School OCI Data Forum

[dresden doll]

Never seen no Michigan data.

NYAssociate has taught you well, my son.

I'm kinda peeved CLS apparently outperformed us after all.

[bwv812]

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[rayiner]

Never seen no Michigan data.

NYAssociate has taught you well, my son.

I'm kinda peeved CLS apparently outperformed us after all.

Not necessarily. The denominator on the CLS data is # of participants in OCI, not # total number of students as in the U Chicago data. A significant part of the class (like 25 students or something) didn't do OCI.

Really the two numbers are apples and oranges. You can't tell who did better.

[let/them/eat/cake]

Never seen no Michigan data.

NYAssociate has taught you well, my son.

I'm kinda peeved CLS apparently outperformed us after all.

Not necessarily. The denominator on the CLS data is # of participants in OCI, not # total number of students as in the U Chicago data. A significant part of the class (like 25 students or something) didn't do OCI.

Really the two numbers are apples and oranges. You can't tell who did better.

such quibbling. both did pretty damn well, Igby, pretty damn well.

[rayiner]

NYAssociate has taught you well, my son.

I'm kinda peeved CLS apparently outperformed us after all.

Not necessarily. The denominator on the CLS data is # of participants in OCI, not # total number of students as in the U Chicago data. A significant part of the class (like 25 students or something) didn't do OCI.

Really the two numbers are apples and oranges. You can't tell who did better.

such quibbling. both did pretty damn well, Igby, pretty damn well.

I know. I'm just pointing out to Dresden that there is no reason for her to think that CLS did better.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Isn't every number here reflective of the placement of OCI participants? Ours certainly is and I was assuming - perhaps erroneously - that such was the case with all of them.

Nope. I know off the top of my head with certainty that the CLS number is derived from OCI success while the Duke number is derived from a list of where students are this summer. There are a lot of reasons why that could make a difference - mass mailing, declined firm offers (I know people who cleaned up at OCI then flipped the firms the bird and went to work for the DoJ), etc.

Also I'm 90% sure that the "50% mich" number was sourced from somebody's gut / impression not data the way the CLS, duke, NYU, Cornell, etc. numbers have been.

Yeah, I think someone asked Mich's career services what the percentage was, based on the responses they have gotten from students and/or looked at a list that CSO provided regarding employment.

As someone mentioned earlier, Chicago's percentage includes those who mass mailed, so it's probably less optimistic for OCI purposes than 67% or whatever it was, while Columbia's is the percentage of those who did OCI. Basically, the schools' percentages are not comparable.

I don't know Michigan's exact figure. If we're going off of percentage of students who got a job through OCI (which apparently Columbia's figure is), well... I don't have that data either. But AP did write in another thread that he got the impression it was somewhere around 60%. I believe that was a "gut feeling" estimate, but I'm not aware of any more solid data than that.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p3189703

[bwv812]

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[dresden doll]

Pretty fucking sure it's not 60% if CLS is only pulling 67%. How the hell awesomepossum could go from the sketchy 40% of class placement to 60% through OCI is beyond me. Some 3L eyeballing it just doesn't cut it.

I was going to observe the same. I am willing to believe that more than half the class found a job through OCI, but 60 percent appears rather unrealistic.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Also I'm 90% sure that the "50% mich" number was sourced from somebody's gut / impression not data the way the CLS, duke, NYU, Cornell, etc. numbers have been.

Yeah, I think someone asked Mich's career services what the percentage was, based on the responses they have gotten from students and/or looked at a list that CSO provided regarding employment.

As someone mentioned earlier, Chicago's percentage includes those who mass mailed, so it's probably less optimistic for OCI purposes than 67% or whatever it was, while Columbia's is the percentage of those who did OCI. Basically, the schools' percentages are not comparable.

I don't know Michigan's exact figure. If we're going off of percentage of students who got a job through OCI (which apparently Columbia's figure is), well... I don't have that data either. But AP did write in another thread that he got the impression it was somewhere around 60%. I believe that was a "gut feeling" estimate, but I'm not aware of any more solid data than that.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p3189703

Pretty fucking sure it's not 60% if CLS is only pulling 67%. How the hell awesomepossum could go from the sketchy 40% of class placement to 60% through OCI is beyond me. Some 3L eyeballing it just doesn't cut it.

Woah, easy bro.

I don't think estimating that 60% of the people who wanted jobs at OCI were able to get one is absurd. From my impression of speaking to other rising 2Ls re: whether they're going to try for firms through OCI, I would say that no more than 75-80% of rising 2Ls are interested. I would imagine it's fairly similar every year. Like I said, he was simply guessing.

Pretty fucking sure it's not 60% if CLS is only pulling 67%. How the hell awesomepossum could go from the sketchy 40% of class placement to 60% through OCI is beyond me. Some 3L eyeballing it just doesn't cut it.

I was going to observe the same. I am willing to believe that more than half the class found a job through OCI, but 60 percent appears rather unrealistic.

Yup, you're misreading it. 60% of OCI participants were able to get a job was what he estimated, not 60% of the class. Yikes, people.

[dresden doll]

Yup, you're misreading it. 60% of OCI participants were able to get a job was what he estimated, not 60% of the class. Yikes, people.

I wasn't misreading it. I just misworded my post.

Anyway, I'm fond of AP (and you) and didn't mean to jump down anyone's throat. I was just being skeptical.

[bwv812]

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[FlightoftheEarls]

Yup, you're misreading it. 60% of OCI participants were able to get a job was what he estimated, not 60% of the class. Yikes, people.

I wasn't misreading it. I just misworded my post.

Anyway, I'm fond of AP (and you) and didn't mean to jump down anyone's throat. I was just being skeptical.

