The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Zindras]

Is anyone a veteran who might consider a paralegal position in D.C. (federal government)? If so, please PM me.

[BlueLotus]

I'm applying to anything and everything at this point. Can't be choosy ITE.

You do know that you get deployed in JAG? Like, Iraq?[/quote]

yes i was aware, but moot point b/c of my mental health issues.

[Anonymous User]

If I was only on the moot court team for one year do I have to state the years, or can I just leave it as "National Moot Court Team" without specifying dates.

[drs36]

No need to specify dates. "National Moot Court Team" is fine.

[LeDique]

If I was only on the moot court team for one year do I have to state the years, or can I just leave it as "National Moot Court Team" without specifying dates.

Yup, mine just looks like:

LAW SCHOOL, JD 2014
GPA/Rank
Honors: ---
Activities: National Moot Court Team

[Anonymous User]

What's up with Paul Hastings's Chicago office? I've applied for two jobs there, been referred by people who know partners and they won't even respond to an email (or even send me a rejection.)

[snowpeach06]

I went on an interview the other day. I think the HR lady loved me, but the guy who would be my boss was ambivalent. Still, he e-mailed me a follow up question (to which I wrote a book). Today when I sent thank you notes, the HR lady responded first with an email saying it was great to meet me and she'll decide next week. Then she said "I may contact references of the top 2-3 candidates next week (she also told me she was only interviewing four total during the interview). Do your references know I may contact them?" How do I tell references they MAY be contacted? Especially those I haven't spoken to in years?

[BlueLotus]

Set up a coffee date with an Assistant Attorney General. Anyone know what Mass. AG is looking for?

[TheFutureLawyer]

How do I tell references they MAY be contacted? Especially those I haven't spoken to in years?

Send them an email telling them what you've been up to and that they may be contacted?

Did that really need to be said?

[Anonymous User]

Was just told: I have too much of a self-starter attitude. I was too self-confident. I was too entrepreneurial. A few partners were afraid that I wouldn't be willing to be a low-level minion for a few years.

So I guess I belong here now...


Does it get any better the day after the no-offer call?

Update from another partner: I was too "pushy"

Bad news: I head this from someone who called my summer firm for a reference so idk how great my chances are anywhere if they are going to hear that when they call.

Good news: Firm #2 thought the attitude this reference described would fit in much better at his firm. Possible interview if spot opens up.

[crumpetsandtea]

I went on an interview the other day. I think the HR lady loved me, but the guy who would be my boss was ambivalent. Still, he e-mailed me a follow up question (to which I wrote a book). Today when I sent thank you notes, the HR lady responded first with an email saying it was great to meet me and she'll decide next week. Then she said "I may contact references of the top 2-3 candidates next week (she also told me she was only interviewing four total during the interview). Do your references know I may contact them?" How do I tell references they MAY be contacted? Especially those I haven't spoken to in years?

I assume you spoke to them to ask to use their names as references for your job search? If not...welp, now would be the time to retroactively ask lol. As for the actual email, I like to do something like this -

Dear [Name]:

[Small pleasantries - hope your summer went well, etc]! I wanted to let you know that I am currently applying for [broad description of jobs I'm applying for, ie 'government honors program positions,' 'associate positions with firms in X area,' etc etc]. I would like to use you as a reference, which might result in them contacting you to discuss my time at [past job]. They will likely ask about [things relevant to the position you are applying for]. Please let me know if this is alright with you. I really enjoyed my time with [X company] and would really appreciate your help with my job search.

Thank you,

I just wrote this off the top of my head so it's just a shitty example, and normally when I write these letters it's before I apply, not after. You might want to tweak it as necessary.

[LeDique]

May want to edit your name out there, crumps

[crumpetsandtea]

Damn thanks dique (and goden who PMed me). Apparently it's such second nature for me to sign my name that I didn't even realize I did it. HAH.

[Anonymous User]

There are a lot of terrible immigration practitioners out there. If you get an offer, make sure to talk to some of the associates working at the firm before you commit to the position.

Agreed. This is the scary part of looking for immigration jobs Is your position at the same firm where you volunteered?

