New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[5ky]

I love the people I work with. It's just hard to handle the unpredictability mostly.

[somewhatwayward]

My secretary and I are having a power struggle. I turned the thermostat down in my office (I like it cold); a little while later, my secretary comes in and says she's cold and asks if she can turn the temperature up. Apparently the cold air drifts out of my office. Anyway, I said fine and she turns it up.

The next weekend I'm in the office finishing up some work and get warm. Turn the AC down. Forget to turn it up. Following week, she comes in complaining that she's cold. I tell her to turn the thermostat up. She calls maintenance to check the temperature and while they're in my office she asks if they can put a locking device on the thermostat. I laugh, loudly. The maintenance people left without installing a lock. But LOL at her even asking about this while I sit there as if I'm not in the room!

Also, she hasn't added my name to her footer. All of the other secretaries appear to have added their new associates, but not mine. Don't want to seem petty by bringing it up, but it's been a month now.

What is a footer?

Give her some work. If she is surly or doesn't do it. Freeze her out forever. Never give her a gift, etc. Give her bad yearly reviews. You don't really need a secretary anyway.

If you need one for some reason, just ask for a new one.

How do you not need a secretary?

I get mine to do a bunch of random stuff that the partners don't want to see on the bills (or want to see very little time on)

Like calling a judges assistant to ask about something mundane

Footer is the thing at the bottom her her emails saying "secretary to [person]." We share secretaries with one or two other people, but she hasn't added my name to the little list of people. Largely irrelevant because she doesn't sent emails on my behalf, but it's the principle.

I've been giving her whatever work I can--not much to delegate yet, frankly. I've had her add things to my calendars, print/scan/mail things for me, and so on. She seems to do fine and doesn't give me any attitude, but the thermostat thing makes me think there's some confusion on her part about our dynamic.

ETA - I share her with a partner who I work with, so I've gotta play nice

It could be because of the ethics rule that the firm isn't supposed to hold you out as a lawyer until you're admitted (i suppose she could say 'secretary to x, not yet admitted' but that seems pretty silly). Also are you real? I can't believe any non-flame would care. I didn't want to wade through every page of this thread so sorry if this was already resolved.

[Old Gregg]

It could be because of the ethics rule that the firm isn't supposed to hold you out as a lawyer until you're admitted (i suppose she could say 'secretary to x, not yet admitted' but that seems pretty silly). Also are you real?

u dont have to be an attorney to have a secretary, so im not sure how listing the person's name would violate any ethics rule unless she was literally appending an "esq" to every name... (which is stupid).

[somewhatwayward]

Same 5 PM guy. What if you're not staffed on anything at the time, and waiting for more work? Is leaving at 5 still not acceptable in your office, DF?

Regarding the thermostat debate, it's worth noting that in addition to weighing more, men also have to wear sport jackets at most places and a sport jacket does (in my opinion) make it like 5-6 degrees warmer. I feel like most women just wear a long sleeve shirt this time of year or one piece dress (whatever they're called), and no jacket.

IMHO if you're not staffed on anything and you have no reason to think you would get further work on a particular day, it is fine to leave at 5 or 5:30...you have to be a little bit careful about the particulars of the partners in your group but I would bet that 19 times out of 20 no one notices you're gone. Even if someone suddenly emails you and needs you, you can probably do it from home.

Is it good to make this a regular practice? I wish but prob not....however most people are too engrossed what they're doing to mind the whereabouts of a newbie and more importantly people will make impressions about your value based on the work you do and your attitude (and availability, too, but being available includes being remotely logged in from home so long as you can be timely in your responses). I know there are some partners or groups where leaving at 5 would be taboo regardless, but I have taken the approach I am describing (occasionally leave early or am otherwise out of the office when one would be expected to be in the office but readily available/responsive when I am out of the office) and it has worked very well for me in big nyc tx practice. I actually also tend to come in very late (bc I am a night owl so I also work late when I'm busy) and I haven't had issues with that either but I am also very on top of things and responsive/available (other than at 8 am:p). Obviously proceed with caution with this stuff at your firm. ..prob best to ask a trusted senior associate in your group about what is expected.

Also PSA to new first years: relax about the amount of work you have. One partner told me today that all the new first years are freaking out because they don't have a full plate yet (the group is busy and the first years are assigned to deals but it takes some time for people to get them up to speed and also to get to trust them)...so really please chill and enjoy the slow pace. In six months you will be wishing for when it was slow. If you're still this slow in a few months then maybe you should worry that your group is slow or that no one wants to work with you, but for now enjoy going home at 6 and getting paid a lot to do nothing! I was worried during my first few weeks, too, and now I wish I had just enjoyed that time.

[fats provolone]

My thermostat is controlled by someone else (presumably a partner) who likes it ice cold. So I just have a space heater cranking full blast 24/7. Efficiency

[Anonymous User]

My thermostat is controlled by someone else (presumably a partner) who likes it ice cold. So I just have a space heater cranking full blast 24/7. Efficiency

I work from home now, and this is one of many things I don't miss about working in an office. It is nice to be able to feel your fingers while typing.

