2014 Texas OCI (UT and other schools bidding on TX) Forum

[Anonymous User]

How did this never come up until now? Ask them.

V&E has a first half program, they likely will not let you not be there for those 6 weeks.

I do know of one person who split and did the second half with BB last summer (they have a first half program as well), but that was a unique situation, as they wanted him for a specific group due to his background.

I just got the V&E offer today, was why. I'd been planning on working for a New York firm that requires me to spend the first 10 weeks there until this came up. I have no special background.

I appreciate that!

Please report back if you hear positive news on this. I had been planning on taking V&E over a V5, but it would be great if I could do both. I didn't even bother trying because I figured splitting was a non-option since both firms would require the first X weeks with them.

[Anonymous User]

What type of exit opportunities do the litigation boutiques (non-Susman) offer? Based off conversations I've had with other attorneys, it doesn't appear that the boutiques offer any decisive advantages over the major firms w/r/t/ Texas government work (e.g., USAO). Curious as to where boutique litigators go if they want to leave the firm?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone (ITT or heard otherwise) been dinged from Latham post-CB?

Never mind

For posterity's sake, Latham Houston CB to offer was 6 calendar days

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone (ITT or heard otherwise) been dinged from Latham post-CB?

Never mind

For posterity's sake, Latham Houston CB to offer was 6 calendar days

Congrats! Do you think you're going to take it?

I've been weighing Latham vs. V&E vs. K&E for a while now, and I can't make up my mind.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone (ITT or heard otherwise) been dinged from Latham post-CB?

Never mind

For posterity's sake, Latham Houston CB to offer was 6 calendar days

Congrats! Do you think you're going to take it?

I've been weighing Latham vs. V&E vs. K&E for a while now, and I can't make up my mind.

Full disclosure: I don't have those other options

But yes, absolutely, I felt really good about them on my callback so for me it's a no-brainer

Just on paper I'm a little leery of Kirkland but I think between Latham and V&E you can just choose based on fit/coin flip. But again, you know those firms much better than I do from doing callbacks with them and probably doing a lot more research. All three are really good options IMO.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw the corporate attorneys at V&E I interviewed with spoke pretty highly of Latham. They said that Latham is the only satellite office in Houston that's worth a damn (paraphrasing). Specifically referred to Kirkland as a shitshow (paraphrasing).

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw the corporate attorneys at V&E I interviewed with spoke pretty highly of Latham. They said that Latham is the only satellite office in Houston that's worth a damn (paraphrasing). Specifically referred to Kirkland as a shitshow (paraphrasing).

Why is Kirkland a shitshow? They've only been around for 4-5 months, and that 20k bonus is pretty enticing.

I'm leaning V&E, but I still haven't called to accept yet because I'm still intrigued by Kirkland.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw the corporate attorneys at V&E I interviewed with spoke pretty highly of Latham. They said that Latham is the only satellite office in Houston that's worth a damn (paraphrasing). Specifically referred to Kirkland as a shitshow (paraphrasing).

Why is Kirkland a shitshow? They've only been around for 4-5 months, and that 20k bonus is pretty enticing.

I'm leaning V&E, but I still haven't called to accept yet because I'm still intrigued by Kirkland.

I two think V&E or Latham is the way to go in this situation (full disclosure: I just finished a summer at one of those two firms and accepted an offer). Both firms do great work and are full of good people.

I do not want to bash Kirkland, but I have heard stories that the people there are somewhat insufferable. Think, bashing other firms in town to CB candidates insufferable.

The office is small, new and imo way too dependent on PE. V&E is full service, and while they have shrunk some, they are not going anywhere any time soon, they are a Houston institution. Latham has great relationships with all the big IBanks, and gets tons of work from them. Also, the nature of the product V&E and Latham deal in on the cap. markets side (Master Limited Partnerships) lead to long term clients that provide a lot of follow up work.

I am also wary of an office, like Kirkland's houston shop, that has no real partner base. Young is good, but there is no way to know if any of the promoted people can bring in business long term. Seems risky to me given your other options. K&E is a great firm, but I would not take a risk on them at this point in Houston.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw the corporate attorneys at V&E I interviewed with spoke pretty highly of Latham. They said that Latham is the only satellite office in Houston that's worth a damn (paraphrasing). Specifically referred to Kirkland as a shitshow (paraphrasing).

Why is Kirkland a shitshow? They've only been around for 4-5 months, and that 20k bonus is pretty enticing.

I'm leaning V&E, but I still haven't called to accept yet because I'm still intrigued by Kirkland.

I two think V&E or Latham is the way to go in this situation (full disclosure: I just finished a summer at one of those two firms and accepted an offer). Both firms do great work and are full of good people.

