1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread Forum

[Stephanie13]

Being Asian stinks, and I can say that b/c I am asian. We don't get URM boost yet we get counted in the school's minority percentage numbers that they get to show off as having diversity. I guess having a boost for firm work is kinda cool.. I also don't really see how we're overrepresented in law school. I know most of the Asians at WUSTL are actually the LLM students.

Anyway, not trying to be controversial here but thought I would add my 2 cents!

Don't mean to derail the thread but i agree, not enough asian americans at WUSTL. I'm pretty sure i'm friends with all 8-9 or so of the american-born asians in our class.

Do you mean in our entire 1L class? Are we friends? I'm not sure if I know who you are in real life...

[Grizz]

To those in the running for 1L SA jobs, what's the typical time frame before a callback?

Limited experience:

Firm back home: CB after like a week and a half
OCI: CB the day after the interview

[quadsixm]

Do you mean in our entire 1L class? Are we friends? I'm not sure if I know who you are in real life...

yeah, i meant in the 1L class. i guess there are a few more asian americans than that.. but not a ton. haha, i sit in front of you in civpro... your name kind of gave it away, lol.

[Stanford4Me]

To those in the running for 1L SA jobs, what's the typical time frame before a callback?

Limited experience:

Firm back home: CB after like a week and a half
OCI: CB the day after the interview

Similar, not including the firm I accepted

Firm 1: 3 days after
Firm 2: About a week after

[phonepro]

Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.

So am I. You pretty much have to do a lot of legwork yourself. Even if you try and transfer to a T14. It pretty much means a lot of targeted mailings in late July and really doing homework on firms. There are actually some good TLS threads that might help.

Still, I'm already nervous about OCI and I still have to "repeat" another semester of grades to even qualify, which will not be easy.

what do you mean by "qualify"

I mean that if I don't stay in the top 5%-ish of my class, I likely won't get into the transfer schools I plan to apply to and won't get anything at OCI whether I stay or go. And neither of these things are guaranteed even if I keep my grades or do better. Honestly, part of me wishes I had never done well in the first place -- because now I have something to lose.

Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about -- getting a 1L SA is pretty much gold; especially if you get an offer to come back for your 2L summer. So you already qualify . I'm also really not talking about this in any other context than of what I personally need to do; not what people at T2's or non-T14's as a whole need to do.

hahah thanks; and I only asked b/c do you actually have to be in a top % to even qualify for OCI? or are you just assuming you wont get big firm OCI unless your top 5%. I don't really know anything about it, but isn't it also set up where you "bid" and "rank" your bids. So, everyone is limited to a certain of number of OCI interviews? which means they will be spread out more than top 5%?

[keg411]

hahah thanks; and I only asked b/c do you actually have to be in a top % to even qualify for OCI? or are you just assuming you wont get big firm OCI unless your top 5%. I don't really know anything about it, but isn't it also set up where you "bid" and "rank" your bids. So, everyone is limited to a certain of number of OCI interviews? which means they will be spread out more than top 5%?

I meant the latter. Maybe it's bad to assume, but I'm trying to be realistic as possible. Plus, if your school is preselect, it means that the firms decide whether they want to interview you; and I'm guessing the higher your grades are the more interviews you get (at least for standard 2L OCI).

[rejectmaster]

those of you who are freaking out about judge/gov't stuff

be happy that you're american

one of my friends is canadian and therefore isn't allowed to work in us/state gov't positions.

[Anonymous User]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

[goosey]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

[Grizz]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

I feel like this would be a great question. If you want to litigate, tell how learning how judges and clerks conduct cases and make decisions can make you a better advocate for your client.

