New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

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First Offense

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by First Offense » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First year transactional associate (stub year). My biggest problem is that I am barely billing any time (I had one week where I billed 30 hours). I can go multiple days without work, despite asking people for assignments, and the same is true for other new associates in my practice group.

Here's to hoping that this miraculously changes in the start of the new billable year. I know I'm supposed to "enjoy" the down time while I have it, but it seems unlikely that something will magically happen at the stroke of midnight on January 1.
Had this happen quite a bit, and was told to enjoy it.

I should have listened. Now I'm getting buried.

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ArtistOfManliness

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by ArtistOfManliness » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:04 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
I feel like people forget that's 1/2 the purpose of this thread

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First year transactional associate (stub year). My biggest problem is that I am barely billing any time (I had one week where I billed 30 hours). I can go multiple days without work, despite asking people for assignments, and the same is true for other new associates in my practice group.

Here's to hoping that this miraculously changes in the start of the new billable year. I know I'm supposed to "enjoy" the down time while I have it, but it seems unlikely that something will magically happen at the stroke of midnight on January 1.
It's normal for it to be slow at times, and sometimes that includes when new associates start. Plenty of people do minimal work for months on end when they start.

It's hard not to feel anxious about it, but as long as you're looking for work there's not much you can do except wait.
Spend this time reading a hornbook or just reading about transactional law in general. For the first few months it seemed like I had more work than most first years combined - one even turned down work despite not having work at the time. You're inconsequential and fungible so people aren't really monitoring your workload, and it's on you to know your limits. You don't know your limits, because law school is really just a few weeks of intensity with a long cool off period. When first starting, assume you will burn out easily and don't hesitate to turn down work if you have any doubt that you're ready to bill a 300 hour month with no fuck ups. At some point, you will be able to work with that attorney again when your odds of fucking are much lower. In addition to a heightened risk of fucking up, you're also not learning much beyond the actual assignments you're doing unless you're being walked through the deal (which is rare). In 3 months, the person who was reading hornbooks and bloomberg law all day starts taking on work, knocks it out of the park and gets work over you every day of the week.

Nobody remembers whether you mentioned you had 2 other deals when you took their assignment or that you were in your stub year. All they remember is whether you fucked up. Although hours are important, you're not being judged based on how many hours you have but based on how many you're projected to have. In most cases, these go hand in hand, but not so much at your level. Going 0, 0, 75, 100, 250, 250 your first 6 months is infinitely better than 300, 300, 80, 100, 100, 100. This will be interpreted as, "Person A didn't get opportunities out of the gate, but is obviously better than Person B." During slow months, it's probably better to be on vacation than waiting for work, because your drop in hours won't be perceived to be indicative of merit. The main thing I wish I could do over is to really go out of my way to get to develop strong mentoring relationships with associates a few years above your class level. It is a huge advantage to be protected while your reputation is vulnerable - people are asking whether you're good, and the truth is that the more people you work with, the greater the risk. It's much better to work with the same small number of people until you know what you're doing.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by 5ky » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:13 pm

Nobody is going to care what the trend in your hours looks like. Things ebb and flow.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by zot1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:18 pm

dood wrote:you fucking n00bs, i had to spend all night rewriting a goddamn motion to transfer bc the first year on my team is incompetent.

WHY DONT YOU JUST ASK QUESTIONS??
They probably did but just got a bad answer from another TLSer :lol:

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Johann » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:37 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
know the partners you work for calendar/travel schedules. if there is a certain month they take off/easy, thats a good month for a long vacation. if they are traveling out of the office, thats a good day to "work" from home

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

JohannDeMann wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
know the partners you work for calendar/travel schedules. if there is a certain month they take off/easy, thats a good month for a long vacation. if they are traveling out of the office, thats a good day to "work" from home
The people on my teams travel so much that I couldn't probably be in the office like two and a half days a week. But our document systems are perilously slow from home. Once the technology is sufficiently improved that the home network is equal to the office network speed, can't imagine why I'd go in except for free lunch and meetings.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:50 pm

I've had to rewrite (not just revise) a memorandum in support of a motion (5 pgs) three times. I was a good writer up until right now. Happen to anybody else or am I hopelessly screwed?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by First Offense » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I've had to rewrite (not just revise) a memorandum in support of a motion (5 pgs) three times. I was a good writer up until right now. Happen to anybody else or am I hopelessly screwed?
Lol - think that's normal. Talk to whoever assigned it and ask what they say, but this seems normal to me.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by MsAvocadoPit » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:54 pm

Thank you for this thread. I, too, don't have enough work and ran around like the sky was falling this past week or so. :roll:

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:27 pm

i'm not cut out for this job.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i'm not cut out for this job.