[Anonymous User]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

[smaug]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

If you know the answer is wrong, get ahead of it. Nobody likes mistakes but you're forgiven way more quickly if you're like "I fucked up, but I realized it and here's how I can fix it"

[Johann]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

If you know the answer is wrong, get ahead of it. Nobody likes mistakes but you're forgiven way more quickly if you're like "I fucked up, but I realized it and here's how I can fix it"

[Anonymous User]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

I drafted an entire motion--eight pages full of legal research and cites--and the partner rewrote the entire thing, top to bottom, with mostly new cites. So this doesn't sound so bad.

[unlicensedpotato]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

General advice for what to do next time -- even though everyone's gone, if it's a timely, brief question, email the partner or senior associate. They're often working from home so it's not typically not even an inconvenience. Much better to do this and then you still have time to do the correct research that night. If you really just needed a re-explanation, that's obviously harder to ask/answer via email.

In my experience, people don't generally expect you to understand it/get it right though as a stub year associate anyway so I wouldn't worry.

[Desert Fox]

Something that seems sorta time sensitve - propose time

something that seems ASAP - ask

something that seems not time sensetive - just assume whenever. Otherwise you set a time and then something else comes up and assfucks yea.

I take back that last piece of advice. A partner hates my guts because I did that several times. Apparently he's a big fan of random unspoken deadlines.

[First Offense]

Something that seems sorta time sensitve - propose time

something that seems ASAP - ask

something that seems not time sensetive - just assume whenever. Otherwise you set a time and then something else comes up and assfucks yea.

I take back that last piece of advice. A partner hates my guts because I did that several times. Apparently he's a big fan of random unspoken deadlines.

Yeah the last piece seems rather dangerous to me.

[Anonymous User]

serendipitous necro

finishing up my first year of practice as an assistant counsel in a gov agency and had a pretty shit day today.

started off with one of my supervisors asking me to make a bunch of calls to various attorneys so they could ask a ton of questions about something my agency did recently, but i was told to duck and dodge all questions so i basically spent the first half of my morning making people pissed at me. then i find out, through a chain of emails in which another supervisor is cc'd, that i hadn't forwarded something to someone in a different division that we received back in June. great, really fucking great. i then get asked to draft something that, albeit short, was possibly going in front of the head of my agency and needed to be ready in 30 minutes. with 5 minutes left, i get told by a senior that it needs a lot of work, and just present it orally if asked. wonderful. finally the day finishes off with me trying to coordinate with another senior on a different project, only to be met with a stern "just get it done." woohoo.

these are the worst type of days.

[Anonymous User]

god I had so many easily avoidable fuck ups today that were noticed by very senior people that I can't even open my office door I'm so humiliated

and its not like this is my first time either. I think I'm going to generate a reputation as somewhat careless

[2L2soon]

god I had so many easily avoidable fuck ups today that were noticed by very senior people that I can't even open my office door I'm so humiliated

and its not like this is my first time either. I think I'm going to generate a reputation as somewhat careless

I closed my door and cried yesterday. I don't even know why. It wasn't that big of a screw-up, but it really sucks when work gets taken away from you. I felt so incompetent.

[MKC]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

General advice for what to do next time -- even though everyone's gone, if it's a timely, brief question, email the partner or senior associate. They're often working from home so it's not typically not even an inconvenience. Much better to do this and then you still have time to do the correct research that night. If you really just needed a re-explanation, that's obviously harder to ask/answer via email.

In my experience, people don't generally expect you to understand it/get it right though as a stub year associate anyway so I wouldn't worry.

In my firm this is definitely not true. I have been told explicitly that there is no backstop and no one is double checking my work, so it is crucial that I get it right. If I tell them something, they run with it without thinking twice. (This is terrifying as a stub year) If I'm not sure about something, or the law is ambiguous, I make sure to highlight that so that people who rely on my work know when something might be a problem.

I work at a small firm though, so YMMV.

[First Offense]

Restarting this. 3 months in.

Pretty sure I sent the wrong answer to a research question to a partner that I've never done work for before. Next day told me that because another associate (3rd yr) had more time, they were going to look at it.

I feel like sh%t. Couldn't find the right cite, so I sent something I thought was close enough. Didn't understand the question either and everyone had left. I'm a fuck-up. Probably not my first time either.

Worst part is the partner is my formal mentor.

General advice for what to do next time -- even though everyone's gone, if it's a timely, brief question, email the partner or senior associate. They're often working from home so it's not typically not even an inconvenience. Much better to do this and then you still have time to do the correct research that night. If you really just needed a re-explanation, that's obviously harder to ask/answer via email.

In my experience, people don't generally expect you to understand it/get it right though as a stub year associate anyway so I wouldn't worry.