I do not want to bash Kirkland, but I have heard stories that the people there are somewhat insufferable. Think, bashing other firms in town to CB candidates insufferable.

The office is small, new and imo way too dependent on PE. V&E is full service, and while they have shrunk some, they are not going anywhere any time soon, they are a Houston institution. Latham has great relationships with all the big IBanks, and gets tons of work from them. Also, the nature of the product V&E and Latham deal in on the cap. markets side (Master Limited Partnerships) lead to long term clients that provide a lot of follow up work.

I am also wary of an office, like Kirkland's houston shop, that has no real partner base. Young is good, but there is no way to know if any of the promoted people can bring in business long term. Seems risky to me given your other options. K&E is a great firm, but I would not take a risk on them at this point in Houston.

Thank you for the advice. If I liked the people at V&E the most and think I would be a better fit there, should I go ahead and take them over Latham and K&E? Kinda embarrassed to say it, but the main reason I've been holding out despite V&E seeming like a no brainer for me (want to do corporate work, interested in energy industry, family/friends in Houston, desire to be in TX long-term) is because of the prestige of a V10, the national reputation of the other two, and the 20k signing bonus at K&E.

But yeah, a couple of my CB interviewers at K&E did talk down V&E/Latham/BB, which I found a little off-putting.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw the corporate attorneys at V&E I interviewed with spoke pretty highly of Latham. They said that Latham is the only satellite office in Houston that's worth a damn (paraphrasing). Specifically referred to Kirkland as a shitshow (paraphrasing).

Why is Kirkland a shitshow? They've only been around for 4-5 months, and that 20k bonus is pretty enticing.

I'm leaning V&E, but I still haven't called to accept yet because I'm still intrigued by Kirkland.

I two think V&E or Latham is the way to go in this situation (full disclosure: I just finished a summer at one of those two firms and accepted an offer). Both firms do great work and are full of good people.

I do not want to bash Kirkland, but I have heard stories that the people there are somewhat insufferable. Think, bashing other firms in town to CB candidates insufferable.

The office is small, new and imo way too dependent on PE. V&E is full service, and while they have shrunk some, they are not going anywhere any time soon, they are a Houston institution. Latham has great relationships with all the big IBanks, and gets tons of work from them. Also, the nature of the product V&E and Latham deal in on the cap. markets side (Master Limited Partnerships) lead to long term clients that provide a lot of follow up work.

I am also wary of an office, like Kirkland's houston shop, that has no real partner base. Young is good, but there is no way to know if any of the promoted people can bring in business long term. Seems risky to me given your other options. K&E is a great firm, but I would not take a risk on them at this point in Houston.

Thank you for the advice. If I liked the people at V&E the most and think I would be a better fit there, should I go ahead and take them over Latham and K&E? Kinda embarrassed to say it, but the main reason I've been holding out despite V&E seeming like a no brainer for me (want to do corporate work, interested in energy industry, family/friends in Houston, desire to be in TX long-term) is because of the prestige of a V10, the national reputation of the other two, and the 20k signing bonus at K&E.

But yeah, a couple of my CB interviewers at K&E did talk down V&E/Latham/BB, which I found a little off-putting.

Same anon as above:

If you liked V&E best, take them and dont look back. If you want to stay in Texas long term, it is a great choice. If you are going into energy, V&E has a great national reputation.

As for the other things you mentioned, 20K isnt worth going somewhere insufferable. FWIW, Latham pays all its new hires a 15K bonus, and V&E covers a bar class and all fees (5K+ value at least). Money will be good at any of your choices, and given the massive amounts of $ K&E spent to open the houston office, I would be worried that raises/bonuses might not be the best in the near future (not an idea I can claim as my own, lunch discussion with several junior/midlevel associates at my summer firm)

[Anonymous User]

I personally know a couple of the 3Ls who'll be joining K&E in Houston next year. They're pretty... quirky is the polite word. You get my drift, but basically they're guys I'd rather not work with. Definitely echo the above, accept V&E, and congrats!

[Anonymous User]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

[Anonymous User]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

There are stories bouncing around the internet (ATL discussed it a few years ago), also 3L's with Latham offers confirm. Latham pays all graduating associates a 15K bonus in the spring of their 3L year to cover bar prep and fees and living expenses.

Keep in mind that regardless of who you take in this situation, bonuses ARE taxed. usually 25% flat rate plus ss/medicare. Thus, 20K @ K&E ends up being ~$12,500 and 15K at Latham ~ $10,500 in Texas (yay for no state income tax)

[Anonymous User]

has anyone that interviewed with simpson thatcher houston at OCI received dings from them? My interview was awhile ago and I havent heard anything

[Anonymous User]

any post CB dings from BB?

