Fall bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is the lesson we’ve all learned here that Cravath actually is still the market leader?

People are being so dramatic. Cravath isn't a market leader because they didn't pay a bonus that not only very few firms paid, but did so a couple months before year-end bonuses? Let's all calm down on being so dramatic until year-end bonus announcements come. Many places have come out and said they will be at least last years, there is nothing to say that Cravath and K&E (the two hated on the most here) won't have bonuses be last year + amount of special bonuses...or more. K&E has been pretty open about having a better year than last and that they will make up for not paying early. Sure, $ now is better than later, but I think "NY market bonus" will be higher this year because of the special bonuses and then places like DPW/Milbank are going to have to come out and say "hey our year end is less but we already paid the rest". It will all work itself out. The best firms are not going to take a prestige hit because of 40k per associate or less.

[plantcoveredbuilding]

there is nothing to say that Cravath and K&E (the two hated on the most here) won't have bonuses be last year + amount of special bonuses...or more.

It's possible but I doubt it. There's no rational reason to incur the negative press associated with not paying fall bonuses, only to pay that exact amount a few months later. I would be shocked if CSM and Kirkland paid standard EOY + special fall at the end of year.

You might be right though. We'll see.

[Ultramar vistas]

there is nothing to say that Cravath and K&E (the two hated on the most here) won't have bonuses be last year + amount of special bonuses...or more.

It's possible but I doubt it. There's no rational reason to incur the negative press associated with not paying fall bonuses, only to pay that exact amount a few months later. I would be shocked if CSM and Kirkland paid standard EOY + special fall at the end of year.

You might be right though. We'll see.

Maybe they sufficiently naive not to realize that an email explicitly stating that they would take into account fall bonuses in the winter bonuses would send the few 1Ls left on this forum into a whirlwind of histrionics and a series of posts diagnosing the cash flow problems of the V10?

[ConfusedNYer]

Are Milbank and Freshfields considered peer firms with Cleary, Debevoise, etc., for recruitment at T14s?

I think Milbank is, but definitely not Freshfields

Freshfields is very weird and I'd hesitate to draw any comparison with other large firms - it's functionally a massive global firm, but because it's US presence is so small and it's summer class is so small (I think like under 30 when I was going through OCI) it's semi-competitive to get into and the law students who summer there tend to specifically target it. As a result it punches above its weight (particularly at Harvard, not sure if it's still the case but in the past its summer class has been like 25-33% from Harvard.)

But you really tend to see two groups of people going there from top schools (with overlap between the two): (a) people who are really into international arbitration; and (b) people who are considering practicing outside the U.S. medium/long term.

You basically end up with a huge portion of law students having no idea what Freshfields even is and then a small group who really want to go there and target it going into OCI.

Again, the above could be a few years out of date.

[plantcoveredbuilding]

Maybe they sufficiently naive not to realize that an email explicitly stating that they would take into account fall bonuses in the winter bonuses would send the few 1Ls left on this forum into a whirlwind of histrionics and a series of posts diagnosing the cash flow problems of the V10?

No serious person thinks CSM and Kirkland have cash flow problems. They're the richest partners in biglaw. Their lives wouldn't change one bit as a result of paying these bonuses.

I think they're the a8(*oles everyone thought they were, and that they love fu(&ing associates over. These two firms work associates harder than other firms (which already cuts effective hourly pay) and now they killed a burgeoning movement to pay fall bonuses.

We'll see in a few months if I'm wrong.

[Anonymous User]

No bonus for PW... but will true up at end of year.

[Anonymous User]

PW committed to taking the special bonuses into account in December. Also said there will be special comp for the staff which is great

[Anonymous User]

PW committed to taking the special bonuses into account in December. Also said there will be special comp for the staff which is great

Did they explain why?

