BC/BU OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'll chime in on a few points. Stats: top 10% on law review @ BC/BU.

. . . In NY, the only people I know who got offers there were kids with pretty good ties to NY (as much as this board says NY ties don't matter much). This may just because a lot of the BC/BU kids have pretty Boston-heavy resumes, which probably scares off a lot of employers when combined with going to law school there. I didn't interview in NY, but I know someone who did, and he mentioned that he was getting the treatment on "Why NY?" Keep in mind, he was born and raised in Boston and loves the city, so employers must have picked up on it.

I found NY ties not to matter too much, but it may have been because I'm from the western U.S. and could equate both Boston and New York as the "East Coast" from my perspective. Before discounting my results as being just from grades/law review, consider that I got around nine screeners at the NYC fair, but six of those were alternates. With no cover letters involved (just resume/transcript), most would assume a top 10%er would get more preselects. Perhaps the preselect process is where my non-East Coast resume hurt me, rather than in interviews themselves.

For the NYC fair, my screener-to-callback conversion ratio was 33% (2/3 preselects, 1/6 alternates). My callback-to-offer conversion ratio on the two callbacks I did was 50%.

For anyone reading this in the future, do the NYC fair even if you have no desire to live or work there. For a total trip cost of ~$100-150 (bus, hotel, food), much cheaper if you can crash on a couch, you get lots of worthwhile interviewing experience before OCI starts the following week. There are plenty of great firms that attend, and having a job in NY is better than nothing if things don't work out how you plan at OCI.

To give you an idea of how OCI goes, kids in the top 10% and LR get about 25 OCI interviews. Those same people can easily pick up another 10 in the NYC off campus program, and maybe a few more in DC (not really sure on DC). So you can easily get about 25-40 screeners at the top of the class. As you go down the class rank, those numbers go down. Anecdotally, I know one person top 35% who basically got no OCI interviews (though he was K-JD with no Boston ties) and another person at median (with some WE and Boston ties) and he got like 3-4 interviews, though only one was biglaw, and the others were more midlaw. Also know other person at below median with good WE who picked up 2 offers and got like 10 interviews.

Grades will get you screeners no doubt. If you have top of the class grades, your on campus process will be busy. As far as converting those to callbacks and offers, you just have to nail interviews. Good WE definitely helps a lot in being able to sell yourself in interviews, so I think that's why a lot of people have better results with WE. But many K-JDs got offers by being very personable and conversational/likeable and being able to sell themselves in other ways.

Instead of the estimated 25 OCI interviews, I got about 10 preselects and a few alternates that didn't convert. Out of those 10 preselects, three were from NY/DE and I did not get bites at Ropes, Wilmer, or Bingham. I would guess that people similarly situated to me got anywhere from 50-100+% more preselects than I did. A resume drop with recruiters got me slots after 5pm with Latham and Ropes, but neither of those converted to callbacks.

I agree with the claim regarding the importance of good interviewing. Initially, I was concerned to have a relatively "low" number of screeners, but interviewing saved me I guess. I know for a fact that doing the NYC fair helped me refine my interviewing skills enough to make a significant difference in my results at OCI. For firms' Boston offices, my screener-to-callback conversion ratio was 55%, and my callback-to-offer conversion ratio was 80%.

All in all, I feel extremely blessed and am very grateful for how things worked out. Despite my placement in the class, I also mass-mailed like crazy in August before OCI because I figured nothing was a given. I have friends that are great writers, top 33%, secondary journal, etc. that didn't snag many interviews, much less an offer. It seems pretty brutal out there... Best of luck to those still looking!

[Anonymous User]

If top 10% + Law review people are struggling to even get callbacks/offers at Ropes/Wilmer then who on earth is getting Boston offers at all?? I find it absolutely shocking that top 10%+LR is having a harder time than below median at HLS with top firms in Boston. Is this really even close to representative?

[Anonymous User]

BC 1L here, absolutely terror-stricken from this thread, lol. Anyway, did any Philly employers come to BC's OCI? Did any of you do the Philly off-campus interview program or know the outcome of people who did? (Btw, I do have strong "ties", as in grew up and did K-12 there, WE etc.)

Best of luck to the folks still hanging!

[Anonymous User]

I'm a top 10% + LR type going to a big Boston-based firm in SF/SV. I couldn't believe how difficult getting a job in SF/SV was, despite being from there and having work experience. If you're a Californian at BC/BU, I'd recommend looking into transferring because your options are extremely limited. Things worked out for me, but I submitted 40 applications and had only three callbacks in SF.

As for Philly employers, I don't remember seeing a whole lot, but some "one firm" firms (e.g. Jones Day) interview for all their cities. I don't remember Morgan Lewis or anything interviewing at my school, and they are one of the big Philly firms.

