V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

I will be working for an ibank (GS/JPM) as an asset manager before I go to law school. I really want to do corporate litigation or M&A work. Is getting my CFA something that would make me more attractive to employers? Is there a big difference between working for the bank for a summer or for 2 years?

I'm not saying you shouldn't apply to law school. But please PM me before you decide to actually go. Because, well, you probably shouldn't.

I am the poster from above that had I-banking experience and a 1L SA spot at a V25 with grades below cut-off.

I am really interested in what your thoughts are on this topic. I made a similar move to the one the poster above me is planning. I can't tell if it will pay off yet but I can tell you I am much happier. I am sort of jaded because I went through the 2008 financial crisis and saw many of my friends get layed off and our bonus structures get cut in half. Still, I was one of the lucky ones. I still had a job and my firm didn't fail but things really aren't the same. The commission structures and lifestyles have changed.

I could talk about it for days but I really want to know what advice you would give to someone like him (it is probably too late for me).

[itbdvorm]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

probably not.

[itbdvorm]

How common is it for people to move up the "ladder" of firms? Say one starts his career at a V20 or V25 firm. Is it common for someone to leave that firm to make his way into a V10 or V5 firm? Or do people typically move down the "ladder" when they leave their first firm? Is this something people are even cognizant of once their careers begin?

it's not super-common, but it happens. it's a move you generally make in your first 3-4 years, if you think you're "outgrowing" your practice. but after that moves usually happen the other way...

[itbdvorm]

Hi itbdvorm,

I was wondering if you had any insight about the life of an associate in the technology transactions & licensing practice of a firm? Volatility of hours? Interesting work? Any opinions on that practice area? Thanks for taking questions!

don't really know. depends on firm. if it's transactional support stuff it's probably not bad

[itbdvorm]

I will be working for an ibank (GS/JPM) as an asset manager before I go to law school. I really want to do corporate litigation or M&A work. Is getting my CFA something that would make me more attractive to employers? Is there a big difference between working for the bank for a summer or for 2 years?

I'm not saying you shouldn't apply to law school. But please PM me before you decide to actually go. Because, well, you probably shouldn't.

I am the poster from above that had I-banking experience and a 1L SA spot at a V25 with grades below cut-off.

I am really interested in what your thoughts are on this topic. I made a similar move to the one the poster above me is planning. I can't tell if it will pay off yet but I can tell you I am much happier. I am sort of jaded because I went through the 2008 financial crisis and saw many of my friends get layed off and our bonus structures get cut in half. Still, I was one of the lucky ones. I still had a job and my firm didn't fail but things really aren't the same. The commission structures and lifestyles have changed.

I could talk about it for days but I really want to know what advice you would give to someone like him (it is probably too late for me).

all depends on why you're going. if you've done it for a few years and you truly can't stand it, that's one thing. but why are you going to law school to a biglaw path? it's not like "oh, sweet, this is going to be so nice and easy." but there are further paths down that route that could get better/more interesting. law school is a little bit of a "reset" of your career at that point...

[Anonymous User]

What advice if any do you have for Dewey SA's and 3Ls?

[roranoa]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

probably not.

Why not?

[Anonymous User]

What advice if any do you have for Dewey SA's and 3Ls?

Do you think there will be a big effect on those at the associate level/those entering?

[redbullvodka]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

probably not.

Why not?

+1 also curious about your answer.

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

probably not.

Why not?

+1 also curious about your answer.

Because you have 3 people yelling at you during the day (the client, your boss, and opposing counsel) instead of just 1 person (boss) like most other professions.

[Anonymous User]

If you had paid off your debt in the first 2 years, would you still be doing what you're doing?

[Anonymous User]

What advice if any do you have for Dewey SA's and 3Ls?

Also very interested in this. Is there any way to hook up with another firm at this point other than knowing the hiring partner?

[roranoa]

Because you have 3 people yelling at you during the day (the client, your boss, and opposing counsel) instead of just 1 person (boss) like most other professions.

Wow!!!This answer is super clever because people don't like getting yelled at. Am I right?

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Because you have 3 people yelling at you during the day (the client, your boss, and opposing counsel) instead of just 1 person (boss) like most other professions.

Wow!!!This answer is super clever because people don't like getting yelled at. Am I right?

Also, you have to work with guys like this ^

[fumagalli]

If you work in corporate law, can you eventually gain enough insight that one can start his/her own business? Or at least do corporate lawyers get a good understanding of how business works through their work?

