Columbia EIP 2014 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Mass Mailing Question:

I used almost all my bids on NYC. But there are still a ton of NYC firms I like but couldn't fit on my list. Should I wait until interview schedules come out to mass mail these firms? Or is it okay to mail them beforehand and say I wasn't able to fit them on my bid list?

-Psyduck (3.6, no LR)

[Anonymous User]

Mass Mailing Question:

I used almost all my bids on NYC. But there are still a ton of NYC firms I like but couldn't fit on my list. Should I wait until interview schedules come out to mass mail these firms? Or is it okay to mail them beforehand and say I wasn't able to fit them on my bid list?

-Psyduck (3.6, no LR)

I'd say email them now. I can't see it hurting to be a little early. What would be the point of waiting until schedules come up anyway? It's not like you can lie and say "Oh I totally bid you, but for some crazy reason I didn't get it. Still want to let me interview?"

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

How much of an issue is it if my resume doesn't look exactly like the OCS format? I just saw that I will be informed by OCS if it doesn't fit the requirements. Content is pretty much the same, just the formatting and style are a bit different.

This is an enormous deal and something firms will notice immediately. You have to remember we see literally hundreds of CLS resumes, and - let's put it this way, if you can't follow the fucking resume guidelines, how will you follow a SEC form or make court papers look like our firm style? It may sound nuts but this is pretty close to an auto ding for us. For the love of god, just make your resume look identical to everyone else's.

I'm hoping you're flame, but if not, you're what's wrong with the legal profession. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

How much of an issue is it if my resume doesn't look exactly like the OCS format? I just saw that I will be informed by OCS if it doesn't fit the requirements. Content is pretty much the same, just the formatting and style are a bit different.

This is an enormous deal and something firms will notice immediately. You have to remember we see literally hundreds of CLS resumes, and - let's put it this way, if you can't follow the fucking resume guidelines, how will you follow a SEC form or make court papers look like our firm style? It may sound nuts but this is pretty close to an auto ding for us. For the love of god, just make your resume look identical to everyone else's.

I'm hoping you're flame, but if not, you're what's wrong with the legal profession. Thanks.

I am deadly fucking serious. And I assure you the same rule applies at every goddamn shop on 6th ave or Lex or down in FiDi. Also, my wife (a recruiter at a big consulting firm) assures me that her firm has the exact same rule, mutatis mutandis, for MBAs from big b-schools.

[Anonymous User]

How much of an issue is it if my resume doesn't look exactly like the OCS format? I just saw that I will be informed by OCS if it doesn't fit the requirements. Content is pretty much the same, just the formatting and style are a bit different.

This is an enormous deal and something firms will notice immediately. You have to remember we see literally hundreds of CLS resumes, and - let's put it this way, if you can't follow the fucking resume guidelines, how will you follow a SEC form or make court papers look like our firm style? It may sound nuts but this is pretty close to an auto ding for us. For the love of god, just make your resume look identical to everyone else's.

I'm hoping you're flame, but if not, you're what's wrong with the legal profession. Thanks.

I am deadly fucking serious. And I assure you the same rule applies at every goddamn shop on 6th ave or Lex or down in FiDi. Also, my wife (a recruiter at a big consulting firm) assures me that her firm has the exact same rule, mutatis mutandis, for MBAs from big b-schools.

idk, I mean, I appreciate the advise and I'm sure OCS will tailor our resumes to your standard, but maybe this format-fetishism remains just a new york thing; I'm doing a 1L SA at a big vault firm, and for what it's worth I was also an analyst at a chique-y consulting firm prior to law school, and my resumes have never conformed to some career services-manipulated rubric. Clearly, recruiting patterns are not so monochromatic, unless you're just referring to the aesthetic disjunction resulting from one resume standing out from the rest of the visual credential assault.

[Anonymous User]

I heard partners from three V20 firms talk on the subject at summer firm events/etc., and each said to just stick to OCS's rubric, that they didn't want to see any more than that.

[brazleton]

.

[Anonymous User]

This is an enormous deal and something firms will notice immediately. You have to remember we see literally hundreds of CLS resumes, and - let's put it this way, if you can't follow the fucking resume guidelines, how will you follow a SEC form or make court papers look like our firm style? It may sound nuts but this is pretty close to an auto ding for us. For the love of god, just make your resume look identical to everyone else's.

I'm hoping you're flame, but if not, you're what's wrong with the legal profession. Thanks.

I am deadly fucking serious. And I assure you the same rule applies at every goddamn shop on 6th ave or Lex or down in FiDi. Also, my wife (a recruiter at a big consulting firm) assures me that her firm has the exact same rule, mutatis mutandis, for MBAs from big b-schools.

This reads like you are crying. Are you crying about resume formatting?

