Columbia EIP 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

"Dear Students,

The technical issue limitng the number of interviews a student can add has been resolved. As a reminder, the Drop Process ends today at 5:00 pm (EDT) and the Add Process ends on August 2nd at 12:00 noon (EDT)."

limitng

[Anonymous User]

"Dear Students,

The technical issue limitng the number of interviews a student can add has been resolved. As a reminder, the Drop Process ends today at 5:00 pm (EDT) and the Add Process ends on August 2nd at 12:00 noon (EDT)."

limitng

*slow clap*

[Anonymous User]

Is it pretty safe to assume that places like Skadden, DPW, and Simpson are just as, if not more grade selective, at their Bay Area offices? I'm K-JD, just missed Stone so probably slightly above median, and born and raised in the Bay Area. Without the above 3 firms I'm at 25 interviews which are split between CA and NY. I really want to return to the Bay to work and since my schedule allows it I picked up those 3 just because I figured why not. But at the same time I don't necessarily want to completely waste everyone's time.

I understand that best case scenario these firms are hail marys, but is it worth it at all?

[Anonymous User]

^ Been wondering the same - didn't bother to bid SullCrom before given my just-above-median grades, but was wondering if it's worth it to throw a hail Mary to the LA office (i.e., are West Coast offices any less grade selective than NY, or am I wasting my interviewer's time?). Strong LA ties but aside from a few adds I'm bidding mostly NY.

[Anonymous User]

So what do we do now that most of the NYC firms are taken? I only have 15, and although Id be willing to branch out to Philly and Boston, I'm not sure how good that would look.

[Anonymous User]

Is it pretty safe to assume that places like Skadden, DPW, and Simpson are just as, if not more grade selective, at their Bay Area offices? I'm K-JD, just missed Stone so probably slightly above median, and born and raised in the Bay Area. Without the above 3 firms I'm at 25 interviews which are split between CA and NY. I really want to return to the Bay to work and since my schedule allows it I picked up those 3 just because I figured why not. But at the same time I don't necessarily want to completely waste everyone's time.

I understand that best case scenario these firms are hail marys, but is it worth it at all?

As someone who bid on some of these offices last year, I can give a little insight.

I got the sense that they're roughly as selective as the New York firms. For example, Davis Polk considers an offer in one office to be an offer to any other one, so when I got the Menlo Park offer I was equally free to do my entire summer in their New York office if for some reason I switched gears all of a sudden. That sort of incentivizes similar benchmarks.

That said, you have a shot at all three, just not a sure shot - which is fine and you should try for it. The only thing to be aware of is that these summer classes are much smaller, so they're not nearly as predictable as a New York firm's summer class will be. Again with Davis Polk (because it's the one of your three I know best), there are usually about 10 summers each year. Davis Polk New York has easily over 100. And naturally, some of those 10 summers will be from Bay Area schools.

I guess where I'm going with that is that it's unpredictable and you shouldn't get down on yourself if it doesn't pan out. But you do have a shot and you should try.

So what do we do now that most of the NYC firms are taken? I only have 15, and although Id be willing to branch out to Philly and Boston, I'm not sure how good that would look.

If it's just how it'll look that's worrying you, you'll be fine. Firms won't know that you bid other cities unless you tell them.

[Anonymous User]

^ Thanks. The insight is much appreciated.

[Tiago Splitter]

The West Coast offices have similar hiring criteria but please don't avoid interviewing because you think you're wasting their time. That Wachtell story was not in any way representative of how these things go, and even if it were more common a median CLS student would not look out of place interviewing at any of the firms listed.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys,

Two questions:

1) Has anyone had experience in interviewing for California firms at EIP and can speak to potential reasons for low callbacks/offer rate? Really hoping to go back to the bay area for work, but looks like I might have made a mistake by stacking too many California firms over NY. (Also for some reason FFB jumped like nuts for all NY firms, while FFB was practically non-existent for Cali firms)



2) Does anyone have advice on picking up interviews from the lottery/hospitality suites? Or ideas on good NY firms to pick up as backups for a mid-stoner?