[Helmholtz]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

How is law school going / How do you like law school / What do you think of law school
What is your favorite class / least favorite class / why
Why this area of the country
Why do you want to intern for a judge
Tell me about X on your resume
What type of work do you see yourself doing / what areas of the law have interested you so far
Why law / why law school

[Stephanie13]

Do you mean in our entire 1L class? Are we friends? I'm not sure if I know who you are in real life...

yeah, i meant in the 1L class. i guess there are a few more asian americans than that.. but not a ton. haha, i sit in front of you in civpro... your name kind of gave it away, lol.

OHHH haha yea . Do you mean you sit in front of me and one seat to the left?

[Unitas]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

How is law school going / How do you like law school / What do you think of law school
What is your favorite class / least favorite class / why
Why this area of the country
Why do you want to intern for a judge
Tell me about X on your resume
What type of work do you see yourself doing / what areas of the law have interested you so far
Why law / why law school

The clerks will also likely ask: why this judge? Very important question...
Talking about clerking in the future may help too.

[traehekat]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

that's such a lame move, imo. of course you can a lot of the same experience at different jobs - YOU ARE A FIRST YEAR STUDENT. no matter where you go, the type of stuff you are going to be handling will not be that different. even if your answer wasn't the greatest, it is just stupid to grill someone on it. yeah, the answer wasn't perfect, just note it and move on.

[Helmholtz]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

How is law school going / How do you like law school / What do you think of law school
What is your favorite class / least favorite class / why
Why this area of the country
Why do you want to intern for a judge
Tell me about X on your resume
What type of work do you see yourself doing / what areas of the law have interested you so far
Why law / why law school

The clerks will also likely ask: why this judge? Very important question...
Talking about clerking in the future may help too.

After going through multiple interviews with clerks, I've never had that question asked. Although I've been going after a competitive market and I think that they just assume you mass mail every Article III judge in the area without any real reason for any particular judge.

[goosey]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

that's such a lame move, imo. of course you can a lot of the same experience at different jobs - YOU ARE A FIRST YEAR STUDENT. no matter where you go, the type of stuff you are going to be handling will not be that different. even if your answer wasn't the greatest, it is just stupid to grill someone on it. yeah, the answer wasn't perfect, just note it and move on.

exactly.

I started off by saying that I really want to work on my legal research and writing skills and I cant think of a better place to do that during my first summer than in a judge's chambers. so then she's like "well what if you get an internship w the atty general?" and I said "thats not something I had thought about and I am really not interested in that at the moment, to be honest." and then shes like "ok..but why a judge? whats so special about a judge?!" and I was like "I think being in the company of a judge in and of itself would teach me a lot. They have been doing this their whole lives..I expect to pick up knowledge just from simple interaction day to day" and then shes like "what? Partners At Law firms dont have experience? are you saying you wouldnt learn from them?!" and I was like [by now feeling very awkward] "well yes thats true. everyone is very talented in their own profession, and they do have a lot fo experience as well. But I really think that for my first summer I want to be in an environment where I can focus on learning rather than have my focus divided because of the political pressures one may face at a firm." so then shes like "well..you cant escape political pressure anywhere"

I had no idea why she was being so hostile towards me. She said all of that with a very condescending and rude tone ..needless to say, I did not get the internship. But wow. I have NO idea wth that was about.

oh yeah and at one point she said to me "you know I started at a judge's chambers, and I had a very specific reason why I wanted to work for the judge and I just dont hear any of that from you" I was like for real lady? This was after I had told her about working on writing skills and wanting to. I wanted to be like "okay, so because my REASON doesnt match YOUR reason you are being a jerk to me now?" the lady was like...wow.

[quadsixm]

OHHH haha yea . Do you mean you sit in front of me and one seat to the left?

hehe, yep

[JazzOne]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

that's such a lame move, imo. of course you can a lot of the same experience at different jobs - YOU ARE A FIRST YEAR STUDENT. no matter where you go, the type of stuff you are going to be handling will not be that different. even if your answer wasn't the greatest, it is just stupid to grill someone on it. yeah, the answer wasn't perfect, just note it and move on.

exactly.