I honestly think this everyday.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by PlinyTheLawyer » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i'm not cut out for this job.


I honestly think this everyday.
Thirded.

Last week, a supervising attorney said he was "disappointed" in a project and I nearly came to tears in my office. I work in M&A and a third year said he was shocked that the SA would give me such a complicated assignment in my first month. Confidence = gone

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Nebby » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I've had to rewrite (not just revise) a memorandum in support of a motion (5 pgs) three times. I was a good writer up until right now. Happen to anybody else or am I hopelessly screwed?
Three series of revisions seems standard. Would you have preferred submitting the first draft and lose?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:06 pm

PlinyTheLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i'm not cut out for this job.


I honestly think this everyday.
Thirded.

Last week, a supervising attorney said he was "disappointed" in a project and I nearly came to tears in my office. I work in M&A and a third year said he was shocked that the SA would give me such a complicated assignment in my first month. Confidence = gone
"Disappointed" or "disappointing" is such a common word used when refering to new attorneys and their work. I don't know if partners or more senior associates think it's polite or are blindly ignorant of how crushing it is or actually intend to demoralize. For example, I had someone tell me in response to something I drafted that they "weren't upset because how could I have known any better, just disappointed"

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:23 pm

I feel the older attorneys have a hard time realizing how little we actually know right out of law school, and what a prominent role experience and repetition play in the learning curve.

Edit: Grammar

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:31 pm

Ive been slow the last two weeks (around 30 hours) and did nothing on Thursday, so I emailed partner who told me to tell him if I needed a new project. Still haven't heard from him and have literally done 0.3 hours of billable work since Thursday. Ughhh who knew doing nothing would be so stressful.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:18 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
Honestly my best tip for slacking is not to slack right now. Make up for your incompetence with effort. Get a reputation for being a hard worker. The single most important aspect to getting a pass when you slack off later is getting people in your corner now.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:58 pm

I was just curious if any of you guys are associates at Foley Lardner or were summers there and could speak of your experience?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by RaceJudicata » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was just curious if any of you guys are associates at Foley Lardner or were summers there and could speak of your experience?
Fucks up and slacking there is probably similar to other firms.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:17 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
Honestly my best tip for slacking is not to slack right now. Make up for your incompetence with effort. Get a reputation for being a hard worker. The single most important aspect to getting a pass when you slack off later is getting people in your corner now.
How long would you say not to slack for? Like three months?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by ArtistOfManliness » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
Honestly my best tip for slacking is not to slack right now. Make up for your incompetence with effort. Get a reputation for being a hard worker. The single most important aspect to getting a pass when you slack off later is getting people in your corner now.
How long would you say not to slack for? Like three months?
Yeah, I'd say a few months of solid (and I mean solid) work for/with someone will get you the benefit of the doubt with said person.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:52 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:More tips for slacking plz
Honestly my best tip for slacking is not to slack right now. Make up for your incompetence with effort. Get a reputation for being a hard worker. The single most important aspect to getting a pass when you slack off later is getting people in your corner now.
How long would you say not to slack for? Like three months?
Yeah, I'd say a few months of solid (and I mean solid) work for/with someone will get you the benefit of the doubt with said person.
Yeah three months of solid work sounds about right. But since you guys are brand new it will take you six months to do three months worth of solid work.

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:12 pm

im sure this varies by firm, but do partners generally tell associates if their hours get written down?

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Re: New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking)

Post by BaiAilian2013 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:im sure this varies by firm, but do partners generally tell associates if their hours get written down?
Only if (1) it's really egregious and they're like how did it take this long, or (2) they need your help knowing how much to write down (e.g., some of the time you spent was fixing your own or a colleague's fuckup so the client shouldn't get charged). Or you might find out if they make you review the final bill (although IME associates are more likely to review the pre-bill). Otherwise no, there's generally no reason to tell you. Some level of write-down is normal and expected (at least by most, not all, partners).

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