[Anonymous User]

BC 1l above - I don't think there were many "Philly" firms at OCI (Dechert was, but I can't remember if they were interviewing only for Boston or not). Definitely do the Philly program and mass mail/network if you work there over the summer. I know people from PA at BC with good stats who struck out in Boston but did pretty well in Philly.

[JusticeHarlan]

BC 1l above - I don't think there were many "Philly" firms at OCI (Dechert was, but I can't remember if they were interviewing only for Boston or not). Definitely do the Philly program and mass mail/network if you work there over the summer. I know people from PA at BC with good stats who struck out in Boston but did pretty well in Philly.

I can think of two people my year (current 3Ls) who worked for non-Boston (but also non-Philly) Dechert offices. Don't know if that helps much, but at least doesn't seem to be Boston only.

[Blindmelon]

If top 10% + Law review people are struggling to even get callbacks/offers at Ropes/Wilmer then who on earth is getting Boston offers at all?? I find it absolutely shocking that top 10%+LR is having a harder time than below median at HLS with top firms in Boston. Is this really even close to representative?

At BU, top 10% was basically an auto-call back at Ropes. Check Wilmer's website, there are BU/BC people that didn't hit top 1/3rd. You can't quantify grades/journal with likeliness of getting an offer in Boston. Soft factors are much more important than people give credit for.

[Anonymous User]

If top 10% + Law review people are struggling to even get callbacks/offers at Ropes/Wilmer then who on earth is getting Boston offers at all?? I find it absolutely shocking that top 10%+LR is having a harder time than below median at HLS with top firms in Boston. Is this really even close to representative?

At BU, top 10% was basically an auto-call back at Ropes. Check Wilmer's website, there are BU/BC people that didn't hit top 1/3rd. You can't quantify grades/journal with likeliness of getting an offer in Boston. Soft factors are much more important than people give credit for.

In past years, top 10% was pretty close to auto offer at Ropes for BC kids. It wasn't true this year (I think they called back 14 BC kids and gave offers to 4), whereas last year they called back 16 and gave 14 offers. Ropes decreased class size really hurt the top 10% (though, not like they didn't get offers elsewhere)

I know of people around median with no journals who are at Wilmer this summer. Wilmer has the rep of being a grade snob, but I completely disagree. They love awesome work experience. I know some top of the class people, but they also have really great softs

[Anonymous User]

In past years, top 10% was pretty close to auto offer at Ropes for BC kids. It wasn't true this year (I think they called back 14 BC kids and gave offers to 4), whereas last year they called back 16 and gave 14 offers. Ropes decreased class size really hurt the top 10% (though, not like they didn't get offers elsewhere)

I don't think those numbers were true or are right for last year - but do you know how many accepted the offers last year/this year?

[Anonymous User]

In past years, top 10% was pretty close to auto offer at Ropes for BC kids. It wasn't true this year (I think they called back 14 BC kids and gave offers to 4), whereas last year they called back 16 and gave 14 offers. Ropes decreased class size really hurt the top 10% (though, not like they didn't get offers elsewhere)

I don't think those numbers were true or are right for last year - but do you know how many accepted the offers last year/this year?

Different anon here, but I'm pretty sure only 5 accepted last year (4 in Boston, 1 in NYC). I know at least that many people who turned them down. Don't know the total offers given, or any of the numbers for this year.

[Anonymous User]

In past years, top 10% was pretty close to auto offer at Ropes for BC kids. It wasn't true this year (I think they called back 14 BC kids and gave offers to 4), whereas last year they called back 16 and gave 14 offers. Ropes decreased class size really hurt the top 10% (though, not like they didn't get offers elsewhere)

I don't think those numbers were true or are right for last year - but do you know how many accepted the offers last year/this year?

Different anon here, but I'm pretty sure only 5 accepted last year (4 in Boston, 1 in NYC). I know at least that many people who turned them down. Don't know the total offers given, or any of the numbers for this year.

Last year, I think only 5-6 from BU accepted offers at Ropes. Don't know how many interviewed. This year, I'm guestimating that about 15 BU students showed up to the callback reception. I know of only 2 people (including myself) who have accepted offers at Ropes, but at non-Boston offices (there could be more). I do know of one other person who received an offer this year from a non-Boston Ropes office but declined. I should mention that at my non-Boston office, they still accepted the same number of students (i.e., there was no decrease relative to last year).

[Anonymous User]

In past years, top 10% was pretty close to auto offer at Ropes for BC kids. It wasn't true this year (I think they called back 14 BC kids and gave offers to 4), whereas last year they called back 16 and gave 14 offers. Ropes decreased class size really hurt the top 10% (though, not like they didn't get offers elsewhere)

I don't think those numbers were true or are right for last year - but do you know how many accepted the offers last year/this year?

