Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

I fall into the camp that says there's no way DPW (or any other firm in the V50) would announce a pay structure that explicitly favors certain practice groups over others. I think that would be one of the most foolish moves possible for the long-term health of the firm (really, the biglaw model in general) and I say that as someone who's currently in a group at my V10 that is definitely driving an outsized share of profits. Things ebb and flow and I don't want to work (nor would many of my colleagues I suspect) at a place where certain groups are more favored than others at the associate level; that seems fundamentally opposed to what a law firm is about. To the extent people are working longer or harder hours, I do think it's fine for us to be rewarded year-end with a bigger bonus.

Agree with this 100%. As a senior associate in one of the busiest groups of a fully lockstep firm, the year-to-year certainty with respect to pay (regardless of group or even firm performance) is one of the main reasons I have yet to decamp to in-house.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW had a less baller FY 2021 than expected (or a weaker FY 2022 outlook) and is actively trying to disavow/abdicate “comp leader” status? Seems like a possibility.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW had a less baller FY 2021 than expected (or a weaker FY 2022 outlook) and is actively trying to disavow/abdicate “comp leader” status? Seems like a possibility.

No because they can easily abdicate by simply matching Milbank. Milbank then becomes the comp leader until someone tries to re-raise them. They're probably just debating whether they want to raise base or match base + special bonus based on hours/retention. It'll probably be this week I assume.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe different scales for hybrid vs full time in office situations? That could make sense to hold back until their town hall. But doesn’t really seem like a sensible approach

This doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

[NoLongerALurker]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

You have a base salary. This is what you get paid over the course of the year in usually 24 increments. You also have a year end bonus, which range from a small 5 figure up to 6 figures based on seniority and you get at the end of the year..it’s basically guaranteed that there will be a year end bonus every year. Sometimes (frequently as of late, but historically rare), firms also throw in some lump sum bonuses throughout the year like “here’s a special bonus that we are paying you in April but we don’t promise it every year”. You’re talking like 10k-50k depending on seniority kinda stuff, usually

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

You have a base salary. This is what you get paid over the course of the year in usually 24 increments. You also have a year end bonus, which range from a small 5 figure up to 6 figures based on seniority and you get at the end of the year..it’s basically guaranteed that there will be a year end bonus every year. Sometimes (frequently as of late, but historically rare), firms also throw in some lump sum bonuses throughout the year like “here’s a special bonus that we are paying you in April but we don’t promise it every year”. You’re talking like 10k-50k depending on seniority kinda stuff, usually

I think honestly we should just call it a fall bonus instead.

[babylawyer101]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

Before someone takes your head off here... A special bonus is just a one-time bonus that isn't promised to anyone next year. for example, if DPW decided to pay everyone a bonus May 31, 2022, the firm isn't setting the expectation that they will be giving out bonuses every May 31st going forward. Every firm has their own guidelines for who will get the special bonus but it is typically everyone in good standing and on track to hit their billable hour requirement, if there is one. The difference between packaging the comp as a special bonus rather than a salary increase is that salary increases will last for years to come.

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

Before someone takes your head off here... A special bonus is just a one-time bonus that isn't promised to anyone next year. for example, if DPW decided to pay everyone a bonus May 31, 2022, the firm isn't setting the expectation that they will be giving out bonuses every May 31st going forward. Every firm has their own guidelines for who will get the special bonus but it is typically everyone in good standing and on track to hit their billable hour requirement, if there is one. The difference between packaging the comp as a special bonus rather than a salary increase is that salary increases will last for years to come.

Thanks for not taking my head off (and thanks to NoLongerALurker too). This seems to make sense from a firm's perspective.

[Anonymous User]

If DPW decides to go with a special bonus instead of raising the base salary again, will other firms follow suit and go with special bonuses? Or is it just as likely that maybe a peer firm to DPW decides to raise again and doesn't do special bonuses?

DPW not announcing a re-raise (but announcing a special bonus) would solidify the salary scale at the Milbank level and then you'd see the V50 follow suit with their special bonus match announcements. Law firms crave stability & certainty; they're not trying to play a comp. war game for the rest of the winter / spring. Everyone's just waiting to see what DPW does. This only goes one more round IMO as far as the salary scale; it's just a question of what DPW does with its round.

I'm leaning more and more into the camp of DPW is going to announce a set of spring and fall bonuses. There's no way they're taking 3 weeks to just announce a Milbank match or even a re-raise.

I'm a law student so forgive the stupid question. What exactly are special bonuses? Are they guaranteed to everybody and will they amount to the same $ as a 10K base increase? TY.

