Summer Associates 2014: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences... Forum

[Danger Zone]

Did anyone else notice like I did that the percentage of those that picked "I love this Job" has dropped almost 10% since this survey was started?

I don't understand why. This is such an awesome job.

Not all of is are having chill 9-5 summers. I've gotten home only to be called back 5 minutes later, have been told to skip lunches, work weekends, etc. Also, there's a lot of anxiety--I don't know what I'm doing and my future depends on it.

That said, I still love it.

Whoa buddy, it's more like 9-6:30

[Nelson]

.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone else notice like I did that the percentage of those that picked "I love this Job" has dropped almost 10% since this survey was started?

I don't understand why. This is such an awesome job.

Not all of is are having chill 9-5 summers. I've gotten home only to be called back 5 minutes later, have been told to skip lunches, work weekends, etc. Also, there's a lot of anxiety--I don't know what I'm doing and my future depends on it.

From what you say, I think maybe we're at the same firm. Do you have a 5th-year associate riding you too? Still, even loaded with work, consider myself part of the vast majority, though.

If you post non-anon, I'll PM you.

[sap]

Did anyone else notice like I did that the percentage of those that picked "I love this Job" has dropped almost 10% since this survey was started?

I don't understand why. This is such an awesome job.

Not all of is are having chill 9-5 summers. I've gotten home only to be called back 5 minutes later, have been told to skip lunches, work weekends, etc. Also, there's a lot of anxiety--I don't know what I'm doing and my future depends on it.

That said, I still love it.[/quote]

I still love it. Also, I still love how much alcohol (which my phone autocorrects to Stockholm) they feed us. And how much for they feed us. Maybe just how much they feed us.

[Anonymous User]

Posting anon because I know another summer at my firm knows my TLS name.

I hate this firm. I cannot explain how much I hate it. I want to quit. I have a clerkship lined up and I'm splitting my summer and I'm so grateful for both of those facts every day.

It feels so good to say that somewhere after twelve hours of smiling and chatting and small talk every day.

I do love the work though. A lot.

[echooo23]

Posting anon because I know another summer at my firm knows my TLS name.

I hate this firm. I cannot explain how much I hate it. I want to quit. I have a clerkship lined up and I'm splitting my summer and I'm so grateful for both of those facts every day.

It feels so good to say that somewhere after twelve hours of smiling and chatting and small talk every day.

I do love the work though. A lot.

What do you hate about the firm?

[Anonymous User]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

[Anonymous User]

That is so so true. If your bosses and workmates are considerate, even work that you'd normally not like, is bearable. If they're assholes, they sour your entire work experience even if that's your favorite practice area.

Bottom line: Firms don't suck, people do.

[Jchance]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

+1. So true, thus not all offers are equal.

[Old Gregg]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

Of all the posts in this thread, this is clearly one of the most mature and well thought out. I'm glad you arrived at this conclusion, and it should really be stickied at the top.

[twenty 8]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

+1. So true, thus not all offers are equal.

Some equal partners are more equal than others ..........

[Tiago Splitter]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

I'm focused more on the midlevels and seniors (and in some cases juniors) who I will be working for when things get real a year and a half from now. The partners matter too, but there's simply less day to day interaction with them. I'm also at a firm that requires you to choose a practice area to start in, so it's more about maximizing the number of cool people rather than completely eliminating any bad ones. Of course, if you're at a true free market firm like some posting in this thread the calculus is probably a little different.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't met any unbearable people so far, but personalities differ. It can suck to get put on an assignment that nobody can bill other than summers, because it will be tough to get instructions and feedback as you go. I guess the one thing is at my firm 10 hr days are norms with 12-13 typical a few nights a week + the events. The work is generally interesting, but I will say it makes it hard to date multiple people, because humans be needy.

[TooOld4This]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

I'm focused more on the midlevels and seniors (and in some cases juniors) who I will be working for when things get real a year and a half from now. The partners matter too, but there's simply less day to day interaction with them. I'm also at a firm that requires you to choose a practice area to start in, so it's more about maximizing the number of cool people rather than completely eliminating any bad ones. Of course, if you're at a true free market firm like some posting in this thread the calculus is probably a little different.

This is not the correct response.

By the time you show up to work for real, chances are many of the people you worked with this summer will have left or are actively looking to leave. To the degree that the seniors and mid-levels reflect the tone that the partners set, it is fine to keep an eye on them. But really, you want to know what the partners are like. Good associates can get stuck with bad partners, but they generally won't stay there. They will either find a partner in the firm to rescue them or they will leave for greener pastures as soon as they are able.