[itbdvorm]

What advice if any do you have for Dewey SA's and 3Ls?

Do you think there will be a big effect on those at the associate level/those entering?

SA's - do as good a job as you can, try to bond w/partners, possibly re-interview in the fall.

3Ls - hopefully you were memorable in a positive way to important partners during your summer. Make sure they pay you any upfront payments (bar fees, etc.).

But overall - pray, and cross your fingers - never easy to tell from outside what's going on w/a firm.

[itbdvorm]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

probably not.

Why not?

Well - at the end of the day, you're ultimately an agent for someone else. You're not "the guy", at best you're the guy behind the guy. I don't despise my job like some other folks. But nor do I think it's a dream profession for pretty much anyone. It would all depend on what the person asking me's rationale for going into this profession was.

[itbdvorm]

If you had paid off your debt in the first 2 years, would you still be doing what you're doing?

Yes. But for a variety of reasons I don't really want to get into...

[itbdvorm]

If you work in corporate law, can you eventually gain enough insight that one can start his/her own business? Or at least do corporate lawyers get a good understanding of how business works through their work?

I think probably, though other "business skills" are not really going to be part of your job. But sure, and people have done it, to varying degrees of success.

[Anonymous User]

Can't say my firm's cutoff to be specific but it's something like top half at YHS, top third at CCN, and further tightening as you go...but I do think we're on the tighter side of firms

If it is top third at CCN, then PBV must be around top 20/25. . . that is less than cheerful news. Looks like we'll need a compelling LOR from whomever we work for during 1L summer. . . and then hope for the best.

Are there signs that this upturn in the economy might loosen the reins a bit? In other words, before the recession how far down the T-14 (or Tier 1) rankings could one go before median ousted them from contention? Thanks.

I'm also wondering what the cutoff must look like at PMBV, especially at Michigan.

Itbdvorm, I know you are answering many questions and perhaps this one was overlooked. Love to hear your view on this.

[itbdvorm]

Can't say my firm's cutoff to be specific but it's something like top half at YHS, top third at CCN, and further tightening as you go...but I do think we're on the tighter side of firms

If it is top third at CCN, then PBV must be around top 20/25. . . that is less than cheerful news. Looks like we'll need a compelling LOR from whomever we work for during 1L summer. . . and then hope for the best.

Are there signs that this upturn in the economy might loosen the reins a bit? In other words, before the recession how far down the T-14 (or Tier 1) rankings could one go before median ousted them from contention? Thanks.

I'm also wondering what the cutoff must look like at PMBV, especially at Michigan.

Itbdvorm, I know you are answering many questions and perhaps this one was overlooked. Love to hear your view on this.

I'm not sure what the question is. Not sure of grade specifics / cut-offs. For us median isn't going to cut it at most places...

[rosemerry]

I think the above posters are asking.

if its top third at CCN, is there a noticeable difference in class percentile that you have to be at, if you are in Penn and Michigan since they are very almost near touching distance with NYU.

[itbdvorm]

I think the above posters are asking.

if its top third at CCN, is there a noticeable difference in class percentile that you have to be at, if you are in Penn and Michigan since they are very almost near touching distance with NYU.

I honestly don't know specifics. But I'd bet the cut for NYU is closer to Columbia than to Penn

[Anonymous User]

I think the above posters are asking.

if its top third at CCN, is there a noticeable difference in class percentile that you have to be at, if you are in Penn and Michigan since they are very almost near touching distance with NYU.

2012 USNWR

CLS 94
Chicago 93
NYU 92




Boalt 87
Penn 87
UVA 87
Michigan 86

Not sure I'd say "very almost near touching distance." Neither would DPW with their 23 NYU 2012 SAs and 2 from Penn.

[Anonymous User]

I think the above posters are asking.

if its top third at CCN, is there a noticeable difference in class percentile that you have to be at, if you are in Penn and Michigan since they are very almost near touching distance with NYU.

2012 USNWR

CLS 94
Chicago 93
NYU 92




Boalt 87
Penn 87
UVA 87
Michigan 86

Not sure I'd say "very almost near touching distance." Neither would DPW with their 23 NYU 2012 SAs and 2 from Penn.

If you're going to use USNWR as a proxy, wouldn't you want to use reputation scores (even though those are pretty flawed, too.)? That said, I don't disagree with the overall statement.