What I'm worried about is theres another economic crash due to a second wave or the election and firms weasel out of the true up. I guess in that case there's also the possibility that firms that have already paid fall bonuses will reduce the end of year bonuses

[Anonymous User]

Here's the email:

Special “Pandemic” Bonuses
Over the past couple of weeks, some of our peer firms have announced special “pandemic” bonuses, while others have announced that they would not pay such bonuses. We have considered whether to distribute such bonuses, in advance of our regular year-end bonuses. After consulting with the Associates Committee and our partners and after hearing from several of our clients, I have concluded that announcing such a bonus now would not be appropriate. So many of our clients and others across our community are experiencing unprecedented economic trauma, including the shuttering of their businesses and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, as a direct result of this pandemic. Providing a special cash reward in direct response to the pandemic does not feel right at this time. That said, please be assured that we will recognize your extraordinary contributions in December and we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms. In addition, we believe it is very important this year to recognize and reward our extraordinary staff, whose heroic efforts during this pandemic have allowed the firm to remain fully operational and have enabled all of us to do our jobs and to serve our clients and communities seamlessly and without interruption.

[Joachim2017]

Here's the email:

Special “Pandemic” Bonuses
Over the past couple of weeks, some of our peer firms have announced special “pandemic” bonuses, while others have announced that they would not pay such bonuses. We have considered whether to distribute such bonuses, in advance of our regular year-end bonuses. After consulting with the Associates Committee and our partners and after hearing from several of our clients, I have concluded that announcing such a bonus now would not be appropriate. So many of our clients and others across our community are experiencing unprecedented economic trauma, including the shuttering of their businesses and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, as a direct result of this pandemic. Providing a special cash reward in direct response to the pandemic does not feel right at this time. That said, please be assured that we will recognize your extraordinary contributions in December and we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms. In addition, we believe it is very important this year to recognize and reward our extraordinary staff, whose heroic efforts during this pandemic have allowed the firm to remain fully operational and have enabled all of us to do our jobs and to serve our clients and communities seamlessly and without interruption.

Good on them to also compensate staff.

BUT, characterizing the fall bonus of other firms as "a reward in direct response to the pandemic" is a holier-than-thou bullshit move. It makes it sound like they're taking a swipe at other firms from some sort of moral high ground, when in reality they're just keeping more money in partner pockets right now and then paying it out later. I know PW likes to see itself as a progressive firm, but this kind of hypocritical "would not be appropriate" attempt to have it both ways is gross.

[Anonymous User]

Here's the email:

Special “Pandemic” Bonuses
Over the past couple of weeks, some of our peer firms have announced special “pandemic” bonuses, while others have announced that they would not pay such bonuses. We have considered whether to distribute such bonuses, in advance of our regular year-end bonuses. After consulting with the Associates Committee and our partners and after hearing from several of our clients, I have concluded that announcing such a bonus now would not be appropriate. So many of our clients and others across our community are experiencing unprecedented economic trauma, including the shuttering of their businesses and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, as a direct result of this pandemic. Providing a special cash reward in direct response to the pandemic does not feel right at this time. That said, please be assured that we will recognize your extraordinary contributions in December and we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms. In addition, we believe it is very important this year to recognize and reward our extraordinary staff, whose heroic efforts during this pandemic have allowed the firm to remain fully operational and have enabled all of us to do our jobs and to serve our clients and communities seamlessly and without interruption.

Good on them to also compensate staff.

BUT, characterizing the fall bonus of other firms as "a reward in direct response to the pandemic" is a holier-than-thou bullshit move. It makes it sound like they're taking a swipe at other firms from some sort of moral high ground, when in reality they're just keeping more money in partner pockets right now and then paying it out later. I know PW likes to see itself as a progressive firm, but this kind of hypocritical "would not be appropriate" attempt to have it both ways is gross.

Same PW associate. Agree the dig at other shops wasn't necessary but I appreciated that they addressed the bonus directly and didn't beat around the bush. Very classy to recognize the staff - a lot of them can't do their jobs remotely and have been coming into the office for weeks

[Dcc617]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

[jarofsoup]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

Lol two things. First, profits for partner lead to a draw and that connection is not so public. But yes the partners are getting rich and not making it rain. Second, if clients are suffering don’t pay for fancy counsel like PW. Its like our clients who are paying absurdly high legal fees and like $900 an hour for a third year will be upset.