Can we try to keep this thread somewhat professional? I know the power of anonymous posting is tempting, but please stop looking for a fight. If you don't like his advice, ignore it and move on. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Mass Mailing Question:

I used almost all my bids on NYC. But there are still a ton of NYC firms I like but couldn't fit on my list. Should I wait until interview schedules come out to mass mail these firms? Or is it okay to mail them beforehand and say I wasn't able to fit them on my bid list?

-Psyduck (3.6, no LR)

I'd say email them now. I can't see it hurting to be a little early. What would be the point of waiting until schedules come up anyway? It's not like you can lie and say "Oh I totally bid you, but for some crazy reason I didn't get it. Still want to let me interview?"

This makes perfect sense to me. Does everyone else agree that it's okay to just go ahead and email NYC firms you didn't bid on? I would just be saying that I couldn't fit them on my bid list. If it seems like I'm being overly cautious/paranoid, please refer to the last few posts.

-psyduck

[Anonymous User]

This makes perfect sense to me. Does everyone else agree that it's okay to just go ahead and email NYC firms you didn't bid on? I would just be saying that I couldn't fit them on my bid list. If it seems like I'm being overly cautious/paranoid, please refer to the last few posts.

-psyduck

It can only help. If you don't try, then you won't get them anyway, and it certainly won't hurt your other applications/prospects.

It is a hard angle to come from, because they know you didn't want them enough to bid on them in the first place... That's not the best signal. But all it costs you is a few minutes to write an email, and you definitely won't get them if you don't do it. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

This makes perfect sense to me. Does everyone else agree that it's okay to just go ahead and email NYC firms you didn't bid on? I would just be saying that I couldn't fit them on my bid list. If it seems like I'm being overly cautious/paranoid, please refer to the last few posts.

-psyduck

It can only help. If you don't try, then you won't get them anyway, and it certainly won't hurt your other applications/prospects.

It is a hard angle to come from, because they know you didn't want them enough to bid on them in the first place... That's not the best signal. But all it costs you is a few minutes to write an email, and you definitely won't get them if you don't do it. Good luck.

Done. Thanks!

-psyduck

[Anonymous User]

Before you just mass mail a firm, it is definitely prudent to go to their website and see if you can apply online. If so, fill out the application provided before you email anyone. After that, email the recruiter that you weren't able to bid them, but you applied online (if applicable; pun intended) and would like to interview. I think you should include an excuse for not bidding them. With 30 bids, I'd be a little salty if you couldn't fit me in somewhere.

Since these are only NY firms, I think the better move is to wait until bidlists come out and then lie and say you bid them, but didn't get an interview. You'll have to wait another 2 weeks, but it isn't like you lose the time to fly somewhere for an interview before EIP. Morally questionable? Yes. Effective? Maybe.

[Anonymous User]

Before you just mass mail a firm, it is definitely prudent to go to their website and see if you can apply online. If so, fill out the application provided before you email anyone. After that, email the recruiter that you weren't able to bid them, but you applied online (if applicable; pun intended) and would like to interview. I think you should include an excuse for not bidding them. With 30 bids, I'd be a little salty if you couldn't fit me in somewhere.

Since these are only NY firms, I think the better move is to wait until bidlists come out and then lie and say you bid them, but didn't get an interview. You'll have to wait another 2 weeks, but it isn't like you lose the time to fly somewhere for an interview before EIP. Morally questionable? Yes. Effective? Maybe.

FYI I believe they can see who bid them.

[Anonymous User]

Post above

FYI I believe they can see who bid them.

In that case ignore the second paragraph. However, you should still apply online if the firm site has that option and have a reason for not bidding them to begin with.

[Anonymous User]

Before you just mass mail a firm, it is definitely prudent to go to their website and see if you can apply online. If so, fill out the application provided before you email anyone. After that, email the recruiter that you weren't able to bid them, but you applied online (if applicable; pun intended) and would like to interview. I think you should include an excuse for not bidding them. With 30 bids, I'd be a little salty if you couldn't fit me in somewhere.

Since these are only NY firms, I think the better move is to wait until bidlists come out and then lie and say you bid them, but didn't get an interview. You'll have to wait another 2 weeks, but it isn't like you lose the time to fly somewhere for an interview before EIP. Morally questionable? Yes. Effective? Maybe.

FYI I believe they can see who bid them.

I brought this up in an OCS consultation and my counselor said that they don't see who bid them or where people bid them, just whether or not they got an interview. However, two caveats: 1) who the fuck knows whether or not that is true given some of the patently false things people have heard from OCS and 2) if you email a firm like Cravath that has 200+ interviews and say you didn't get an interview, they will be able to deduce that, at a minimum, you didn't put them in the top 20 or so, which could reflect poorly on you. That being said, I am planning on applying to a couple of lower ranked, less grade conscious firms that I didn't bid and then also pretending that I bid some of the higher ranked firms and didn't get an interview once schedules come out.