I started off by saying that I really want to work on my legal research and writing skills and I cant think of a better place to do that during my first summer than in a judge's chambers. so then she's like "well what if you get an internship w the atty general?" and I said "thats not something I had thought about and I am really not interested in that at the moment, to be honest." and then shes like "ok..but why a judge? whats so special about a judge?!" and I was like "I think being in the company of a judge in and of itself would teach me a lot. They have been doing this their whole lives..I expect to pick up knowledge just from simple interaction day to day" and then shes like "what? partners at law firms dont have experience? are you saying you wouldnt learn from them?!" and I was like [by now feeling very awkward] "well yes thats true. everyone is very talented in their own profession, and they do have a lot fo experience as well. But I really think that for my first summer I want to be in an environment where I can focus on learning rather than have my focus divided because of the political pressures one may face at a firm." so then shes like "well..you cant escape political pressure anywhere"

I had no idea why she was being so hostile towards me. She said all of that with a very condescending and rude tone ..needless to say, I did not get the internship. But wow. I have NO idea wth that was about.

oh yeah and at one point she said to me "you know I started at a judge's chambers, and I had a very specific reason why I wanted to work for the judge and I just dont hear any of that from you" I was like for real lady? This was after I had told her about working on writing skills and wanting to. I wanted to be like "okay, so because my REASON doesnt match YOUR reason you are being a jerk to me now?" the lady was like...wow.

Gosh, and I thought biglaw partners were jerky. I've never had an experience that bad.

I did have one interview with a partner and an associate. As I walked in the door, the partner said to the associate, "I need a break, you handle this one." So he leaves, I sit down, and the first question the associate asks is, "So, do you have any questions?" Thanks for taking my interview seriously assholes. Shit, why bother asking me to come if you're going to treat it like a joke?

[Grizz]

I have a phone interview next week for an internship with a District Court judge (won't say which district, but not any of the major ones). His clerks are conducting it. What sort of questions should I expect?

"why a judge?"

got grilled on this one for 10 minutes, which felt like an eternity. ie. you can get that experience at a firm/da's office/ etc...why a judge? whats so special about a judge? what if you get an internship at the attorney generals office, why is that not better than a judge? etc etc etc.

/killself

that's such a lame move, imo. of course you can a lot of the same experience at different jobs - YOU ARE A FIRST YEAR STUDENT. no matter where you go, the type of stuff you are going to be handling will not be that different. even if your answer wasn't the greatest, it is just stupid to grill someone on it. yeah, the answer wasn't perfect, just note it and move on.

exactly.

I started off by saying that I really want to work on my legal research and writing skills and I cant think of a better place to do that during my first summer than in a judge's chambers. so then she's like "well what if you get an internship w the atty general?" and I said "thats not something I had thought about and I am really not interested in that at the moment, to be honest." and then shes like "ok..but why a judge? whats so special about a judge?!" and I was like "I think being in the company of a judge in and of itself would teach me a lot. They have been doing this their whole lives..I expect to pick up knowledge just from simple interaction day to day" and then shes like "what? partners at law firms dont have experience? are you saying you wouldnt learn from them?!" and I was like [by now feeling very awkward] "well yes thats true. everyone is very talented in their own profession, and they do have a lot fo experience as well. But I really think that for my first summer I want to be in an environment where I can focus on learning rather than have my focus divided because of the political pressures one may face at a firm." so then shes like "well..you cant escape political pressure anywhere"

I had no idea why she was being so hostile towards me. She said all of that with a very condescending and rude tone ..needless to say, I did not get the internship. But wow. I have NO idea wth that was about.

oh yeah and at one point she said to me "you know I started at a judge's chambers, and I had a very specific reason why I wanted to work for the judge and I just dont hear any of that from you" I was like for real lady? This was after I had told her about working on writing skills and wanting to. I wanted to be like "okay, so because my REASON doesnt match YOUR reason you are being a jerk to me now?" the lady was like...wow.