TYVM

[Tiago Splitter]

1) Has anyone had experience in interviewing for California firms at EIP and can speak to potential reasons for low callbacks/offer rate? Really hoping to go back to the bay area for work, but looks like I might have made a mistake by stacking too many California firms over NY. (Also for some reason FFB jumped like nuts for all NY firms, while FFB was practically non-existent for Cali firms)

Those offices are easy to add and I'd guess a fair number of people interview with minimal ties, so their chances are already lower than normal. It's also a lot easier to call someone back to NYC as opposed to flying them across the country, so they naturally are looking for a little more commitment. So both of those things work in your favor if you have ties and can show a real commitment to the area.

That said the classes are just smaller, so they aren't looking to call backs gobs of people to fill a massive class like the NYC offices do. That affects everyone, but it's certainly not a deal breaker if you have the credentials.

[codeandcodes]

1) Has anyone had experience in interviewing for California firms at EIP and can speak to potential reasons for low callbacks/offer rate? Really hoping to go back to the bay area for work, but looks like I might have made a mistake by stacking too many California firms over NY. (Also for some reason FFB jumped like nuts for all NY firms, while FFB was practically non-existent for Cali firms)

Those offices are easy to add and I'd guess a fair number of people interview with minimal ties, so their chances are already lower than normal. It's also a lot easier to call someone back to NYC as opposed to flying them across the country, so they naturally are looking for a little more commitment. So both of those things work in your favor if you have ties and can show a real commitment to the area.

That said the classes are just smaller, so they aren't looking to call backs gobs of people to fill a massive class like the NYC offices do. That affects everyone, but it's certainly not a deal breaker if you have the credentials.

Guys,
I worked in CA before and interviewed at the majority of T10-20 firms with offices in California. I also conducted interviews for potential summer associates. Bottom line is CA is a desirable place to be, so there are lots of candidates for the same positions. The people who had legitimate ties to CA received probably an unconscious boost during the interviews.

I can't speak to how well columbia students did per se, but I think your GPA must stand out a bit more than if you're interviewing for the same firm in NYC. My firm for instance, had a hard cut off for some Penn law students who came and interviewed for our office. One partner remarked that he didn't understand why some students would interview for us when they didn't meet the cut off. Obviously, it's because those law students didn't know the cut off. So here's my plug for http://www.biglawrefuge.com - sorry to segue so blatantly - but this is what I'm trying to remedy in the legal industry.

I hope that when you guys start interviewing, you'll put in your interview data into biglawrefuge and over time, these demarcations will appear for the different law schools. Hopefully it becomes a great community and service for law students around the country. Happy to answer other questions.

[codeandcodes]

Also, if you're curious about what the cutoff is, I can't remember precisely (we had a book). I would imagine it's somewhere around top 20%.

[jbagelboy]

Also, if you're curious about what the cutoff is, I can't remember precisely (we had a book). I would imagine it's somewhere around top 20%.

Can't speak to Penn, but there are CLS students at 3.1 and 3.2 getting jobs at large firms in CA (albeit los angeles, not SF). That's well below median. The only firms that would really look for top 20% are Irell, MTO, Susman, Keker. Maybe Gibson but I think you can still be competitive from any honors group. So your impression is overly conservative.

People strike out every year from California firms, but it's not because every firm in LA has a high grade cut off for Columbia students. Often it's not getting in the room with enough firms, or having weak ties, or not making a great impression on a few people at a firm that you'd otherwise be competitive for.

[Anonymous User]

So is there any hope of adding Kirkland & Ellis at hospitality suites at all considering so many people didn't get interviews having ranked them at 1? If not, should I be talking to (by that I mean emailing) their hiring contact?

[Anonymous User]

So is there any hope of adding Kirkland & Ellis at hospitality suites at all considering so many people didn't get interviews having ranked them at 1? If not, should I be talking to (by that I mean emailing) their hiring contact?

I'm also a rising 2L so I can't speak to if you're better of going the suite route. But, from personal experience this summer in contacting recruiters directly, nearly every one of them has told me "if you don't get an interview with us from your bid list let me know and I'll make sure we set something up." Granted, these are all for non-NY offices, but I think directly contacting the recruiter certainly may lead to getting you at least a screener.

[codeandcodes]

Also, if you're curious about what the cutoff is, I can't remember precisely (we had a book). I would imagine it's somewhere around top 20%.