In my firm this is definitely not true. I have been told explicitly that there is no backstop and no one is double checking my work, so it is crucial that I get it right. If I tell them something, they run with it without thinking twice. (This is terrifying as a stub year) If I'm not sure about something, or the law is ambiguous, I make sure to highlight that so that people who rely on my work know when something might be a problem.

I work at a small firm though, so YMMV.

Similar for me. I make sure to hedge if I'm not 100% on the law in an area (haven't gotten many research projects though) to cover my ass, but generally if I say something they are going to run with it.

Terrifying shit.

[MKC]

In my firm this is definitely not true. I have been told explicitly that there is no backstop and no one is double checking my work, so it is crucial that I get it right. If I tell them something, they run with it without thinking twice. (This is terrifying as a stub year) If I'm not sure about something, or the law is ambiguous, I make sure to highlight that so that people who rely on my work know when something might be a problem.

I work at a small firm though, so YMMV.

Similar for me. I make sure to hedge if I'm not 100% on the law in an area (haven't gotten many research projects though) to cover my ass, but generally if I say something they are going to run with it.

Terrifying shit.

It's good to hear I'm not alone on this one. (the reliance or related terror) I'm in lit, and most of my job is research and drafting motions or pleadings. It's understood that everything I draft will be edited by more senior attorneys, but they absolutely expect the underlying statements of law and fact to be correct. I got my ass handed to me for misreading a case about a month ago. At least I know what the rules are now: Don't be wrong. Ever.

[First Offense]

In my firm this is definitely not true. I have been told explicitly that there is no backstop and no one is double checking my work, so it is crucial that I get it right. If I tell them something, they run with it without thinking twice. (This is terrifying as a stub year) If I'm not sure about something, or the law is ambiguous, I make sure to highlight that so that people who rely on my work know when something might be a problem.

I work at a small firm though, so YMMV.

Similar for me. I make sure to hedge if I'm not 100% on the law in an area (haven't gotten many research projects though) to cover my ass, but generally if I say something they are going to run with it.

Terrifying shit.

It's good to hear I'm not alone on this one. (the reliance or related terror) I'm in lit, and most of my job is research and drafting motions or pleadings. It's understood that everything I draft will be edited by more senior attorneys, but they absolutely expect the underlying statements of law and fact to be correct. I got my ass handed to me for misreading a case about a month ago. At least I know what the rules are now: Don't be wrong. Ever.

Yeah I somehow fell into the regulatory/compliance arm of my substantive practice area, so there's a lot of "explain complicated law to business people in a way they can understand", a quick edit for grammar and phrasing, and then just ship it off to the client.

Which is cool because my work goes directly to clients with my name on it (which for some reason has become a point of pride for me), but also feels like a lot of responsibility.

[unlicensedpotato]

In my firm this is definitely not true. I have been told explicitly that there is no backstop and no one is double checking my work, so it is crucial that I get it right. If I tell them something, they run with it without thinking twice. (This is terrifying as a stub year) If I'm not sure about something, or the law is ambiguous, I make sure to highlight that so that people who rely on my work know when something might be a problem.

I work at a small firm though, so YMMV.

Similar for me. I make sure to hedge if I'm not 100% on the law in an area (haven't gotten many research projects though) to cover my ass, but generally if I say something they are going to run with it.

Terrifying shit.

It's good to hear I'm not alone on this one. (the reliance or related terror) I'm in lit, and most of my job is research and drafting motions or pleadings. It's understood that everything I draft will be edited by more senior attorneys, but they absolutely expect the underlying statements of law and fact to be correct. I got my ass handed to me for misreading a case about a month ago. At least I know what the rules are now: Don't be wrong. Ever.

Yeah I'll walk that back -- it's probably practice area dependent at best. Lit is a whole different ball game.

[MKC]

you fucking n00bs, i had to spend all night rewriting a goddamn motion to transfer bc the first year on my team is incompetent.

WHY DONT YOU JUST ASK QUESTIONS??

First year or stub year?

[Anonymous User]

First year transactional associate (stub year). My biggest problem is that I am barely billing any time (I had one week where I billed 30 hours). I can go multiple days without work, despite asking people for assignments, and the same is true for other new associates in my practice group.

Here's to hoping that this miraculously changes in the start of the new billable year. I know I'm supposed to "enjoy" the down time while I have it, but it seems unlikely that something will magically happen at the stroke of midnight on January 1.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

More tips for slacking plz

[bk1]

First year transactional associate (stub year). My biggest problem is that I am barely billing any time (I had one week where I billed 30 hours). I can go multiple days without work, despite asking people for assignments, and the same is true for other new associates in my practice group.

Here's to hoping that this miraculously changes in the start of the new billable year. I know I'm supposed to "enjoy" the down time while I have it, but it seems unlikely that something will magically happen at the stroke of midnight on January 1.

It's normal for it to be slow at times, and sometimes that includes when new associates start. Plenty of people do minimal work for months on end when they start.

It's hard not to feel anxious about it, but as long as you're looking for work there's not much you can do except wait.