Gotcha, not a problem. Like I said, I really think only about 75-80% of our class sounds interested in the whole firm thing. I imagine that figure doesn't fluctuate much each year, but based on the information we have this year about possible improvements in the economy, compared to all of the doom-and-gloom our OCS was projecting last year (which reportedly was a large problem - we've heard that a large number of "overqualified" people were interviewing with firms far below their range, while people who should be targeting these more "medianish" firms were stuck getting Skadden from their 28th pick and not having a chance in hell), I think there's a chance that this year might see a greater percentage of students participating than last year.

Again - pure speculation and hardly an accurate assessment. But that's the impression I get. If that's the case, I don't suppose the "60% of students who participated in OCI" estimate runs that far astray from the rumored 40% total SA placement figure.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I don't know Michigan's exact figure. If we're going off of percentage of students who got a job through OCI (which apparently Columbia's figure is), well... I don't have that data either. But AP did write in another thread that he got the impression it was somewhere around 60%. I believe that was a "gut feeling" estimate, but I'm not aware of any more solid data than that.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p3189703

Pretty fucking sure it's not 60% if CLS is only pulling 67%. How the hell awesomepossum could go from the sketchy 40% of class placement to 60% through OCI is beyond me. Some 3L eyeballing it just doesn't cut it.

Woah, easy bro.

I don't think estimating that 60% of the people who wanted jobs at OCI were able to get one is absurd. From my impression of speaking to other rising 2Ls re: whether they're going to try for firms through OCI, I would say that no more than 75-80% of rising 2Ls are interested. I would imagine it's fairly similar every year. Like I said, he was simply guessing.

In the summer of 2009, 75% of students worked at a firm. I'm willing to bet that this number was higher in 2008. And unless 100% of OCI participants got an offer (and none of the offers came outside OCI), more than 75% of Mich students are traditionally interested in summering at a firm.

Fair point, and I spoke to this a little in my above response - I would bet a number of people who had only marginal interest in working at a firm (since it seems that a good number approach OCI with rather skeptical interest) decided it wasn't worth the effort. I could be entirely off on this, and perhaps more people decided to jump on the OCI bandwagon or it stayed the exact same. But I'm guessing, if anything, it was the former.

Pretty fucking sure it's not 60% if CLS is only pulling 67%. How the hell awesomepossum could go from the sketchy 40% of class placement to 60% through OCI is beyond me. Some 3L eyeballing it just doesn't cut it.

I was going to observe the same. I am willing to believe that more than half the class found a job through OCI, but 60 percent appears rather unrealistic.

Yup, you're misreading it. 60% of OCI participants were able to get a job was what he estimated, not 60% of the class. Yikes, people.

The CLS stat is 67% of people participating in OCI, so it is directly comparable to what you're saying.

I never contradicted that (in fact, that was my exact point), so I'm wondering if you are trying to be contentious simply for the hell of it. Since I already had replied to your response in the above post, I thought I'd made it clear that I was responding to what Dres wrote. Apologies if that was not apparent.

[Anonymous User]

Relatively final UVA OGI stats:

177 unique employers coming to campus, interviewing for 573 offices.

[Anonymous User]

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[dresden doll]

If rayiner doesn't like the data because he feels like being a hypocrite and bashing us upside our heads with his knowledge of math and science, he can go fuck himself I guess?

Unnecessary. It's not wrong to doubt the figure simply because you're not sure where it's coming from.

[wiseowl]

It's not that hard to get employment data for Michigan. Just go to the career services website and there should be a directory of where 2Ls were working this summer. Assuming one would take a biglaw job offer over a non-biglaw job offer, assuming one got one, the chart is pretty complete. At my count, the placement was somewhere between 40% and 50%.

If rayiner doesn't like the data because he feels like being a hypocrite and bashing us upside our heads with his knowledge of math and science, he can go fuck himself I guess?

I look forward to seeing exactly which bitchy wolverine this is.

[bwv812]

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[NYAssociate]

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[rayiner]

It's not that hard to get employment data for Michigan. Just go to the career services website and there should be a directory of where 2Ls were working this summer. Assuming one would take a biglaw job offer over a non-biglaw job offer, assuming one got one, the chart is pretty complete. At my count, the placement was somewhere between 40% and 50%.

If rayiner doesn't like the data because he feels like being a hypocrite and bashing us upside our heads with his knowledge of math and science, he can go fuck himself I guess?

This is the first time I've heard of this directory, and I never saw it mentioned in the thread about the Michigan data. If it was mentioned and I just missed it, then I apologize for being obtuse. That makes the number much more believable.

[NYAssociate]

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[NYAssociate]

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[NYAssociate]

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[rayiner]

It's not that hard to get employment data for Michigan. Just go to the career services website and there should be a directory of where 2Ls were working this summer. Assuming one would take a biglaw job offer over a non-biglaw job offer, assuming one got one, the chart is pretty complete. At my count, the placement was somewhere between 40% and 50%.

If rayiner doesn't like the data because he feels like being a hypocrite and bashing us upside our heads with his knowledge of math and science, he can go fuck himself I guess?

This is the first time I've heard of this directory, and I never saw it mentioned in the thread about the Michigan data. If it was mentioned and I just missed it, then I apologize for being obtuse. That makes the number much more believable.

This is the first time I'm mentioning it. I didn't know it existed, but my roommate–a Michigan Law alum–showed it to me a few weeks ago. I was pretty surprised. What was even more surprising was the terrible placement at the V10. There are essentially... if I remember correctly... 15 Michigan Law students at a V10 this summer. 3 in the V5. Wow.

Seriously? Duke was at like 10%.

[NYAssociate]

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