NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Skadden is cash poor.

What does that mean?

It means their cash poor

they're*

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

[Anonymous User]

Friend says McDermott matched with bonus

[Anonymous User]

boy is it fun to sit back and see what the firms do. Ridiculous, isn't it a bit? 190k for a first year associate.

[Anonymous User]

Friend says McDermott matched with bonus

huge if true.

[10b5]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Yes but sadly there is a pretty stark difference between what they can afford to do and what they need to do.

I get that to the associates the "who matches first" all feels like a game, but this comes directly from the partner's future compensation/they have to justify rate increases to clients. If there isn't serious upwards pressure, why go any further than you need to?

The only reason for Cravath or another big player to push above 190k is if they sincerely believe that they will leave some firms behind - that might be benefit enough. Maybe that's what all the wait is about: real in depth discussion on the financial state of the industry and whether they could force a sea change. But I really doubt it.

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Quin wouldn't be the wildest choice, aren't they bringing in a full SA class again this year? Not a bad time to make a statement. I've also heard from reputation they have a huge problem with laterals.

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day just matched, with retroactive compensation to summers.

What the heck is "retroactive compensation"? I want that.

What's your source? I'm a JD associate and we've gotten no info, and it would be really atypical of the firm to announce something like this

[Anonymous User]

Friend says McDermott matched with bonus

huge if true.

Would guarantee KE at least matches the summer bonus (can't get shown up in Chicago hometown).

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Quin wouldn't be the wildest choice, aren't they bringing in a full SA class again this year? Not a bad time to make a statement. I've also heard from reputation they have a huge problem with laterals.

They have problems with recruitment and retention because working there seems to suck, or at least that's the reputation

[Anonymous User]

so do we actually have any real news here?

Jones day --- seemingly fake?

McDermott --???

[Anonymous User]

Man, this is just crazy.

Anyone have predictions on secondary markets? (Excluding TX); Seattle, San Diego, Delaware firms?

[Anonymous User]

so do we actually have any real news here?

Jones day --- seemingly fake?

McDermott --???

We also had some fake OMM news yesterday I believe. Why post this stuff if it's fake?

[JohnnieSockran]

Man, this is just crazy.

Anyone have predictions on secondary markets? (Excluding TX); Seattle, San Diego, Delaware firms?

Is SD even at $180k yet? Idk the big players down there, but maybe if you're lucky in SD someone like Sheppard Mullin raises (even if not a full match), but I assume the whole market won't.

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Quin wouldn't be the wildest choice, aren't they bringing in a full SA class again this year? Not a bad time to make a statement. I've also heard from reputation they have a huge problem with laterals.

They have problems with recruitment and retention because working there seems to suck, or at least that's the reputation

Speaking as someone who is married to a Quinn associate... The real problem at Quinn is that they didn't hire a summer class in 2014-2017. They tried to hire 3Ls to make up for it, and they were offering signing bonuses equal to summer pay (so you could summer at, say, DPW and then go to Quinn as a 3L and get paid for two summers while only "working" one), but very, very few people took them up on it, to the point where they have almost zero first or second years or new incoming associates this fall. That's turning into a bit of a staffing and retention crisis for the firm because third to fourth years are unhappy about still doing junior associate work and leaving to go elsewhere while staffing is even tighter than the firm ordinarily intends because they aren't hiring the number of associates they need to do all of the work. Clients are also pissed because they're paying third-year and fourth-year rates for first-year work. Working there does suck, and always has, but it's worse than usual/than intended at the moment.

They have five summer associates this year and are turning around completely to hire a full summer class for next year (don't know exact figures but I'd guess close to their historical 25-ish class size in NY), but it's really way too late in the game to turn around the staffing and retention problems in the short term.

On the other hand, John Quinn is personally comically cheap and runs the firm basically as a one-man-show, so I can't imagine them leading on salaries and wouldn't be surprised if they cheaped out on "summer bonuses".

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Quin wouldn't be the wildest choice, aren't they bringing in a full SA class again this year? Not a bad time to make a statement. I've also heard from reputation they have a huge problem with laterals.

They have problems with recruitment and retention because working there seems to suck, or at least that's the reputation

They have four choices:
Deal with being chronically short of associates
Hire associates who had no better options
Make Quinn a nicer place to work
Raise salaries

[Anonymous User]

Friend says McDermott matched with bonus

huge if true.

[Anonymous User]

Man, this is just crazy.

Anyone have predictions on secondary markets? (Excluding TX); Seattle, San Diego, Delaware firms?

Is SD even at $180k yet? Idk the big players down there, but maybe if you're lucky in SD someone like Sheppard Mullin raises (even if not a full match), but I assume the whole market won't.

I mean more so in terms of any salary increase (i.e., firms still at 160 will now bump at least something after seeing other firms going to 190)

[4LTsPointingNorth]

boy is it fun to sit back and see what the firms do. Ridiculous, isn't it a bit? 190k for a first year associate.