[NoLongerALurker]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

^ Agree. Refuse to bootlick!

(That said, good on PW for at least communicating something...more than a lot of other firms can say)

[Anonymous User]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

How are they getting away with this messaging, its so absurd

[legalpotato]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

How are they getting away with this messaging, its so absurd

Agree - but it somehow makes sense to ppl as some ppl have repeated it on here unprompted. Maximum bootlicking: "It is immoral to pay your employees more at a time when everyone else is hurting; owners should keep it all."

But also agree at least PW was explicit in that it would true ppl up, much moreso than K&E.

[Ultramar vistas]

Assume they’re also giving back some of the firm’s profits, as it would be inappropriate for partners to be making record profits in this time, right? What’s that? Only inappropriate for associates to get extra money? Huh.

How are they getting away with this messaging, its so absurd

Agree - but it somehow makes sense to ppl as some ppl have repeated it on here unprompted. Maximum bootlicking: "It is immoral to pay your employees more at a time when everyone else is hurting; owners should keep it all."

But also agree at least PW was explicit in that it would true ppl up, much moreso than K&E.

What are you talking about? They each literally used the exact same language of “taking into account” special bonuses of peer firms. Neither was more or less explicit as to commitment.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Special “Pandemic” Bonuses
So many of our clients and others across our community are experiencing unprecedented economic trauma, including the shuttering of their businesses and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, as a direct result of this pandemic.

Won't someone think of Apollo's trauma?!?

Also, you're a law firm, you don't have a "community."

Providing a special cash reward in direct response to the pandemic does not feel right at this time.

$10k for first-years = Inappropriate special reward
$4.7M per partner = Ho-hum, entirely appropriate to keep


Dear Brad Karp and his moronic ilk: Next time you're considering sending claptrap like this, delete your draft and just blast out "Please see attached for your special bonuses" and include a video of you fingering your own asshole on a pile of hundreds. It would genuinely be less infuriating.

[Anonymous User]

I’m at a top litigation boutique and we have had zero info about bonuses. The partners told us exactly how much money they are saving every month from being out of the office (it’s a lot!). Every associate at the firm has an insane workload (everyone is constantly pulling full days on weekends at this point). Absolutely no lateral hiring, even though a number of mid levels and seniors have left over the past half a year. And they are pretending that fall bonuses do not exist. Fuck this industry.

[plantcoveredbuilding]

Special “Pandemic” Bonuses
So many of our clients and others across our community are experiencing unprecedented economic trauma, including the shuttering of their businesses and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs, as a direct result of this pandemic.

Won't someone think of Apollo's trauma?!?

Also, you're a law firm, you don't have a "community."

Providing a special cash reward in direct response to the pandemic does not feel right at this time.

$10k for first-years = Inappropriate special reward
$4.7M per partner = Ho-hum, entirely appropriate to keep


Dear Brad Karp and his moronic ilk: Next time you're considering sending claptrap like this, delete your draft and just blast out "Please see attached for your special bonuses" and include a video of you fingering your own asshole on a pile of hundreds. It would genuinely be less infuriating.

lol. This makes CSM and Kirkland's memos look good. At least they didn't try to guilt associates, "why aren't you thinking of the community and clients and client layoffs and all the suffering?! Have you no shame?"

[Anonymous User]

Not that anybody was waiting on us, but Fried Frank has announced "the Firm intends to make year-end 2020 bonus announcements in the normal course, with an announcement expected by the end of next month and bonus payments by the end of the calendar year." Also, thx for all your work on behalf of the partnership.

Staying silent would have been better, especially given 1) we all assumed this was the case anyway and had basically forgotten about the possibility of positive news these days; and 2) the prevailing topic of conversation the past couple of weeks has been how mind-numbingly crushing the workload has been.