OP Here.

I did not do any volunteer work, although I highly recommend it. I replied to a listing for an internship, but asked that they consider me for an associate position. This is the second time I have successfully tried this approach.

[Anonymous User]

There are a lot of terrible immigration practitioners out there. If you get an offer, make sure to talk to some of the associates working at the firm before you commit to the position.

Agreed. This is the scary part of looking for immigration jobs Is your position at the same firm where you volunteered?

terrible in terms of what? hours and work-life balance?

OP Here.

Terrible in the sense that there are a lot of unethical immigration attorneys out there. It's not uncommon to find an immigration attorney that regularly lies to clients, deceives judges, and forces associates to go to master hearings and individual hearings unprepared. Just be careful - Immigration law is a wonderful practice area, there are just a lot of filthy practitioners that give immigration attorneys a bad rep.

[Anonymous User]

2014 grad here; been networking since 1L year in my home (small) market. Anyone else notice the following pattern?

Older attorneys have a wealth of experiences to share, which are interesting, but they have no idea how difficult the market is for a new lawyer. And they have no real or practical advice for job-searching. Younger attorneys (2009 and beyond) will share contacts with you, but they're the same contacts you already have. And they like to fish for resumes, which I think is because they want to see what the competition is, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Just tired of the networking game...

[Stanford4Me]

2014 grad here; been networking since 1L year in my home (small) market. Anyone else notice the following pattern?

Older attorneys have a wealth of experiences to share, which are interesting, but they have no idea how difficult the market is for a new lawyer. And they have no real or practical advice for job-searching. Younger attorneys (2009 and beyond) will share contacts with you, but they're the same contacts you already have. And they like to fish for resumes, which I think is because they want to see what the competition is, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Just tired of the networking game...

I remember when I got my first lunch with a senior partner (family friend) in the practice area I was interested in, in the market I wanted to work in. I was super excited, but when I met with him it was clear he didn't quite understand hiring trends in the new market. He wasn't much help and, despite his senior position in the firm (and him being impressed with my credentials), wasn't really able to do much in the way of helping me out.

I still keep in contact with him, just as a mentor, but yeah I definitely felt the sentiment you're currently feeling. All I can say is just keep trucking--I'm sure you're tired of hearing that, but it pays off in the end.

[Anonymous User]

2014 grad here; been networking since 1L year in my home (small) market. Anyone else notice the following pattern?

Older attorneys have a wealth of experiences to share, which are interesting, but they have no idea how difficult the market is for a new lawyer. And they have no real or practical advice for job-searching. Younger attorneys (2009 and beyond) will share contacts with you, but they're the same contacts you already have. And they like to fish for resumes, which I think is because they want to see what the competition is, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Just tired of the networking game...

When you say they have no "practical advice" for job-searching that could be because there isn't really much advice beyond what you probably already know. Get involved in the legal community, meet people, volunteer, blah blah. There aren't really any secret tricks to finding/landing a job.

[gdane]

Set up a coffee date with an Assistant Attorney General. Anyone know what Mass. AG is looking for?

Grades, lots of trial experience, Massachusetts ties, and a clear interest in prosecution/public interest work.

[Pokemon]

2014 grad here; been networking since 1L year in my home (small) market. Anyone else notice the following pattern?

Older attorneys have a wealth of experiences to share, which are interesting, but they have no idea how difficult the market is for a new lawyer. And they have no real or practical advice for job-searching. Younger attorneys (2009 and beyond) will share contacts with you, but they're the same contacts you already have. And they like to fish for resumes, which I think is because they want to see what the competition is, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Just tired of the networking game...

I remember when I got my first lunch with a senior partner (family friend) in the practice area I was interested in, in the market I wanted to work in. I was super excited, but when I met with him it was clear he didn't quite understand hiring trends in the new market. He wasn't much help and, despite his senior position in the firm (and him being impressed with my credentials), wasn't really able to do much in the way of helping me out.

I still keep in contact with him, just as a mentor, but yeah I definitely felt the sentiment you're currently feeling. All I can say is just keep trucking--I'm sure you're tired of hearing that, but it pays off in the end.