[lunaraeon]

OCS told me that firms are given a list of everyone who didn't get an interview but bid them—a waitlist they (rarely) draw from, if they want to interview more people.

In any case, they were pretty clear that firms are at least able to tell if you bid them or not.

Why not just say nothing? If a firm emails back wondering why they won't just interview you at EIP, then you can start twisting words if you want to pretend you bid them without actually saying so, but lying off the bat seems like a poor approach.

[jbagelboy]

OCS told me that firms are given a list of everyone who didn't get an interview but bid them—a waitlist they (rarely) draw from, if they want to interview more people.

In any case, they were pretty clear that firms are at least able to tell if you bid them or not.

Why not just say nothing? If a firm emails back wondering why they won't just interview you at EIP, then you can start twisting words if you want to pretend you bid them without actually saying so, but lying off the bat seems like a poor approach.

Yea, this makes sense. Don't make excuses for yourself if you aren't asked to.

I'm curious about the protocol for firms where you bid one of their offices, and want to apply directly to another office you couldn't bid. Then it's not that I didn't bid their firm at eip, it's more that I bid a different city.. Not sure which inference is worse lol

[Anonymous User]

OCS told me that firms are given a list of everyone who didn't get an interview but bid them—a waitlist they (rarely) draw from, if they want to interview more people.

In any case, they were pretty clear that firms are at least able to tell if you bid them or not.

Why not just say nothing? If a firm emails back wondering why they won't just interview you at EIP, then you can start twisting words if you want to pretend you bid them without actually saying so, but lying off the bat seems like a poor approach.

Yea, this makes sense. Don't make excuses for yourself if you aren't asked to.

I'm curious about the protocol for firms where you bid one of their offices, and want to apply directly to another office you couldn't bid. Then it's not that I didn't bid their firm at eip, it's more that I bid a different city.. Not sure which inference is worse lol

For some of them you can't even bid more than one office so maybe it would make sense to apply directly?

[Anonymous User]

What are you all doing to prepare for EIP and callbacks? I'm researching firms a little bit but haven't done much to prepare for interviews. Might start looking at those "frequently asked questions." Just feel like I should be doing more to prep...

[Anonymous User]

What are you all doing to prepare for EIP and callbacks? I'm researching firms a little bit but haven't done much to prepare for interviews. Might start looking at those "frequently asked questions." Just feel like I should be doing more to prep...

I'm not gonna prep until I have my schedule. I've already researched the handful of firms on the top of my (proverbial) list, and figure there's no point in researching my whole bidlist if I'm not going to even see some of them,

[Anonymous User]

Same, gonna research firms once I get my bidlist. Will that be coming to us next week? I'd love to be able to start on that. Also, are you guys mass mailing NYC firms? I've been mailing my home markets, but given that I bid strictly NYC I figured I could wait a bit longer for that.

-Joseph Anton

[Anonymous User]

Same, gonna research firms once I get my bidlist. Will that be coming to us next week? I'd love to be able to start on that. Also, are you guys mass mailing NYC firms? I've been mailing my home markets, but given that I bid strictly NYC I figured I could wait a bit longer for that.

-Joseph Anton

We get schedules July 28th I believe

[Anonymous User]

Same, gonna research firms once I get my bidlist. Will that be coming to us next week? I'd love to be able to start on that. Also, are you guys mass mailing NYC firms? I've been mailing my home markets, but given that I bid strictly NYC I figured I could wait a bit longer for that.

-Joseph Anton

We get schedules July 28th I believe

Isn't that the last day to cancel interviews through EIP?

[Anonymous User]

What are you all doing to prepare for EIP and callbacks? I'm researching firms a little bit but haven't done much to prepare for interviews. Might start looking at those "frequently asked questions." Just feel like I should be doing more to prep...

I'm not gonna prep until I have my schedule. I've already researched the handful of firms on the top of my (proverbial) list, and figure there's no point in researching my whole bidlist if I'm not going to even see some of them,

Yea same. Only doing research at this point for ones I'm gonna get for sure i.e. bid way higher. The end of the month is gonna be hectic for me moving back to NYC and etc so might as well make progress.

[Anonymous User]

Same, gonna research firms once I get my bidlist. Will that be coming to us next week? I'd love to be able to start on that. Also, are you guys mass mailing NYC firms? I've been mailing my home markets, but given that I bid strictly NYC I figured I could wait a bit longer for that.

-Joseph Anton

We get schedules July 28th I believe

Isn't that the last day to cancel interviews through EIP?

I think we have like one day to cancel, which ends on the 29th.