V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

If a candidate is an SA for an overseas branch of a firm for their first year summer would are the chance that they will get an automatic offer for the second year in a United States office if the candiate's GPA is on the low end? (Assuming he/she did a great job first year and with recommendation of partner from the over-seas branch)

A weird question. In theory, sounds great. But for us, would be shocked if that happened at all to begin with (the 1L SA). Still would need a GPA w/in our range or a pretty compelling reason to go around it. Connection that got you the 1L SA could do ti...

[Anonymous User]

I go to a T14 law school. I have extensive work experience in I-banking. I was hired as a 1L summer associate for a V25 firm but I am way below their normal grade cutoff and they saw my first semester grades. Do I have a legitimate shot at getting an offer to return for my 2L summer if I knock it out of the park this summer or was this just a job for the summer and an invitation to come back if I pull my grades up and make law review.

Have you ever seen W/E overcome grades significantly below a cut off?

[Old Gregg]

Do I have a legitimate shot at getting an offer to return for my 2L summer if I knock it out of the park this summer or was this just a job for the summer and an invitation to come back if I pull my grades up and make law review.

You not only have a legitimate shot, but you have an amazing shot at getting an offer to return just by doing good work on the job and making sure your grades aren't atrocious this semester. Relax.

[Davidbentley]

This is one of the best threads on TLS. Itbdvorm, I apologize for the vapid questions of my fellow neophytes, and I appreciate your candor, decorum, and measured insight.

[itbdvorm]

Do I have a legitimate shot at getting an offer to return for my 2L summer if I knock it out of the park this summer or was this just a job for the summer and an invitation to come back if I pull my grades up and make law review.

You not only have a legitimate shot, but you have an amazing shot at getting an offer to return just by doing good work on the job and making sure your grades aren't atrocious this semester. Relax.

Probably right, but depends. Did you get hired through a connection? Did you get the offer before or after they saw your first semester grades?

If after they saw your grades they gave you the shot anyway you're in very good shape. A little worse if before, but if you pull your grades up to a reasonable level and do a great job this summer you're probably fine.

Again, grade cuts vary widely firm-to-firm, as do internal hiring processes. But of course I'd do as good a job as possible over the summer, etc.

[Anonymous User]

What's the underlying philosophy behind the law review fetish in law hiring as opposed to more practical skills building activities in law school?

Since making LR often depends on grades and class rank -- things already discernible from a resume -- what is the information that recruiters glean from having LR on there too?

[Anonymous User]

I am wondering how a large firm judges a SA and decide whether or not they want to make an offer to them. From my understanding (which may be totally incorrect) most big firms make a great percentage of offers to their SAs so I am wondering if the standard is just whether or not the SAs are willing to put in the hours or if it's more than that.

[Anonymous User]

2L at T20 that struck out. Top 25% & LR. Only offer so far for summer is unpaid with no chance of post-grad work at a private investment regulatory organization. I feel like accepting it would just be giving up and conceding graduating unemployed and having to wait to find something after the bar. 3L OCI doesn't really exist at my school, and I probably don't have the grades for any vault ranked firms, let alone a v15. Any advice on how to improve my situation, and how important is it to spend the summer in the city you want to end up post grad? TIA

[itbdvorm]

What's the underlying philosophy behind the law review fetish in law hiring as opposed to more practical skills building activities in law school?

Since making LR often depends on grades and class rank -- things already discernible from a resume -- what is the information that recruiters glean from having LR on there too?

Often a writing component too, so it avoids the "bad writer" (maybe). But I challenge you to find a more practical skill-building activity for your first few years of practice than scrubbing things to make sure they don't have any typos, conform, etc...

[itbdvorm]

I am wondering how a large firm judges a SA and decide whether or not they want to make an offer to them. From my understanding (which may be totally incorrect) most big firms make a great percentage of offers to their SAs so I am wondering if the standard is just whether or not the SAs are willing to put in the hours or if it's more than that.

It'll be unlikely that there will be a test of "putting in the hours" during your summer associate experience. But you are expected to turn in good work product when asked and behave appropriately. Shockingly large numbers fail these tests every year. But most, do, indeed succeed.

[itbdvorm]

2L at T20 that struck out. Top 25% & LR. Only offer so far for summer is unpaid with no chance of post-grad work at a private investment regulatory organization. I feel like accepting it would just be giving up and conceding graduating unemployed and having to wait to find something after the bar. 3L OCI doesn't really exist at my school, and I probably don't have the grades for any vault ranked firms, let alone a v15. Any advice on how to improve my situation, and how important is it to spend the summer in the city you want to end up post grad? TIA

That's really surprising. Do you come across as weird, awkward, not interviewing well? Did you only apply to super-top firms? What about local firms (guessing you're not in a major city / top-14)? Did you look at any of them? Any places where you have a background / connection? Did you work before? Any connections there who might be able to help? Career services? Professors you bonded with?

Not totally sure what the right answer is, but if you've exhausted everything I just said then, well, take the job. Do an awesome job with it, treat it like a paid job, arrive early, stay late. Find out where your employers came from, how they ended up there. See if there are opportunities at their old firms. See if they know people. See if they'd be willing to write you a recommendation. See if there are firms specializing in the type of private investments you worked on over the summer, try to wow them. Hustle, hustle, hustle...

[Anonymous User]

I am a 2L at a Top14 law school and I have been offered a summer associate position with a V50 firm. The employment application requests disclosure of any criminal convictions that have not been sealed or expunged. I have never been convicted of any crime. I have been arrested for a minor offense, which is likely to show up on the firm's background check as the records have not been expunged or sealed yet. Should I disclose the arrest and surrounding circumstances even though not responsive to the firm's questionnaire?