[BVest]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

There are stories bouncing around the internet (ATL discussed it a few years ago), also 3L's with Latham offers confirm. Latham pays all graduating associates a 15K bonus in the spring of their 3L year to cover bar prep and fees and living expenses.

Keep in mind that regardless of who you take in this situation, bonuses ARE taxed. usually 25% flat rate plus ss/medicare. Thus, 20K @ K&E ends up being ~$12,500 and 15K at Latham ~ $10,500 in Texas (yay for no state income tax)

More like $13,500 and $10,000 (20 and 15k less 32.65% for WH + FICA + MCare).

This implies that they don't reimburse for Bar Prep, is that right? So... minus $4300 for barbri (or less if you locked in your tuition 1L or 2L year -- barbri has gone up $300-400/year for each of the last few years) and $320 for the state BLE.

[Anonymous User]

Classmate accepted offer from JW (Hou).

[Anonymous User]

Chamberlain Hrdlicka dings appear to have gone out today.

[Anonymous User]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

There are stories bouncing around the internet (ATL discussed it a few years ago), also 3L's with Latham offers confirm. Latham pays all graduating associates a 15K bonus in the spring of their 3L year to cover bar prep and fees and living expenses.

Keep in mind that regardless of who you take in this situation, bonuses ARE taxed. usually 25% flat rate plus ss/medicare. Thus, 20K @ K&E ends up being ~$12,500 and 15K at Latham ~ $10,500 in Texas (yay for no state income tax)

More like $13,500 and $10,000 (20 and 15k less 32.65% for WH + FICA + MCare).

This implies that they don't reimburse for Bar Prep, is that right? So... minus $4300 for barbri (or less if you locked in your tuition 1L or 2L year -- barbri has gone up $300-400/year for each of the last few years) and $320 for the state BLE.

I'm the anon above who was/is debating Latham/Kirkland/V&E/BB, and I don't think that's right for K&E. Based on my interviews, it seems like the 20k SA bonus (for the summer of 2015) is on top of the standard 10k bar study stipend + bar exam/review reimbursement (for the summer of 2016).

That's why I was having so much trouble turning down K&E for V&E, but the anons above are making it seem like K&E is risky and the people aren't so great. 20-30k (before taxes) is a huge deal to me, but I would prefer not to be miserable. So I'm still leaning V&E.

[Anonymous User]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

There are stories bouncing around the internet (ATL discussed it a few years ago), also 3L's with Latham offers confirm. Latham pays all graduating associates a 15K bonus in the spring of their 3L year to cover bar prep and fees and living expenses.

Keep in mind that regardless of who you take in this situation, bonuses ARE taxed. usually 25% flat rate plus ss/medicare. Thus, 20K @ K&E ends up being ~$12,500 and 15K at Latham ~ $10,500 in Texas (yay for no state income tax)

More like $13,500 and $10,000 (20 and 15k less 32.65% for WH + FICA + MCare).

This implies that they don't reimburse for Bar Prep, is that right? So... minus $4300 for barbri (or less if you locked in your tuition 1L or 2L year -- barbri has gone up $300-400/year for each of the last few years) and $320 for the state BLE.

I'm the anon above who was/is debating Latham/Kirkland/V&E/BB, and I don't think that's right for K&E. Based on my interviews, it seems like the 20k SA bonus (for the summer of 2015) is on top of the standard 10k bar study stipend + bar exam/review reimbursement (for the summer of 2016).

That's why I was having so much trouble turning down K&E for V&E, but the anons above are making it seem like K&E is risky and the people aren't so great. 20-30k (before taxes) is a huge deal to me, but I would prefer not to be miserable. So I'm still leaning V&E.

I personally wouldn't take career advice from anons (including myself). K&E is probably riskier than your other options given that the office opened in April and there is a dominant focus on PE. However, I would also argue it has the most upside of your choices. As far as the people, did you not get a feel when you were there? I met over a third of their office on my callback

[BVest]

I'm the anon above who was/is debating Latham/Kirkland/V&E/BB, and I don't think that's right for K&E. Based on my interviews, it seems like the 20k SA bonus (for the summer of 2015) is on top of the standard 10k bar study stipend + bar exam/review reimbursement (for the summer of 2016).

20K SA bonus? Do you mean in addition to the $3077 (or whatever market is next year) per week (which, for six weeks is about $18,500)? That would seem absolutely insane.

[Anonymous User]

Question for the anon 2 posts above- How do you know Latham gives a 15K bonus? Is that something they broadcast anywhere because I couldn't find that? Just curious

There are stories bouncing around the internet (ATL discussed it a few years ago), also 3L's with Latham offers confirm. Latham pays all graduating associates a 15K bonus in the spring of their 3L year to cover bar prep and fees and living expenses.

