The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Bikeflip]

I fucking did it I fucking got out of the vale with a Federal District Court Clerkship in my home (desirable, competitive but not most competitive...certainly non-flyover) district. I go to a t30 and am below median. The stars literally aligned. All of the stress and sadness over my whole 3L year was worth it...because if I had gotten any of those jobs, I would not have even applied for this.

Best of luck to everybody else. It may seem bleak, but one day, it'll just happen.

Good work son

And it is Spleen. Way I see it, I'll fucking make my break via volunteering to solo if I have to.

[gfunk01]

Pretty definitely out of the vale. Just got notified that my paperwork was approved by the city, so now just need to make the details to confirm my position. Will update later. Thanks for the support.

[jaydizzle]

Pretty definitely out of the vale. Just got notified that my paperwork was approved by the city, so now just need to make the details to confirm my position. Will update later. Thanks for the support.

Nice! Well deserved.

[rad lulz]

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[sandcastle45]

My school posted a job at a firm…I was looking through their attorneys' bios and noticed one of them went to the same undergrad as me. It's a fairly uncommon undergrad in the part of the country we are at and a small school. The application is not supposed to go this person though. Is there anyway to make this connection or is just putting that I graduated from there enough in my cover letter? Don't want to do something weird, but at the same time, I feel like it might help? What to do?

[rad lulz]

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[Pokemon]

My school posted a job at a firm…I was looking through their attorneys' bios and noticed one of them went to the same undergrad as me. It's a fairly uncommon undergrad in the part of the country we are at and a small school. The application is not supposed to go this person though. Is there anyway to make this connection or is just putting that I graduated from there enough in my cover letter? Don't want to do something weird, but at the same time, I feel like it might help? What to do?

Email the dude, say you're thinking of applying, and ask him ab his practice and his work

You should do this.

[Anonymous User]

i just wanted to write and say good luck to everyone still on this thread.

I've been an on and off lurker but even just looking through the thread now there are all kinds of people's experiences. I was most interested in the T10/T6 perspectives and outcomes because that was my situation, but looking sucks for everyone. So good luck to everyone and keep trying because it's still possible.

[JenDarby]

In case others don't receive the Oscar clerkship emails:

Judge Sheila O
US District Court
Fresno, CA
Term: 1 Year
Clerkship Type: Term Law Clerk-Chambers
Applications accepted: Jul 1, 2014 - Aug 1, 2014
Term Start: Oct 1, 2014

[Anonymous User]

Have an interview set for August after the bar.
I was getting curious when the start date would be for this firm.
Would it be okay to email them and ask about the potential start date? Or would this reflect badly on me (for whatever reason)?

[Kronk]

Have an interview set for August after the bar.
I was getting curious when the start date would be for this firm.
Would it be okay to email them and ask about the potential start date? Or would this reflect badly on me (for whatever reason)?

Ask during your interview dude lol

[Anonymous User]

Have an interview set for August after the bar.
I was getting curious when the start date would be for this firm.
Would it be okay to email them and ask about the potential start date? Or would this reflect badly on me (for whatever reason)?

Ask during your interview dude lol

Yeah but the interview is in August, so I wanted to ask now because I have to plan for relocation etc..
And just wondering if asking about it has any bad implications that I am not aware of...

[YankeesFan]

Eh, I wouldn't ask. This is a logical question and in a perfect world would be completely fine to ask, but you know that hiring is weird. Firms seem to be hyper-sensitive to "cart before the horse" people. Unless you know the hiring partner well or are sure that they are not looking at other candidates, I would just assume that you would start whenever firms of that size and in the geographic area start (biglaw-no rush/flexible start, small firm-likely right after bar results come back).

[Pokemon]

Have an interview set for August after the bar.
I was getting curious when the start date would be for this firm.
Would it be okay to email them and ask about the potential start date? Or would this reflect badly on me (for whatever reason)?

Ask during your interview dude lol

Yeah but the interview is in August, so I wanted to ask now because I have to plan for relocation etc..
And just wondering if asking about it has any bad implications that I am not aware of...

I would not ask out of the blue. Maybe when they offered you the interview, you could have asked, but now it has the potential to come off weirdly.

[Kronk]

Unless it affects whether or not you take the job I don't see the point in asking. You wouldn't make moving plans until they actually offered you a job, right? Which is obviously happening after the interview.

[Anonymous User]

I have a summary level criminal charge on my record that is being dropped at the end of August, so I guess the charge would show up as pending (?) now on a background check. I have a few interviews lined up this week, so I would guess if it went to a background check stage it would happen before the charges are dropped. Is this something I should bring up if they mention background checks? Do most employers do a background check? Neither application asked about being charged, just convictions, and this is definitely being dropped. Any thoughts?