[itbdvorm]

I am a 2L at a Top14 law school and I have been offered a summer associate position with a V50 firm. The employment application requests disclosure of any criminal convictions that have not been sealed or expunged. I have never been convicted of any crime. I have been arrested for a minor offense, which is likely to show up on the firm's background check as the records have not been expunged or sealed yet. Should I disclose the arrest and surrounding circumstances even though not responsive to the firm's questionnaire?

Um. Not really sure on this one. Depends what it is. But they ask for conviction...and you haven't...so...

[Anonymous User]

Hi, I am a 2L with an SA in a V20 firm, but not in CA, NY, or DC. I am wondering what might be expected of me as an SA, considering I have no prior office work experience, much less law firm experience. Obviously, I must submit good work in a timely manner. But what is "good work" in this context?

Also, I am not the most social person ever. Nor am I horribly socially awkward. I just tend to be quiet until I get to know the people in the room. Any advice for how to act at SA social events and just around the office?

I really appreciate you taking questions as it's getting to the point where I'm beginning to realize that summer is right around the corner... Any other advice on being a successful SA would be great as well. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Why is it taking so long for my V15 to release our start dates (current 3L; incoming new associate)?

[itbdvorm]

Hi, I am a 2L with an SA in a V20 firm, but not in CA, NY, or DC. I am wondering what might be expected of me as an SA, considering I have no prior office work experience, much less law firm experience. Obviously, I must submit good work in a timely manner. But what is "good work" in this context?

Also, I am not the most social person ever. Nor am I horribly socially awkward. I just tend to be quiet until I get to know the people in the room. Any advice for how to act at SA social events and just around the office?

I really appreciate you taking questions as it's getting to the point where I'm beginning to realize that summer is right around the corner... Any other advice on being a successful SA would be great as well. Thanks!

"Good work" means well thought out work product, free of typos and with some reasonable consideration behind it. If someone asks you to find something, and everything you're finding is the opposite, a brief chat (instead of a 20 page memo) will often help put you in the right direction. Making sure things get done that you say will get done.

Re: social situations - by a week or two into your summer you probably will get to know many of the people in many of the rooms. Don't be socially awkward, overly inappropriate. The guy trying to be the "cool person" is also often the one who doesn't get an offer for being too drunk, too loud, too aggressive, too "I don't have to do that project, everyone loves me." Be closer to Zach Stiler/Tracy Flick than Stifler.

[itbdvorm]

Why is it taking so long for my V15 to release our start dates (current 3L; incoming new associate)?

Because 6 months from now is a lifetime away.

[Anonymous User]

I will be working for an ibank (GS/JPM) as an asset manager before I go to law school. I really want to do corporate litigation or M&A work. Is getting my CFA something that would make me more attractive to employers? Is there a big difference between working for the bank for a summer or for 2 years?

[traehekat]

I am a 2L at a Top14 law school and I have been offered a summer associate position with a V50 firm. The employment application requests disclosure of any criminal convictions that have not been sealed or expunged. I have never been convicted of any crime. I have been arrested for a minor offense, which is likely to show up on the firm's background check as the records have not been expunged or sealed yet. Should I disclose the arrest and surrounding circumstances even though not responsive to the firm's questionnaire?

PM me.

[itbdvorm]

I will be working for an ibank (GS/JPM) as an asset manager before I go to law school. I really want to do corporate litigation or M&A work. Is getting my CFA something that would make me more attractive to employers? Is there a big difference between working for the bank for a summer or for 2 years?

I'm not saying you shouldn't apply to law school. But please PM me before you decide to actually go. Because, well, you probably shouldn't.

[Anonymous User]

Can't say my firm's cutoff to be specific but it's something like top half at YHS, top third at CCN, and further tightening as you go...but I do think we're on the tighter side of firms

If it is top third at CCN, then PBV must be around top 20/25. . . that is less than cheerful news. Looks like we'll need a compelling LOR from whomever we work for during 1L summer. . . and then hope for the best.

Are there signs that this upturn in the economy might loosen the reins a bit? In other words, before the recession how far down the T-14 (or Tier 1) rankings could one go before median ousted them from contention? Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Can't say my firm's cutoff to be specific but it's something like top half at YHS, top third at CCN, and further tightening as you go...but I do think we're on the tighter side of firms

If it is top third at CCN, then PBV must be around top 20/25. . . that is less than cheerful news. Looks like we'll need a compelling LOR from whomever we work for during 1L summer. . . and then hope for the best.

Are there signs that this upturn in the economy might loosen the reins a bit? In other words, before the recession how far down the T-14 (or Tier 1) rankings could one go before median ousted them from contention? Thanks.

I'm also wondering what the cutoff must look like at PMBV, especially at Michigan.

[roranoa]

Would you recommend this profession to your children (if you had children) or your nephew or anybody close to you?

[Anonymous User]

How common is it for people to move up the "ladder" of firms? Say one starts his career at a V20 or V25 firm. Is it common for someone to leave that firm to make his way into a V10 or V5 firm? Or do people typically move down the "ladder" when they leave their first firm? Is this something people are even cognizant of once their careers begin?

[Anonymous User]

Hi itbdvorm,

I was wondering if you had any insight about the life of an associate in the technology transactions & licensing practice of a firm? Volatility of hours? Interesting work? Any opinions on that practice area? Thanks for taking questions!