I Feel Like Just Giving Up Forum

[rando]

What I'd do is buy myself some time with a clerkship -- anywhere --.

Fed. Circuit. All about IP/engineering background and are not quite so rigorous with regard to grades/rank. Your background is money and I bet you would get some nibbles. Seriously. Get on it now.

[094320]

..

[Anonymous User]

What I'd do is buy myself some time with a clerkship -- anywhere --.

Fed. Circuit. All about IP/engineering background and are not quite so rigorous with regard to grades/rank. Your background is money and I bet you would get some nibbles. Seriously. Get on it now.

TITCR. The Fed Cir does nothing but patent appeals plus its in Washington which has a high cost of living on a government salary, so not that many people want to clerk there anyway, and with your engineering background you'll way ahead of the game. Just research all the judges first and apply to them in your order of preference. I mean you don't want to get stuck clerking for Lourie if you prefer Dyk or vice versa, you know?

[Patriot1208]

I feel like giving up and I haven't even taken the LSAT yet....

[olderlawyer]

I understand how depressing this job market is. I am watching my son, who is at a T14, deal with it. I am a lawyer and have some friends who have helped him get a 1L job but there were moments when it didn't look promising. That having been said, I want you to remember that lawyers are just people, not monoliths, and therefore you will have to use your people skills to get a job. This will require contacts, contacts, contacts. OCI is really not the answer for that many people even though it may have seemed to be five years ago. All that one gets through OCI is a job in a big firm, where they may not like you after you walk in the door the first day you're an associate. That isn't much better than being unemployed, because you're treated as a commodity and thrown out when past your expiration date.

I recommend breaking the task into daily bites, sending out, say, ten fairly personalized letters every day of the week (70 per week will make you plenty of contacts quickly), and sending them to every human being who has a law office in your target geographic locations, hopefully ones with which you can concoct a connection of some sort. Start with lawyers who graduated from your UG school and your law school but do not skip ANY. Ask for input if no jobs are available. Ask for a one- or two-week unpaid internship over a holiday period. JUST PAPER THE TOWNS you might want to work in.

You'd be amazed how hitting the right lawyer on the right day will help you with networking. I know plenty of lawyers and have lots of good ideas on who might be hiring where I live, and I'm in a small office. People like to help people--it makes them feel good. Give some lawyers a chance to help you. In DC, for instance, some of the individual lawyers are in-house almost with corporations and although they may appear to be solo practitioners they may have needs or contacts you can't imagine.

It's a numbers game and you must make the numbers work for you. The higher the number of contacts, the better your odds.

I wish you much luck and please don't get discouraged right now. You're young and have lots going for you and you WILL find a job.

[rayiner]

between posts like this, reading gtm and leews, i am scared shitless in pretty much all my waking hours. man.

You really should be.

[romothesavior]

Thanks, olderlawyer. One of the most inspiring posts I've read on TLS. Thank you sir, and good luck to your son.

[edgarderby]

From personal experience, that letter writing approach only results in jobs if you are in the upper middle class. It can't hurt, but everyone I know that had that work out had a dad or someone else that was a recognizable name. My dad works at a gas station; my networking has resulted in many free lunches and not a single interview. Cso told me I seem to have contacted more people than anyone they have encountered. No one wants to help or the sake of charity.

Hope this helps.

[romothesavior]

I am watching my son, who is at a T14, deal with it. I am a lawyer and have some friends who have helped him get a 1L job but there were moments when it didn't look promising.

Also, adopt me?

[TTT-LS]

.

[olderlawyer]

From personal experience, that letter writing approach only results in jobs if you are in the upper middle class. It can't hurt, but everyone I know that had that work out had a dad or someone else that was a recognizable name. My dad works at a gas station; my networking has resulted in many free lunches and not a single interview. Cso told me I seem to have contacted more people than anyone they have encountered. No one wants to help or the sake of charity.

Hope this helps.

You could be right that it is better with a recognizable name, but that wasn't the experience I had myself many moons ago when I was a nobody. I wrote tons of letters, starting with, as I suggest, alumni of my UG school, and by the third week of 70 per week I was getting responses. Some of the responses were just "nice resume but we don't need anyone" but that opened the avenue of communication if it was from a real, living lawyer and not just a recruitment coordinator. I think that firms large enough to have a staffer doing recruitment are going to be harder to crack using this approach. I am not suggesting that this is easy nor that it results in a perfect job but I do think that it begins the networking process. And, as I say, lawyers are people. If you're not "upper middle class" (which I wasn't when I was looking long ago) people might want to help you--tell them you've worked your way through school, love law, and are dying to prove what you've done and learned is going to make a difference. Follow up, too! And I'm glad I've inspired someone here--I wish I COULD adopt some of you. I am depressed about the overall economy but I am not depressed about the possibilities for individuals who are committed to succeeding.

[rayiner]

^^^

I think sending out letters is definitely TCR. It costs you nothing but time, and if you're unemployed, your time is free! The odds might not be good, but you can't go down without a fight.

That being said, I'd also point out that the country is in a pretty different place now than it was 20 years ago. My dad started out in the public health field in the '70s. He was telling me a few years ago (before the recession) that it's pretty much impossible for young people to get into his field these days. He got in with an BA/MA from a university in a third-world country, and these days he is flooded with resumes of people with degrees from really good schools for extremely entry-level work.

This is a story that is true throughout the economy and it's a systemic thing, not just the product of the financial collapse, although that has exposed it fully. There is and always will be space for the most entrerpeneural of people to improve their quality of life, but the percentage of people that "the most" encompasses narrows considerably in the absence of growth.