190k for a first year associate is still around $5000-$10,000 below the purchasing power of 160k when it was set as the pay standard in 2007.

In other words any current junior partners involved in making firm pay decisions this week are essentially discussing whether first years now should be compensated at an adjusted rate equivalent to what they themselves were paid when they first started at their firms.

Barring poor firm financial health (in which case any increase may not be prudent), that doesn't seem like a ridiculous wage adjustment to me. It's just keeping pace with inflation.

[Anonymous User]

Any of the numerous firms with $4,000,000 or more in profits per partner could easily afford to bump to $210,000 for associates. That's Kirkland, Cravath, DPW, Quinn (John Quinn was just complaining about being "very short" on associates), S&C.

Quin wouldn't be the wildest choice, aren't they bringing in a full SA class again this year? Not a bad time to make a statement. I've also heard from reputation they have a huge problem with laterals.

They have problems with recruitment and retention because working there seems to suck, or at least that's the reputation

Speaking as someone who is married to a Quinn associate... The real problem at Quinn is that they didn't hire a summer class in 2014-2017. They tried to hire 3Ls to make up for it, and they were offering signing bonuses equal to summer pay (so you could summer at, say, DPW and then go to Quinn as a 3L and get paid for two summers while only "working" one), but very, very few people took them up on it, to the point where they have almost zero first or second years or new incoming associates this fall. That's turning into a bit of a staffing and retention crisis for the firm because third to fourth years are unhappy about still doing junior associate work and leaving to go elsewhere while staffing is even tighter than the firm ordinarily intends because they aren't hiring the number of associates they need to do all of the work. Clients are also pissed because they're paying third-year and fourth-year rates for first-year work. Working there does suck, and always has, but it's worse than usual/than intended at the moment.

They have five summer associates this year and are turning around completely to hire a full summer class for next year (don't know exact figures but I'd guess close to their historical 25-ish class size in NY), but it's really way too late in the game to turn around the staffing and retention problems in the short term.

On the other hand, John Quinn is personally comically cheap and runs the firm basically as a one-man-show, so I can't imagine them leading on salaries and wouldn't be surprised if they cheaped out on "summer bonuses".

Also married to a Quinn associate. The general consensus seems to be that they aren't expecting QE to give the STB summer bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Man, this is just crazy.

Anyone have predictions on secondary markets? (Excluding TX); Seattle, San Diego, Delaware firms?

Is SD even at $180k yet? Idk the big players down there, but maybe if you're lucky in SD someone like Sheppard Mullin raises (even if not a full match), but I assume the whole market won't.

I mean more so in terms of any salary increase (i.e., firms still at 160 will now bump at least something after seeing other firms going to 190)

Certainly possible, but would be hard to say and is likely to be on a firm-by-firm or market-by-market basis.

[Anonymous User]

Man, this is just crazy.

Anyone have predictions on secondary markets? (Excluding TX); Seattle, San Diego, Delaware firms?

Is SD even at $180k yet? Idk the big players down there, but maybe if you're lucky in SD someone like Sheppard Mullin raises (even if not a full match), but I assume the whole market won't.

I mean more so in terms of any salary increase (i.e., firms still at 160 will now bump at least something after seeing other firms going to 190)

Certainly possible, but would be hard to say and is likely to be on a firm-by-firm or market-by-market basis.

I agree; depends largely on whether a large number of firms match 190; if the big players brush it off and stay at 180, second/tertiary markets will likely hold their ground

[Anonymous User]

i'm personally not surprised the McDermott post was false. i even had to google them to work out who they are.

do they only have a TX office or something?

[Anonymous User]

boy is it fun to sit back and see what the firms do. Ridiculous, isn't it a bit? 190k for a first year associate.

190k for a first year associate is still around $5000-$10,000 below the purchasing power of 160k when it was set as the pay standard in 2007.

In other words any current junior partners involved in making firm pay decisions this week are essentially discussing whether first years now should be compensated at an adjusted rate equivalent to what they themselves were paid when they first started at their firms.

Barring poor firm financial health (in which case any increase may not be prudent), that doesn't seem like a ridiculous wage adjustment to me. It's just keeping pace with inflation.

Even going to 200k wouldn't match inflation, despite profits per partner and billing rate increases far outpacing inflation at most of the top firms.

[TheoO]

boy is it fun to sit back and see what the firms do. Ridiculous, isn't it a bit? 190k for a first year associate.

190k for a first year associate is still around $5000-$10,000 below the purchasing power of 160k when it was set as the pay standard in 2007.

In other words any current junior partners involved in making firm pay decisions this week are essentially discussing whether first years now should be compensated at an adjusted rate equivalent to what they themselves were paid when they first started at their firms.

Barring poor firm financial health (in which case any increase may not be prudent), that doesn't seem like a ridiculous wage adjustment to me. It's just keeping pace with inflation.

And that doesn't even take into account the fact that tuition has skyrocketed the way it has.