Keep in mind that regardless of who you take in this situation, bonuses ARE taxed. usually 25% flat rate plus ss/medicare. Thus, 20K @ K&E ends up being ~$12,500 and 15K at Latham ~ $10,500 in Texas (yay for no state income tax)

More like $13,500 and $10,000 (20 and 15k less 32.65% for WH + FICA + MCare).

This implies that they don't reimburse for Bar Prep, is that right? So... minus $4300 for barbri (or less if you locked in your tuition 1L or 2L year -- barbri has gone up $300-400/year for each of the last few years) and $320 for the state BLE.

I'm the anon above who was/is debating Latham/Kirkland/V&E/BB, and I don't think that's right for K&E. Based on my interviews, it seems like the 20k SA bonus (for the summer of 2015) is on top of the standard 10k bar study stipend + bar exam/review reimbursement (for the summer of 2016).

That's why I was having so much trouble turning down K&E for V&E, but the anons above are making it seem like K&E is risky and the people aren't so great. 20-30k (before taxes) is a huge deal to me, but I would prefer not to be miserable. So I'm still leaning V&E.

I think that's right re the 30k at K&E. Honestly, I don't think you should put too much credence in what other people on here say. K&E obviously committed tremendous amount of money into the Houston market and are planning on an aggressive expansion, I don't think there's any more risk with them than there is with Latham/V&E. If you didn't like the people at any of the firms, K&E included, when you met them, then obviously don't go there regardless of the money. Also consider whether you're interested in doing M&A, cap markets, debt or other. I think Latham and V&E are very cap markets/debt heavy, which is fine if that's the career path you're interested in pursuing. I understand K&E is building those practices, but it's primarily M&A for now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon above who was/is debating Latham/Kirkland/V&E/BB, and I don't think that's right for K&E. Based on my interviews, it seems like the 20k SA bonus (for the summer of 2015) is on top of the standard 10k bar study stipend + bar exam/review reimbursement (for the summer of 2016).

20K SA bonus? Do you mean in addition to the $3077 (or whatever market is next year) per week (which, for six weeks is about $18,500)? That would seem absolutely insane.

Yeah, the 20k SA bonus is separate. In addition to the $3077/week, you get a stipend of 10k for the summer and are paid another 10k upon accepting a full-time offer.

[Anonymous User]

I personally wouldn't take career advice from anons (including myself). K&E is probably riskier than your other options given that the office opened in April and there is a dominant focus on PE. However, I would also argue it has the most upside of your choices. As far as the people, did you not get a feel when you were there? I met over a third of their office on my callback

I got a pretty good feel. As far as people for me it was V&E > K&E > Latham >>>>> BB.

I liked the energy and the start-up feel. Like you, I met about a third of the office, and people seemed like they worked very hard but were very confident in the success of the office going forward. Basically everybody was a lateral from V&E/BB or from the mothership K&E Chicago office. I was also told that they would be very direct with me and that it wasn't the place to go if I wanted to coast: I would be out the door after a year if I was a mediocre associate. I plan on working hard, but that kinda scared me. Definitely gave me a bit of a sweatshop (we're doing this deal, and we want it done right now!) vibe. But at the same time, I know I'll be working my ass off regardless of which firm I choose.

If I'm working my ass off regardless, though, it makes sense to make as much money as I can. And K&E is paying 20-30k more than any other shop in Houston. Plus it has a reputation for giving out higher end-of-year bonuses.

I could see myself getting along with the people at V&E/K&E/LW, honestly. It was just BB that seemed a little off to me (based on my personality, I know others might feel differently).

[Anonymous User]

I think that's right re the 30k at K&E. Honestly, I don't think you should put too much credence in what other people on here say. K&E obviously committed tremendous amount of money into the Houston market and are planning on an aggressive expansion, I don't think there's any more risk with them than there is with Latham/V&E. If you didn't like the people at any of the firms, K&E included, when you met them, then obviously don't go there regardless of the money. Also consider whether you're interested in doing M&A, cap markets, debt or other. I think Latham and V&E are very cap markets/debt heavy, which is fine if that's the career path you're interested in pursuing. I understand K&E is building those practices, but it's primarily M&A for now.

I know I want to do corporate, but I'm not really sure what I want to do beyond that. K&E's singular focus on PE concerns me because I've never done PE and am not sure whether I'll like it, though I guess M&A PE probably won't be noticeably worse or better for me than non-PE M&A.

I planned on rotating through Cap Markets/M&A/Energy Transactions and Projects this summer to get a feel for all of them, and that was something I found appealing about V&E/Latham. Their corporate groups would allow me to try a little bit of everything. I also like the idea of being in a home office, which was swaying me in V&E's direction. But the SA bonus and general compensation structure at K&E is pretty appealing too.