2013 UVA OGI Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Covington DC cb. Caveat: I am fairly sure these are not going out at the same time.

[Anonymous User]

Covington DC cb. Caveat: I am fairly sure these are not going out at the same time.

Confirming Cov DC CB today.

[Anonymous User]

Appx. when did the Covington CBs go out?

[Anonymous User]

I want to say within the last hour.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan DC just went out

That's unfortunate. I was really hoping to hear from them.

[Anonymous User]

Kasowitz and Goodwin Boston dings via email today.

[thesealocust]

Hi friends!

1. A&P is doing at least some contacting of references, and at least some callbacks have gone out. WHAT SORCERY IS THIS THE 5L HAS RELEVANT OGI INFO AHHH~

2. Some firms move really fast and some don't. Most people doing OGI will only get a smattering of callbacks and a small number of offers. Don't let your perspective get warped by the people with 4.4 GPAs getting dog piled by big NYC firms, especially if you're otherwise qualified but looking in other markets. Many gloom and doomers wind up at amazing firms and with many - just not as many as they had hoped - offers.

3. I would STRONGLY recommend not neurotically tracking which firms "have given callbacks." It may well be true that if people have gotten a CB from firm X, and you have not, that you are out of the running - but it absolutely is not always the case. In some instances, firms stagger callbacks based on office location and/or particular interviewer, so you could give yourself a lot of anxiety only to quickly get a CB. In still others, even major firms have given waves of callbacks. It's not common, but it does happen, and you're just stressing yourself out if you actively try to predict your dings based on the news other people have heard.

4. If you're anxious, find more firms to apply to. That's the absolute best thing you can do - don't navel gaze, be proactive. Career services is an option, but they are extremely overwhelmed right now so keep that in mind.

[Anonymous User]

Morgan Lewis (LA) ding via email.

[Anonymous User]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

[thesealocust]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

Yup.

[Anonymous User]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

Yup.

But unless you're willing to lie at interviews the secondary markets are really impossible without ties. I'm talking about having a GPA over .3 above the firm's cut off, having a good connection with the interviewer and listing logical reasons of why you want to be in the city. I think with median maybe a mix of big DC and NYC classes with NYC hiring partners would have been the way to go. Generally, it seems awfully hard to go from associate to callback if you're not the kind of person who inspires a very passionate reaction. I think a lot of people assume they're a special snowflake interviewer, because the rejections aren't as direct as getting a B-.

[Anonymous User]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

Yup.

What do you do with no ties elsewhere though?

[5ky]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

Yup.

What do you do with no ties elsewhere though?

Bid NY or something. DC is a tough get.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if any Orrick DC CBs have gone out?

went out Friday

[StanleyF]

I'm not giving up. It isn't interviewing as my answers are all thought out but are improvised so as to not be scripted. I'm personable, confident, well dressed. Logically, I know what the issue is but it just kind of sucks as there's little I can do about it, and probably should have realized this was a probable outcome before starting law school. I do have some CB's, and I guess at this point I'll just take what I can get, and overachieve at the firm I'm at to put bread on the table. If I did strikeout, I would not see it as giving up. My underlying goal is to be really successful in a respected profession, and I could probably just as easily succeed in something else where hiring is not as superficial.

1) If you have some callbacks, you are in much less danger of striking out than many others.

2) No one gets callbacks from every firm they interview with; having "some callbacks" means that you are currently experiencing OGI success, not failure.

3) All you need is one offer to make OGI a complete, smashing success.

4) Getting hung up about prestige, firm reputation, or thinking that you know which firms would be good to work for based on a screener and whatever information is available online is a big mistake. When you get down to it, Big Law jobs are all basically alike, and no one—I mean NO ONE—cares about law firm "prestige" other than law students and a very small number of lawyers.

5) "Being really successful" in Big Law means making partner. Very, very few people make partner, and if you are telling firms that you want to be at a place where you can make partner, you are making a huge mistake. Firms look at incoming associates not as future partners, but as drones who can crank hours for 8 years. Your language about "over achieving" at a Big Law firm to put food on the table is more than a little weird—you've never worked as an associate at a big firm, you have no idea what the work is really like, yet you assume that you will over achieve based on what, doing well in law school? This is a dangerous attitude to carry into an interview room, even if you think you are hiding it really well.