Different anon here, but I'm pretty sure only 5 accepted last year (4 in Boston, 1 in NYC). I know at least that many people who turned them down. Don't know the total offers given, or any of the numbers for this year.

Last year, I think only 5-6 from BU accepted offers at Ropes. Don't know how many interviewed. This year, I'm guestimating that about 15 BU students showed up to the callback reception. I know of only 2 people (including myself) who have accepted offers at Ropes, but at non-Boston offices (there could be more). I do know of one other person who received an offer this year from a non-Boston Ropes office but declined. I should mention that at my non-Boston office, they still accepted the same number of students (i.e., there was no decrease relative to last year).

Both the callback and offer reception this year were almost entirely Harvard students plus a few people from each t-14 sprinkled in. Only ran into a few BU/BC people. The one I actually spoke with was looking at the NYC office and it sounded like he was going elsewhere. It definitely seemed like less BU/BC students than usual. I ended my recruitment process crazy early so I cant be sure how things shook out at the end. I know that by mid-September there was already a double digit number of HLS students going to Ropes offices.

[Anonymous User]

Last year, I think only 5-6 from BU accepted offers at Ropes. Don't know how many interviewed. This year, I'm guestimating that about 15 BU students showed up to the callback reception. I know of only 2 people (including myself) who have accepted offers at Ropes, but at non-Boston offices (there could be more). I do know of one other person who received an offer this year from a non-Boston Ropes office but declined. I should mention that at my non-Boston office, they still accepted the same number of students (i.e., there was no decrease relative to last year).[/quote]

Both the callback and offer reception this year were almost entirely Harvard students plus a few people from each t-14 sprinkled in. Only ran into a few BU/BC people. The one I actually spoke with was looking at the NYC office and it sounded like he was going elsewhere. It definitely seemed like less BU/BC students than usual. I ended my recruitment process crazy early so I cant be sure how things shook out at the end. I know that by mid-September there was already a double digit number of HLS students going to Ropes offices.[/quote]

FWIW I know of at least 1 BC person going to Ropes in Boston and another to NYC, small sample but still.

[Anonymous User]

My impression is that OCI was worse than last year.

As a previous poster said, the huge Ropes cut made a big impact. Most of the firms where I did callbacks have small class sizes to begin with but said they were taking even fewer people than last year. 2 fewer positions per firm might not seem like a lot, but when you multiply that out over 10 or 12 firms of a similar size it certainly adds up. I think BU and BC have placed about 25% of grads in NLJ 250 firms in the last few years. I expect to see those numbers drop a few percentage points for the classes of 2014, unless we get really lucky and have a strong 3L OCI next year.

Bottom line: I feel like I would have been better off financially working as a paralegal than going to law school. My starting salary probably won't be much higher at whatever job I manage to land and the amount of debt I will have when I graduate gives me trouble sleeping at night.

I could not disagree more. I think BU did much better this year than last year. There are people without offers, but a good 40%, maybe more with a firm job for next summer. Note that I did not say Vault 100, many people got firm jobs in CT, NH, RI and Maine that pay decently for their location.

[Anonymous User]

Idk. I know of a lot of ppl at BU who did really well last year, LR, etc. who did not get offers. I would steer clear from BU. Wish I had.

[AlanShore]

My impression is that OCI was worse than last year.

As a previous poster said, the huge Ropes cut made a big impact. Most of the firms where I did callbacks have small class sizes to begin with but said they were taking even fewer people than last year. 2 fewer positions per firm might not seem like a lot, but when you multiply that out over 10 or 12 firms of a similar size it certainly adds up. I think BU and BC have placed about 25% of grads in NLJ 250 firms in the last few years. I expect to see those numbers drop a few percentage points for the classes of 2014, unless we get really lucky and have a strong 3L OCI next year.

Bottom line: I feel like I would have been better off financially working as a paralegal than going to law school. My starting salary probably won't be much higher at whatever job I manage to land and the amount of debt I will have when I graduate gives me trouble sleeping at night.

I could not disagree more. I think BU did much better this year than last year. There are people without offers, but a good 40%, maybe more with a firm job for next summer. Note that I did not say Vault 100, many people got firm jobs in CT, NH, RI and Maine that pay decently for their location.

Did these non-vault jobs come through OCI or other ways (networking/career fairs/postings)?

[Anonymous User]

Idk. I know of a lot of ppl at BU who did really well last year, LR, etc. who did not get offers. I would steer clear from BU. Wish I had.