From my own networking, I can fully attest to this. Older people just do not seem to understand post-2008 world.

[Anonymous User]

Set up a coffee date with an Assistant Attorney General. Anyone know what Mass. AG is looking for?

Grades, lots of trial experience, Massachusetts ties, and a clear interest in prosecution/public interest work.

also interested, what kinds of grades? i am above a 3 but below median. no journal or MC, but tons of public interest experience and MA ties.

[hiima3L]

2014 grad here; been networking since 1L year in my home (small) market. Anyone else notice the following pattern?

Older attorneys have a wealth of experiences to share, which are interesting, but they have no idea how difficult the market is for a new lawyer. And they have no real or practical advice for job-searching. Younger attorneys (2009 and beyond) will share contacts with you, but they're the same contacts you already have. And they like to fish for resumes, which I think is because they want to see what the competition is, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Just tired of the networking game...

I remember when I got my first lunch with a senior partner (family friend) in the practice area I was interested in, in the market I wanted to work in. I was super excited, but when I met with him it was clear he didn't quite understand hiring trends in the new market. He wasn't much help and, despite his senior position in the firm (and him being impressed with my credentials), wasn't really able to do much in the way of helping me out.

I still keep in contact with him, just as a mentor, but yeah I definitely felt the sentiment you're currently feeling. All I can say is just keep trucking--I'm sure you're tired of hearing that, but it pays off in the end.

From my own networking, I can fully attest to this. Older people just do not seem to understand post-2008 world.

The only ones that do are those who were/are in firms that had/have troubles.

[snowpeach06]

I went on an interview the other day. I think the HR lady loved me, but the guy who would be my boss was ambivalent. Still, he e-mailed me a follow up question (to which I wrote a book). Today when I sent thank you notes, the HR lady responded first with an email saying it was great to meet me and she'll decide next week. Then she said "I may contact references of the top 2-3 candidates next week (she also told me she was only interviewing four total during the interview). Do your references know I may contact them?" How do I tell references they MAY be contacted? Especially those I haven't spoken to in years?

I assume you spoke to them to ask to use their names as references for your job search? If not...welp, now would be the time to retroactively ask lol. As for the actual email, I like to do something like this -

Dear [Name]:

[Small pleasantries - hope your summer went well, etc]! I wanted to let you know that I am currently applying for [broad description of jobs I'm applying for, ie 'government honors program positions,' 'associate positions with firms in X area,' etc etc]. I would like to use you as a reference, which might result in them contacting you to discuss my time at [past job]. They will likely ask about [things relevant to the position you are applying for]. Please let me know if this is alright with you. I really enjoyed my time with [X company] and would really appreciate your help with my job search.

Thank you,

I just wrote this off the top of my head so it's just a shitty example, and normally when I write these letters it's before I apply, not after. You might want to tweak it as necessary.

Yes, I did ask all of them before using them. I think when i sat down and thought about it, I realized that this is exactly what I had to do. I just got temporarily over-concerned with the word "may" and how embarrassed I would be if there was no such call. But, it's really no more than a quick e-mail, so i'm not sure why I didn't initially think of it that way. Thanks though!

[Chuck59]

It seems like different markets are on different timelines for 3L Hiring (Big NYC is yesterday, Mid regional is Winter, small is Spring, etc.). Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a general principle.

However, I want to mass mail as soon and as efficiently as I can. I have focused on Big NYC lately, but my question is: What other markets might be looking at 3Ls right now? I heard the Palo Alto/San Fran area might be a good bet. Thoughts?

[swimmer11]

It seems like different markets are on different timelines for 3L Hiring (Big NYC is yesterday, Mid regional is Winter, small is Spring, etc.). Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a general principle.

However, I want to mass mail as soon and as efficiently as I can. I have focused on Big NYC lately, but my question is: What other markets might be looking at 3Ls right now? I heard the Palo Alto/San Fran area might be a good bet. Thoughts?

I have noticed quite a few BIGLAW firms from Chicago and LA making symplicity postings with deadlines for mid-november.

Take that as you will.