Can't speak to Penn, but there are CLS students at 3.1 and 3.2 getting jobs at large firms in CA (albeit los angeles, not SF). That's well below median. The only firms that would really look for top 20% are Irell, MTO, Susman, Keker. Maybe Gibson but I think you can still be competitive from any honors group. So your impression is overly conservative.

People strike out every year from California firms, but it's not because every firm in LA has a high grade cut off for Columbia students. Often it's not getting in the room with enough firms, or having weak ties, or not making a great impression on a few people at a firm that you'd otherwise be competitive for.

One more piece of advice I would give and I wish I had known:
There are lots of CA-headquartered firms that I didn't look at because I was worried about their offer rates. I have friends at Gunderson, Wilson Sonsini, Fenwick & West, MoFo, and by and large, I would say that they all had a better/easier experience than me.

As for Irell/MTO/Susman (aren't they in texas or something?)/Keker, these are all lit shops, so just be aware when applying.

[John_Luther1989]

Protip: If you're good friends with rising 3Ls or new grads who are working at a firm you like, reach out to them. Firms like people who other people will vouch for (assuming the firm didn't fucking hate the person who gives them your name). I've already recommended a couple people to my firm, one of whom was brought in for pre-EIP callback and the others have been given post-EIP callbacks without having to do a screener.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone explain how the lottery at EIP works? The one that happens in the early morning?

[Anonymous User]

If people are interested in DC, you should absolutely try to pick some of those firms up and/or contact their recruiting offices. I've spoken to some AR&D department folks the past few days and they've been lamenting that, for whatever reason (which we know to be OCS and other students preaching that DC is nigh impenetrable), CLS students aren't applying as much as they'd like to see. Above median is better, but median -> DC can and does happen. It would be great to see more CLS people summer in DC.

[mylifeis24]

If people are interested in DC, you should absolutely try to pick some of those firms up and/or contact their recruiting offices. I've spoken to some AR&D department folks the past few days and they've been lamenting that, for whatever reason (which we know to be OCS and other students preaching that DC is nigh impenetrable), CLS students aren't applying as much as they'd like to see. Above median is better, but median -> DC can and does happen. It would be great to see more CLS people summer in DC.

Nice to hear this

[Anonymous User]

If I missed a firm via the bidding and want to try and schedule myself in, should I just email them requesting or should I be more formal and send in a cover letter and do it like a mailing process? I would just like to add if they can fit me in at EIP since I couldn't get them off the bidding.

[Anonymous User]

If I missed a firm via the bidding and want to try and schedule myself in, should I just email them requesting or should I be more formal and send in a cover letter and do it like a mailing process? I would just like to add if they can fit me in at EIP since I couldn't get them off the bidding.

I think it definitely doesn't hurt to go the more formal route, because at worst they say no and you can still visit them in the hospitality suite and at best you get a CB.

[Anonymous User]

whats the deal with this panel thing tomorrow? is it required/worth going to? I still dont understand how eip works so sort of feel like i should figure things out, but spending several hours listening to 'insight' like "it is advisable not to verbally attack your interviewer!! try to make eye contact and maybe even consider being interesting!" and getting stressed out by classmates sounds like a special kind of hell.

[bobr]

whats the deal with this panel thing tomorrow? is it required/worth going to? I still dont understand how eip works so sort of feel like i should figure things out, but spending several hours listening to 'insight' like "it is advisable not to verbally attack your interviewer!! try to make eye contact and maybe even consider being interesting!" and getting stressed out by classmates sounds like a special kind of hell.

No need to go if it would stress you out. All shit you would think/know of, and it's just a chance to listen to a few 3Ls who are arrogant enough to think they have something unique to impart.

[jbagelboy]

whats the deal with this panel thing tomorrow? is it required/worth going to? I still dont understand how eip works so sort of feel like i should figure things out, but spending several hours listening to 'insight' like "it is advisable not to verbally attack your interviewer!! try to make eye contact and maybe even consider being interesting!" and getting stressed out by classmates sounds like a special kind of hell.

No need to go if it would stress you out. All shit you would think/know of, and it's just a chance to listen to a few 3Ls who are arrogant enough to think they have something unique to impart.

Agree its certainly useless, I didn't go last year and I'm thousands of miles away now, but I wouldn't be so quick to judge the students who participate, usually they are roped in by OCS and don't actually volunteer themselves