Myself and my friends did well (like 60% of the people I'm close with got biglaw, but small sample)-- I know the people that got it did pretty well grades-wise, but don't know exactly how well-- I think it's really hard to tell how the school did job-wise overall, because everyone only talks about it in small groups. I do know a couple people with good grades and/or LR that don't have anything though.

I think personality and/or WE and/or ties were just as important (if not more) than grades if you're in the top 1/3 or so.

[Anonymous User]

Idk. I know of a lot of ppl at BU who did really well last year, LR, etc. who did not get offers. I would steer clear from BU. Wish I had.

Myself and my friends did well (like 60% of the people I'm close with got biglaw, but small sample)-- I know the people that got it did pretty well grades-wise, but don't know exactly how well-- I think it's really hard to tell how the school did job-wise overall, because everyone only talks about it in small groups. I do know a couple people with good grades and/or LR that don't have anything though.

I think personality and/or WE and/or ties were just as important (if not more) than grades if you're in the top 1/3 or so.

I agree with this. Out of people's groups of friends, it just seems like in a random group, at least half the people that wanted firm jobs got them. I know not everyone did. I know top 15% and/or Law Review students that do not have a firm job at this time.

But, I would add as a caveat that a firm job is not really guaranteed if you have an awesome GPA or an awesome personality or awesome pre-law school work experience. It is pretty must the trinity if you score high on all three of these fronts, or really high on two of them. I will say I know no one without a job that I would say would meet all three of those factors. None.

As some one mentioned earlier, there are people without jobs, there is no sugar coating that. But, I think it would be an outright lie and misrepresentation to say that BU Law students got slaughtered this year in comparison to last year. That is simply not true.

[Anonymous User]

2L at BU. Does it strike anyone else as baffling that the CDO does not employ someone to collect, analyze, and report hiring data (e.g., how the 2L class fared at OCI)? The school should maintain a digital repository for this kind of data and it should be accessible - in real time, as it's being compiled - to the student body. Why encourage all this speculation?

FWIW, I'm with the folks above who believe the 2L class at BU fared better this year at OCI relative to last year. Unfortunately, I have nothing but anecdotal information with which to support that belief. For shame, BU.

[Anonymous User]

2L at BU. Does it strike anyone else as baffling that the CDO does not employ someone to collect, analyze, and report hiring data (e.g., how the 2L class fared at OCI)? The school should maintain a digital repository for this kind of data and it should be accessible - in real time, as it's being compiled - to the student body. Why encourage all this speculation?

FWIW, I'm with the folks above who believe the 2L class at BU fared better this year at OCI relative to last year. Unfortunately, I have nothing but anecdotal information with which to support that belief. For shame, BU.

I have thought this multiple times, including once today. If I had to guess, it's that they don't want to depress people, as a number of people still don't know what they are doing this upcoming summer. It might be rubbing it in.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe for some reason BU folks are doing better than last year, but I don't think it is that way at BC (which, if I'm remembering correctly, has ranked slightly higher than BU on the list of schools sending grads to NLJ 250 firms in the last couple of years). Obviously it's difficult to say one way or the other without any objective data.

Or, maybe I am just jaded because I don't have a biglaw job. Seriously sucks.

[jhett]

2L at BU. Does it strike anyone else as baffling that the CDO does not employ someone to collect, analyze, and report hiring data (e.g., how the 2L class fared at OCI)? The school should maintain a digital repository for this kind of data and it should be accessible - in real time, as it's being compiled - to the student body. Why encourage all this speculation?

FWIW, I'm with the folks above who believe the 2L class at BU fared better this year at OCI relative to last year. Unfortunately, I have nothing but anecdotal information with which to support that belief. For shame, BU.

I have thought this multiple times, including once today. If I had to guess, it's that they don't want to depress people, as a number of people still don't know what they are doing this upcoming summer. It might be rubbing it in.

They used to. I have a copy given to me by the CDO when I was at BU (a few years ago now). Not sure why they don't anymore - perhaps the numbers are too depressing.

[Anonymous User]

I recall asking the CDO (at BU) back in like July why they don't collect this information. I think their rationale was that Biglaw jobs had become so sporadic that the data wouldn't tell much. I personally find that answer unpersuasive but that was the answer I was given back then.

I know schools such as Fordham and GW, which are similarly ranked but do slightly better in biglaw placement, definitely collect their information and give it out to students. Someone should really encourage the CDO to do this at BU as well.

[WanderingPondering]

Hate to do this to you guys, but as a 0L looking at both schools I have to ask if there seems to be a clear leader between bu/BC in big firm jobs this year?

From skimming through the thread, it looks like you need to be top 25% to have a decent shot. Accurate?

[Anonymous User]

From skimming through the thread, it looks like you need to be top 25% to have a decent shot. Accurate?

Pretty much. I was top 1/3 and LR and ended up with very few interviews and no offers.