[dbt]

There are avenues to legal employment other than OCI, no? I'm a 0L so I'm sure I am like, the last person you want advice from, but after browsing through a bit of Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams, there seems to be a number of different ways you can go about seeking employment, depending on where you are, your grades, and what you want to do. No doubt some of it sounds a little far fetched, even for a naive 0L, but some of it seemed like good advice and, frankly, worth doing in light of how much you have invested in law school and how tough the economy is right now.

I lol'd

[let/them/eat/cake]

between posts like this, reading gtm and leews, i am scared shitless in pretty much all my waking hours. man.

you are freaking out. man.

[trialjunky]

let/me/eat/cake...pleeeeease!

[BobSacamano]

With my grades, OCI is a possibility but far from a guarantee, and I really want government anyways, so I'm looking to network pretty hard. Yesterday I found the perfect networking opportunity on Lexis: works in my city, went to my tiny undergrad that is nowhere near where I live now, and works for an interesting government agency. I look for the guy's e-mail address, because Lexis doesn't list it. I Google his name and...

...he died five years ago. No joke. Back to the drawing board I go.

[romothesavior]

between posts like this, reading gtm and leews, i am scared shitless in pretty much all my waking hours. man.

you are freaking out. man.

I caught this movie reference and lol'd.

[uclabruins]

Okay you're right. This ignorant 0L will GTFO.

But I still say OP still has doors open, especially if she passes the patent bar.

dude, employers EXPECT OP to PASS the patent exam. What really matters is that they know OP's eligibility to TAKE the patent exam, so nothing changes after the OP passes. Some magical patent law door doesn't immediately swing open when you pass.

This is completely true. The patent bar is just a bunch of questions about the procedures of the US Patent and Trademark Office. Strictly speaking, a patent litigation attorney doesn't even need to pass it. Even when firms want you to pass the patent bar, they usually don't really care as long as you pass it within a year or two after joining as a full-time associate (someone else can sign off on the patent prosecution work you do before the Patent Office in the meantime). The only major benefit of taking the test as a student is that you don't have to be studying for it while working lawyer hours. Of course it makes a candidate slightly more attractive, but the point is that it won't open any doors that weren't there before.

OP, not sure if this was asked before but what markets have you been focusing on? Probably a bit late now, but have you tried the local IP job fairs like the SFIPLA job fair or the SIPJF?

[rbgrocio]

From personal experience, that letter writing approach only results in jobs if you are in the upper middle class. It can't hurt, but everyone I know that had that work out had a dad or someone else that was a recognizable name. My dad works at a gas station; my networking has resulted in many free lunches and not a single interview. Cso told me I seem to have contacted more people than anyone they have encountered. No one wants to help or the sake of charity.

Hope this helps.

You could be right that it is better with a recognizable name, but that wasn't the experience I had myself many moons ago when I was a nobody. I wrote tons of letters, starting with, as I suggest, alumni of my UG school, and by the third week of 70 per week I was getting responses. Some of the responses were just "nice resume but we don't need anyone" but that opened the avenue of communication if it was from a real, living lawyer and not just a recruitment coordinator. I think that firms large enough to have a staffer doing recruitment are going to be harder to crack using this approach. I am not suggesting that this is easy nor that it results in a perfect job but I do think that it begins the networking process. And, as I say, lawyers are people. If you're not "upper middle class" (which I wasn't when I was looking long ago) people might want to help you--tell them you've worked your way through school, love law, and are dying to prove what you've done and learned is going to make a difference. Follow up, too! And I'm glad I've inspired someone here--I wish I COULD adopt some of you. I am depressed about the overall economy but I am not depressed about the possibilities for individuals who are committed to succeeding.

I took a more informal approach, but I grabbed the yellow pages and started calling everyone in town.

[rando]

What I'd do is buy myself some time with a clerkship -- anywhere --.

Fed. Circuit. All about IP/engineering background and are not quite so rigorous with regard to grades/rank. Your background is money and I bet you would get some nibbles. Seriously. Get on it now.

TITCR. The Fed Cir does nothing but patent appeals plus its in Washington which has a high cost of living on a government salary, so not that many people want to clerk there anyway, and with your engineering background you'll way ahead of the game. Just research all the judges first and apply to them in your order of preference. I mean you don't want to get stuck clerking for Lourie if you prefer Dyk or vice versa, you know?

Seriously, what were you thinking, Rando? Fed. Cir. clerkships are insanely competitive. Sure, they don't require the same grades as, say, a D.C. Cir. clerkship, but the difference is not huge--perhaps a 3.95 instead of a 4.0. OP is median from a T14, without law review, and thus has no shot whatsoever at any COA clerkship, period. Sure, there's a longshot chance at some D. Ct. or specialty court clerkships, but even those are really, really unlikely. Same for State Supreme Coruts. Others have already said it repeatedly in this thread, but I'll join the chorus: if you don't know what you're talking about or you feel the need to add the 0L disclaimer, just don't post.

uhhhh. fail.

not a 0l. not ignorant. actually going through clerkship process now. actually had lunch with a prof who clerked on fed. cir. last week.

Though I think i failed the RC on OP not being on LR, the rest of your diatribe is absurd.

TLS can be so f'ing ridiculous. A mod lambasted me the other day for telling someone with shitty grades and no LR not to waste time applying to fed. clerkships because I was self-interested. Now, pointing out the fact that someone from a good school with an IP background should take a shot at Fed. Cir. is 0L?

get out of your own ass and stop trying to act like you are gods gift to clerkships. We get it, you got a COA spot. Congrats. So do dozens of other people I know and they don't act like they know everything about the clerkship crapshoot.

End rant.

[JCooper36]

Can't you just work for yourself? Or do you have to work for someone else first; like CPA's.