There was no need for her to be a dick, but those are pretty fair points. If you get another one of these, say something about how you think it's important to see how decisions are made in chambers or something like that. Something unique to judging. Then maybe try to find out some stuff that's he's decided, or what kind of cases he's (she?) worked on and talk about that.

Just like in firm interviews you have to be able to say "Why XYZ firm," you talked about why you wanted to work for a judge, but being able to say "Why XYZ judge" is pretty important, even if they know you're mass mailing everyone.

In any case, don't let it get you down. You'll get something.

[Grizz]

I did have one interview with a partner and an associate. As I walked in the door, the partner said to the associate, "I need a break, you handle this one." So he leaves, I sit down, and the first question the associate asks is, "So, do you have any questions?" Thanks for taking my interview seriously assholes. Shit, why bother asking me to come if you're going to treat it like a joke?

I had an OCI screener which started 8 mins late where the guy asked "Do you have any bros or sisters?", "What do your parents do?", "What do you do for fun besides golf?", and "What did you do for fun when you were 12?" all in that order. The last question segued into a talk about Glee. I hate Glee. Thankfully the convo moved to a mediocre football discussion.

That's a non-interview. 15 mins I won't get back.

[goosey]

There was no need for her to be a dick, but those are pretty fair points. If you get another one of these, say something about how you think it's important to see how decisions are made in chambers or something like that. Something unique to judging. Then maybe try to find out some stuff that's he's decided, or what kind of cases he's (she?) worked on and talk about that.

Just like in firm interviews you have to be able to say "Why XYZ firm," you talked about why you wanted to work for a judge, but being able to say "Why XYZ judge" is pretty important, even if they know you're mass mailing everyone.

In any case, don't let it get you down. You'll get something.

thats the thing, it wasn't for a specific judge. It was for a minority program where they match you to judges after you've been selected. I hope I never have to go through anything like that again.

also, based on my background and the social climate, I am not blind to the fact that there will be people that hate me before I even open my mouth based on who I am....I try not to assume thats why people are jerks to me when they are [theyre usually not...in fact, almost never] but in this case, I am pretty confident there was some kind of bias in play. odd for a "minority" program.

[Grizz]

There was no need for her to be a dick, but those are pretty fair points. If you get another one of these, say something about how you think it's important to see how decisions are made in chambers or something like that. Something unique to judging. Then maybe try to find out some stuff that's he's decided, or what kind of cases he's (she?) worked on and talk about that.

Just like in firm interviews you have to be able to say "Why XYZ firm," you talked about why you wanted to work for a judge, but being able to say "Why XYZ judge" is pretty important, even if they know you're mass mailing everyone.

In any case, don't let it get you down. You'll get something.

thats the thing, it wasn't for a specific judge. It was for a minority program where they match you to judges after you've been selected. I hope I never have to go through anything like that again.

That's pretty fucked up. Just learn from it and move on I guess. Come up with some airtight answers to the questions. Talk about what questions people ask with 2Ls if you can. And now you know it pretty much doesn't get any worse than that, which can sorta be a good feeling as well.

[goosey]

That's pretty fucked up. Just learn from it and move on I guess. Come up with some airtight answers to the questions. Talk about what questions people ask with 2Ls if you can. And now you know it pretty much doesn't get any worse than that, which can sorta be a good feeling as well.

thats what my career counselor said as well. I am also a weakling and Im glad I got toughened up early on so I can handle hostility better next time.

[Grizz]

That's pretty fucked up. Just learn from it and move on I guess. Come up with some airtight answers to the questions. Talk about what questions people ask with 2Ls if you can. And now you know it pretty much doesn't get any worse than that, which can sorta be a good feeling as well.

thats what my career counselor said as well. I am also a weakling and Im glad I got toughened up early on so I can handle hostility better next time.

Hell yeah; that's the spirit.

[Master Tofu]

GOOD LUCK 1Ls!