Before someone takes your head off here... A special bonus is just a one-time bonus that isn't promised to anyone next year. for example, if DPW decided to pay everyone a bonus May 31, 2022, the firm isn't setting the expectation that they will be giving out bonuses every May 31st going forward. Every firm has their own guidelines for who will get the special bonus but it is typically everyone in good standing and on track to hit their billable hour requirement, if there is one. The difference between packaging the comp as a special bonus rather than a salary increase is that salary increases will last for years to come.

I read in one of the threads that firms started giving out special bonuses due to the pandemic. So is that the cause or would firms issue special bonuses even before that? (Also a law student so unaware)

[Anonymous User]

Special bonuses were uncommon between 2008 and 2020. The only prior instance of a special bonus that I can recall post-Great Recession was a one-off special bonus accompanying the raise to $190k back in 2018, although that could largely be viewed as a true-up of base salary given that the raise happened mid-year.

[Anonymous User]

Special bonuses were uncommon between 2008 and 2020. The only prior instance of a special bonus that I can recall post-Great Recession was a one-off special bonus accompanying the raise to $190k back in 2018, although that could largely be viewed as a true-up of base salary given that the raise happened mid-year.

Thank you

[tlsthrowaway1306]

Clearly what is taking so long are all of the blatantly illegal secret meetings between firms where they discuss their cartel behavior.

[Anonymous User]

Provided the discussion above, what do you think prompts firms like Milbank to commit to an increase that will stay in place for years to come? Is it just that they're known as being the firm that raises the base salary time and time again and so it helps them attract talent? How much does this stick given that the last time this happened, most firms followed suit and it just became the new norm?

[Anonymous User]

Are DPW townhalls usually done by zoom? I doubt law firms allow for anonymous questions but if they do, is anyone brave enough to ask the question we all want an answer to?

[Anonymous User]

Provided the discussion above, what do you think prompts firms like Milbank to commit to an increase that will stay in place for years to come? Is it just that they're known as being the firm that raises the base salary time and time again and so it helps them attract talent? How much does this stick given that the last time this happened, most firms followed suit and it just became the new norm?

Yeah, its almost entirely about attracting talent for Milbank. Since they aren't one of the conventionally "elite" or "prestigious" NY firms, they use their comp leader status as a way to attract the same candidates the elite firms do. I assume the long game here is that Milbank works its way into the Cleary/Weil/Debevoise tier of NY firms, which it isn't really that far off anyway at this point.

As to your second question, yes, this either gets raised or sticks. No serious biglaw firm can afford not to match the market, especially in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know why SullCom doesn't take the lead? Among big firms, they have had the top revenue per lawyer for almost two decades in a row.

[TigerIsBack]

Does anyone know why SullCom doesn't take the lead? Among big firms, they have had the top revenue per lawyer for almost two decades in a row.

Probably partially because revenue isn't the same as profit, partially because they know they can get pretty much the same level of talent without being the leader on comp since everyone knows they will match the other NY shops, partially because they may just not care about being a comp leader, and partially a bunch of other reasons.

I'm all for massive comp increases every year because this job is hard and demanding on its best day, but I have to imagine (cynically) that the partners really don't care that much about how quickly or when associates get raises until some other competitor firm forces them to care. In their mind, they've worked harder for longer and want to keep the rewards for doing so.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know why SullCom doesn't take the lead? Among big firms, they have had the top revenue per lawyer for almost two decades in a row.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. They do well for recruitment and their culture doesn't seem to fit with "market leader." What incentive do they have to pay more before they have to?

[bigboybob]

According to ATL, Cooley has matched and handed out special bonuses.... where is my Lobster Neil?!

[mcdermontsam]

According to ATL, Cooley has matched and handed out special bonuses.... where is my Lobster Neil?!

According to the article: "For what it’s worth, these special bonuses may be tied to Cooley’s year-end bonuses, which are typically announced in February. This would mean that the firm has matched the prevailing market rate for year-end bonuses."

So I think this only has to do with the DPW special bonuses from last year. Normal ATL clickbait.

[Wanderingdrock]

Provided the discussion above, what do you think prompts firms like Milbank to commit to an increase that will stay in place for years to come? Is it just that they're known as being the firm that raises the base salary time and time again and so it helps them attract talent? How much does this stick given that the last time this happened, most firms followed suit and it just became the new norm?

It's all about attracting and retaining talent. Not only does Milbank get its name out there by being the first-mover, which wins it a ton of (deserved!) associate and law student goodwill across the industry, but it's also just a recognition that Biglaw has to raise from time to time to continue attracting candidates who might otherwise go in-house. Amazon just more than doubled its cash comp cap for white collar employees to $350,000 in order to continue attracting talent - mostly engineers, but this could make Amazon a lot more attractive to lawyers as well, and other tech companies may follow suit, and then maybe the banks feel obliged to give raises, etc. and before you know it in-house jobs have an edge again in recruiting associates out of Biglaw.

[tlsguy2020]

[deleted bc I don't want to derail]