart studying. Of course, someone did both of those things and still got A's, but that doesn't change the advice.

For me, it was mostly a combination of stressing out and over thinking the questions on exam day. Even with timed practice exams it wasn't something I ran into until the real exams hit. It was "luck," in so far as it wasn't a problem I could have diagnosed without actually taking real law school exams.