6) I have a hunch that whatever "slight handicap" you have is not responsible for your perceived lack of callbacks. Almost everyone going into an interview has a "handicap" of one kind or another, meaning something they wish they could change about themselves but can't. All we can do is the best we can do, but if you go into an interview thinking "my slight handicap is going to screw me," then you may be projecting that to the interviewer. After a lifetime of wrestling with my own "handicap," my approach in interviews and in life is to go in thinking, "my handicap makes me stronger in other ways."

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale Boston cb this morning.

[Anonymous User]

If you're median do you think it was a bad idea to bid mainly in DC?

Yup.

But unless you're willing to lie at interviews the secondary markets are really impossible without ties. I'm talking about having a GPA over .3 above the firm's cut off, having a good connection with the interviewer and listing logical reasons of why you want to be in the city. I think with median maybe a mix of big DC and NYC classes with NYC hiring partners would have been the way to go. Generally, it seems awfully hard to go from associate to callback if you're not the kind of person who inspires a very passionate reaction. I think a lot of people assume they're a special snowflake interviewer, because the rejections aren't as direct as getting a B-.

Ties could be something like being from the southeast and bidding Atlanta, so I don't really buy that.

Also the whole hiring partner v. associate interview seems to be nonsense. What could you possibly be basing that on other than your own anecdotal experience? I haven't encountered that at all, and I'm pretty sure each room of interviewers is allowed to make callback decisions. Ridiculous to throw this sort of misinformation on here

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale Boston cb this morning.

Interviewer initials?

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale Boston cb this morning.

Interviewer initials?

I think there was only one. I didn't hear either and really wanted it.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement from Jackson Walker?

[Anonymous User]

Gibson Dunn Devner sail ding

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear from Kirkland Chicago yet?

[Anonymous User]

anyone know how interviews for the later arrival OGI firms like Proskauer are determined? Pre-select, lottery or just specifically chosen by K. Donovan? Just got one and wonder what position I'm in. I have DC ties but my resume is oriented toward a different market.

[Anonymous User]

DPW ding via email. A V5 firm said my credentials were impressive.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not giving up. It isn't interviewing as my answers are all thought out but are improvised so as to not be scripted. I'm personable, confident, well dressed. Logically, I know what the issue is but it just kind of sucks as there's little I can do about it, and probably should have realized this was a probable outcome before starting law school. I do have some CB's, and I guess at this point I'll just take what I can get, and overachieve at the firm I'm at to put bread on the table. If I did strikeout, I would not see it as giving up. My underlying goal is to be really successful in a respected profession, and I could probably just as easily succeed in something else where hiring is not as superficial.

1) If you have some callbacks, you are in much less danger of striking out than many others.

2) No one gets callbacks from every firm they interview with; having "some callbacks" means that you are currently experiencing OGI success, not failure.

3) All you need is one offer to make OGI a complete, smashing success.

4) Getting hung up about prestige, firm reputation, or thinking that you know which firms would be good to work for based on a screener and whatever information is available online is a big mistake. When you get down to it, Big Law jobs are all basically alike, and no one—I mean NO ONE—cares about law firm "prestige" other than law students and a very small number of lawyers.

5) "Being really successful" in Big Law means making partner. Very, very few people make partner, and if you are telling firms that you want to be at a place where you can make partner, you are making a huge mistake. Firms look at incoming associates not as future partners, but as drones who can crank hours for 8 years. Your language about "over achieving" at a Big Law firm to put food on the table is more than a little weird—you've never worked as an associate at a big firm, you have no idea what the work is really like, yet you assume that you will over achieve based on what, doing well in law school? This is a dangerous attitude to carry into an interview room, even if you think you are hiding it really well.

6) I have a hunch that whatever "slight handicap" you have is not responsible for your perceived lack of callbacks. Almost everyone going into an interview has a "handicap" of one kind or another, meaning something they wish they could change about themselves but can't. All we can do is the best we can do, but if you go into an interview thinking "my slight handicap is going to screw me," then you may be projecting that to the interviewer. After a lifetime of wrestling with my own "handicap," my approach in interviews and in life is to go in thinking, "my handicap makes me stronger in other ways."

This is a stronger mindset. Whether it's correct or not, it is objectively more statistically likely to produce a beneficial outcome. Thank you, Mr. F.