Boo.

[Anonymous User]

I’m at a top litigation boutique and we have had zero info about bonuses. The partners told us exactly how much money they are saving every month from being out of the office (it’s a lot!). Every associate at the firm has an insane workload (everyone is constantly pulling full days on weekends at this point). Absolutely no lateral hiring, even though a number of mid levels and seniors have left over the past half a year. And they are pretending that fall bonuses do not exist. Fuck this industry.

Which one? I'm at a (Non-Hennigan) above-market boutique with crickets on Fall bonuses (although our base and year-end are higher than Cravath-scale).

[SGTslaughter]

Lol @ this insufferable bootlicking in the ATL article, this has to be someone from P,W recruiting. Seriously pathetic.

I’m not sure why fellow associates are so ‘angry,’ Brad clearly stated in his email: ‘we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms.’ That reads to me that the firm will ‘make us whole’ (i.e., bonus amounts will be the fall bonus + the market year end bonus) at year end. For a firm that hasn’t taken a step wrong during COVID, the racial justice crisis sweeping the nation or our political uncertainty, this seems like an over-reaction by some of my colleagues (or at least the ones you quoted). Do people not recall the beginning of the pandemic where we were fretting about layoffs or salary cuts and Brad pledged the firm would act in a manner that they could look back on and be proud? And how he clearly stated, multiple times, that the partners were committed to no layoffs, salary cuts or anything that would cause economic hardship? Because I remember all those things.

[Winter is Coming]

Lol @ this insufferable bootlicking in the ATL article, this has to be someone from P,W recruiting. Seriously pathetic.

I’m not sure why fellow associates are so ‘angry,’ Brad clearly stated in his email: ‘we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms.’ That reads to me that the firm will ‘make us whole’ (i.e., bonus amounts will be the fall bonus + the market year end bonus) at year end. For a firm that hasn’t taken a step wrong during COVID, the racial justice crisis sweeping the nation or our political uncertainty, this seems like an over-reaction by some of my colleagues (or at least the ones you quoted). Do people not recall the beginning of the pandemic where we were fretting about layoffs or salary cuts and Brad pledged the firm would act in a manner that they could look back on and be proud? And how he clearly stated, multiple times, that the partners were committed to no layoffs, salary cuts or anything that would cause economic hardship? Because I remember all those things.

Them using things like racial justice and political uncertainty is pretty wild as a justification for not paying bonuses at this time. If anything the insane events taking place are more of reason to pay now as opposed to don't worry we promise we will "make you whole" in four months when things could be considerable worse (or not!). But that is more of a reason people would feel a whole lot more comfortable now.

It's pretty shocking how openly dark of a turn many of these places have taken. It's not as if this isn't the way they have always operated, but they are much more open about where their priorities are and the business model of squeezing associates to death.

"The beatings will continue until morale improves" is funny as a way to describe this environment until they actually say it with a straight face.

[NoLongerALurker]

Lol @ this insufferable bootlicking in the ATL article, this has to be someone from P,W recruiting. Seriously pathetic.

I’m not sure why fellow associates are so ‘angry,’ Brad clearly stated in his email: ‘we pledge to retain our position as a market leader in compensation, taking into account any special bonuses paid by our peer firms.’ That reads to me that the firm will ‘make us whole’ (i.e., bonus amounts will be the fall bonus + the market year end bonus) at year end. For a firm that hasn’t taken a step wrong during COVID, the racial justice crisis sweeping the nation or our political uncertainty, this seems like an over-reaction by some of my colleagues (or at least the ones you quoted). Do people not recall the beginning of the pandemic where we were fretting about layoffs or salary cuts and Brad pledged the firm would act in a manner that they could look back on and be proud? And how he clearly stated, multiple times, that the partners were committed to no layoffs, salary cuts or anything that would cause economic hardship? Because I remember all those things.

Sounds to me like something Brad wrote.