[Tiago Splitter]

Yeah those are good points. I guess the problem is that a great group of partners won't save you if the people who you actually deal with suck. Unfortunately there's really no way to ensure anything 15 months out.

[TooOld4This]

Yeah those are good points. I guess the problem is that a great group of partners won't save you if the people who you actually deal with suck. Unfortunately there's really no way to ensure anything 15 months out.

They are actually your best hope. You don't know who will still be there from the associate ranks when you join. Partner moves are much more rare. And if you find a partner who takes an interest in you, you will be more likely to be staffed on the good projects with the good associates.

Now if a group has all terrible associates, that is a sign that the partners aren't great managers. But I would make sure you like the partners in the group. Good associates can't save you from bad partners.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Yeah those are good points. I guess the problem is that a great group of partners won't save you if the people who you actually deal with suck. Unfortunately there's really no way to ensure anything 15 months out.

They are actually your best hope. You don't know who will still be there from the associate ranks when you join. Partner moves are much more rare. And if you find a partner who takes an interest in you, you will be more likely to be staffed on the good projects with the good associates.

Now if a group has all terrible associates, that is a sign that the partners aren't great managers. But I would make sure you like the partners in the group. Good associates can't save you from bad partners.

I'd add that, behind many an anal senior associate is a slavedriving partner. I've worked under senior associates who I thought were really obnoxious and later realized they were actually doing their best to shield me from an even more demanding partner.

[Old Gregg]

If you have any intention of staying at your firm long term, you should like the partners at the firm that you would some day work with.

[Anonymous User]

Endless revisions on a project and I'm really starting to feel like I let the associate down on this. Most of it is stuff I couldn't have known to do beforehand but some of it is me being an idiot. Of course even though my other work has gotten good feedback I'm terrified I'm getting no offered in 6 weeks. Talk me down, TLS?

[Anonymous User]

Endless revisions on a project and I'm really starting to feel like I let the associate down on this. Most of it is stuff I couldn't have known to do beforehand but some of it is me being an idiot. Of course even though my other work has gotten good feedback I'm terrified I'm getting no offered in 6 weeks. Talk me down, TLS?

Dude, I hear you. But I['m comforted by the belief that you're not alone. I think that by now, most of us have let down at least one associate in a rotation. I've been given assignments by 3 associates in this rotation, and I'm sure that I haven't met up to the expectations of one of them, a gunner. Let's just hope their expectations are as low.

[KD35]

Endless revisions on a project and I'm really starting to feel like I let the associate down on this. Most of it is stuff I couldn't have known to do beforehand but some of it is me being an idiot. Of course even though my other work has gotten good feedback I'm terrified I'm getting no offered in 6 weeks. Talk me down, TLS?

They don't expect perfection from a 2L SA. None of the associates or partners have likely gotten where they are today without any mistakes or transitioning period whatsoever.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone else notice like I did that the percentage of those that picked "I love this Job" has dropped almost 10% since this survey was started?

I don't understand why. This is such an awesome job.

Not all of us think so, even those who have fairly decent hours.

[Anonymous User]

Endless revisions on a project and I'm really starting to feel like I let the associate down on this. Most of it is stuff I couldn't have known to do beforehand but some of it is me being an idiot. Of course even though my other work has gotten good feedback I'm terrified I'm getting no offered in 6 weeks. Talk me down, TLS?

I was working on something that went through 7 revisions and felt the same way. Turned out they just like fine tuning everything. The partner called me after the project to say how great the doc was.

[El Pollito]

Endless revisions on a project and I'm really starting to feel like I let the associate down on this. Most of it is stuff I couldn't have known to do beforehand but some of it is me being an idiot. Of course even though my other work has gotten good feedback I'm terrified I'm getting no offered in 6 weeks. Talk me down, TLS?

I was working on something that went through 7 revisions and felt the same way. Turned out they just like fine tuning everything. The partner called me after the project to say how great the doc was.

Yeah I wouldn't take lawyer nitpicking personally.

[toothbrush]

The main thing I've learned so far is the importance of working with partners you like, and click with so you can keep working with them again. I didn't realize the business model is basically like being a subcontractor for the partners, or in most cases a sub-subcontractor. You aren't working for a firm xx. You're working for people. Judging firms isn't really accurate, because every partner is different. There are merely some norms across each firm.

Of all the posts in this thread, this is clearly one of the most mature and well thought out. I'm glad you arrived at this conclusion, and it should really be stickied at the top.

I've seen this echoed many times on TLS. However, I wonder if knowing that fact can change anything. Particularly, if you work at a firm where you are assigned work/rotated (opposite of free market), is there anything you can do to choose to work with partners you like?