[Tanicius]

I have a summary level criminal charge on my record that is being dropped at the end of August, so I guess the charge would show up as pending (?) now on a background check. I have a few interviews lined up this week, so I would guess if it went to a background check stage it would happen before the charges are dropped. Is this something I should bring up if they mention background checks? Do most employers do a background check? Neither application asked about being charged, just convictions, and this is definitely being dropped. Any thoughts?

Nobody's gonna care about an impending charge for speeding. For a DUI or drug possession or worse, they might care enough to ask. Would never in a million years bring it up in an interview myself though.

[Anonymous User]

I have a summary level criminal charge on my record that is being dropped at the end of August, so I guess the charge would show up as pending (?) now on a background check. I have a few interviews lined up this week, so I would guess if it went to a background check stage it would happen before the charges are dropped. Is this something I should bring up if they mention background checks? Do most employers do a background check? Neither application asked about being charged, just convictions, and this is definitely being dropped. Any thoughts?

Nobody's gonna care about an impending charge for speeding. For a DUI or drug possession or worse, they might care enough to ask. Would never in a million years bring it up in an interview myself though.

It's for "retail theft" (I was accused of concealing merchandise back in February, and the charges will be dropped at the end of August once I jump through some hoops). If I was asked I would disclosure it obviously, but I didn't know if they mentioned a background check if I should provide a quick explanation along the lines of - "was accused, spoke to magistrate, charges being dropped."?

[Anonymous User]

Had an interview recently, really liked all the attorneys, long term potential is great...however it's a commission only model, there's no base salary, and it would require moving to an area where i have no ties not knowing my yearly take. And I'd have to hustle clients in the door day one. I'm not a salesperson, at all, the kind of cases i know how to handle at this stage in my career are low paying and good luck getting people to actually pay you. I have no clue how i would eat for the first couple years

I've been in the vale a stupidly long time and i just don't know what to do anymore. Doors slam in my face or the ones that are open just aren't feasible.

[Tanicius]

Had an interview recently, really liked all the attorneys, long term potential is great...however it's a commission only model, there's no base salary, and it would require moving to an area where i have no ties not knowing my yearly take. And I'd have to hustle clients in the door day one. I'm not a salesperson, at all, the kind of cases i know how to handle at this stage in my career are low paying and good luck getting people to actually pay you. I have no clue how i would eat for the first couple years

I've been in the vale a stupidly long time and i just don't know what to do anymore. Doors slam in my face or the ones that are open just aren't feasible.

I don't understand. These commission-only firms sound like pure Pyramid schemes. How is that is actually anything better than just working your own job at their building? Like, it's even worse than that, because you don't even get fully paid for the clientele you bring in. You're literally paying them for the privilege to bring in your own clients. It's like the legal version of Mary K. You'd be better advised to live at your parents' house and rent some random office space in your hometown and try to bring in clients that way. At least that way you'd be starting with the same book of business (i.e. none) but wouldn't have to move across the country and live without the support of family or friends, and you'd get to keep 100% of the after-tax income.

[Anonymous User]

Had an interview recently, really liked all the attorneys, long term potential is great...however it's a commission only model, there's no base salary, and it would require moving to an area where i have no ties not knowing my yearly take. And I'd have to hustle clients in the door day one. I'm not a salesperson, at all, the kind of cases i know how to handle at this stage in my career are low paying and good luck getting people to actually pay you. I have no clue how i would eat for the first couple years

I've been in the vale a stupidly long time and i just don't know what to do anymore. Doors slam in my face or the ones that are open just aren't feasible.

I don't understand. These commission-only firms sound like pure Pyramid schemes. How is that is actually anything better than just working your own job at their building? Like, it's even worse than that, because you don't even get fully paid for the clientele you bring in. You're literally paying them for the privilege to bring in your own clients. It's like the legal version of Mary K. You'd be better advised to live at your parents' house and rent some random office space in your hometown and try to bring in clients that way. At least that way you'd be starting with the same book of business (i.e. none) but wouldn't have to move across the country and live without the support of family or friends, and you'd get to keep 100% of the after-tax income.

I hadn't ever encountered it, but thank you for phrasing it this way because I'd feel less crappy turning it down.

[Holly Golightly]

I think malpractice insurance is usually one of the benefits of a shop like that. (Not saying it's a great opportunity by any means. But if the alternative is trying to open your own shop, it makes a difference.)

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I think malpractice insurance is usually one of the benefits of a shop like that. (Not saying it's a great opportunity by any means. But if the alternative is trying to open your own shop, it makes a difference.)

Really don't understand why so many people on TLS assume law grads require mal insurance.

1. Most solos don't have it.
2. Legal malpractice is hard to pull off.
3. Your (probably) judgement proof.

[Tanicius]

I think malpractice insurance is usually one of the benefits of a shop like that. (Not saying it's a great opportunity by any means. But if the alternative is trying to open your own shop, it makes a difference.)

Malpractice insurance isn't necessary for beginning solo's. Most of your work is super low-risk and you're judgment proof anyway. Also, malpractice insurance offers super low rates for recent law grads.

[rad lulz]

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