NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[Icculus]

Sure, ties are important, but will it really be devastating to want both Chicago and Hometown City?

I dunno, how strong are your grades? And is Hometown actually hiring summers?

Not strong, and yes but small class size. I see your point.

Edit: so does that mean I shouldn't rank my office preferences and should just choose one? I assume, the firm gets to see the ranks, and it would look bad to rank 4 out of 9 offices or whatever.

I don't think anyone really cares what you ranked on symplicity. They ask you again when you walk in anyway.

People didn't even know what I ranked. They just asked me.

[09042014]

Yea, it's a TRAP when they ask which office. Only say 1. First, usually when you have "multiple" cities on the schedule, you just got the main office and "others." The interviewer is typically from the main. And it ends up being mostly a glorified resume drop for the "others".

There are definitely exceptions but if you are just trolling for anything that bites, just pick the city the interview is from if it's the big office.

Then again, you gotta use some common sense and tact. I got a CB in some rando city because that is their main office and I went in for Chicago but when they said no dice to Chicago I talked about how much family I had in X state and I love the midbest.

[IAFG]

I hope you guys are working on pitches and cover letters and getting help from competent sources. This is your prime window of employability. If you miss this window, you will struggle. Employment is your first priority. Make it happen.

[Anonymous User]

I hope you guys are working on pitches and cover letters and getting help from competent sources. This is your prime window of employability. If you miss this window, you will struggle. Employment is your first priority. Make it happen.

You're my competent authority

Can you explain what should be in our pitches?

[IAFG]

I hope you guys are working on pitches and cover letters and getting help from competent sources. This is your prime window of employability. If you miss this window, you will struggle. Employment is your first priority. Make it happen.

You're my competent authority

Can you explain what should be in our pitches?

No, I am not. I am a 0th year associate who hasn't even gotten her practice area assignment yet. You just need to be able to answer the question "why" in a way that doesn't sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. The best way to do this is to run it past someone who works in the practice areas you're selling yourself for.

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Does it matter if the people we reach out to are members of firms we (hope to) interview with? Or is it unlikely that they'll be communicating with recruiters/nobody will really care?

[IAFG]

I don't understand the question.

[Icculus]

Does it matter if the people we reach out to are members of firms we (hope to) interview with? Or is it unlikely that they'll be communicating with recruiters/nobody will really care?

The idea is to get input from people who can tell you whether your pitch/sell is good or not. My advice would be to try and talk to NU alums in the practice area you want to pitch and not worry about the firms since a junior associate is unlikely to have any contact with recruiting/hiring and alums generally like to help out current students. But you need to be talking to someone who is actually in the practice area so a 0 or 1st year associate is probably not the best go to.

[Icculus]

And just an FYI to everyone, while IAFG may seem like she is being the mother hen (no offense) her advice is spot on and you should listen to her. I know people who struck out at OCI who run the gammit from median through 3.9+ so grades by themselves are not a guarantee for anything. If you have a 4.33 will some firm be willing to take a chance on you even if you bomb your interview? Probably. But other than that you need to be prepared for these. And remember, they are not behavioral interviews. Most OCI screeners and CBs I went on would ask very open ended questions or focus on a piece of my resume and ask me to discuss it (usually something that I and the interviewer had in common). The best interviews I had essentially turned into conversations the worst ones turned into awkward silences when it was clear the interviewer and I were not connecting or the interviewer was doing a multi office interview and it was nothing more than a resume drop. And while many interviewers were looking for a person they could see themselves working with, every interviewer expected me to (1) be knwoledgable about the firm and have firm specific questions and (2) have at least some idea of what practice area I was interested in and why and (3) have an answer to why I had bid that firm. Remember, these interviewers are not comparing notes. You can have different answers for everyone.

tl;dr: listen to IAFG. You only have one shot at getting a job and OCI and mass mailing should be your only focus until you get a job.

As an aside, schedule CBs as soon as possible even if it means missing classes, parties, holidays, family events, etc.

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Does it matter if the people we reach out to are members of firms we (hope to) interview with? Or is it unlikely that they'll be communicating with recruiters/nobody will really care?

The idea is to get input from people who can tell you whether your pitch/sell is good or not. My advice would be to try and talk to NU alums in the practice area you want to pitch and not worry about the firms since a junior associate is unlikely to have any contact with recruiting/hiring and alums generally like to help out current students. But you need to be talking to someone who is actually in the practice area so a 0 or 1st year associate is probably not the best go to.

thanks! Sorry if I was a little unclear.

[Anonymous User]

If I get offered an interview through mass mailing and I'm informed that I'm meeting with several (3-6) attorneys, I should consider that more like a call back than a screener, right? Also, how quickly do cb spots fill up after OCI? Is it worth it to schedule some of these quasi-cbs in a secondary market the week after OCI? Will I still be able to fit real call backs in?

[Bumi]

Oh man, is it time for my callback speech?! Hooray! Here are all the things I didn't know last year about callbacks that are important.

First know that many people get one to three callbacks and this is normal. Enjoy them, do the best you can, and make the most of them. If your other ten screening interviews lead to nothing, don't get discouraged. Just keep grinding. Everyone is going to get rejection letters so do not take them personally.

When a callback call comes, they will want to talk about the dates you're available and they will often ask you again what practice areas you are interested in so they can set up interviews with people who do that work. It is good to say practice areas that the firm actually has. After screwing this up once, I learned to let calls like this go to voicemail, listen to find out what firm it was, figure out my availability and the practice areas that they actually have, go to a quiet and private place, THEN call them back (ASAP). Do NOT take a call from a number you don't recognize outdoors when jets are flying over for the airshow. Do NOT say "thank you Cravath for the callback!" in the library.

Icculus is right. You have zero commitments over the next two months that are more important than interviews and callbacks, period. I got some callbacks the week before school started. Did I schedule them as soon as possible on days when I had class? I did not, I scheduled them for later in the week when I didn't have class. Did I get offers at those firms? No I did not. Maybe I wasn't going to get an offer anyway, which is totally plausible let's be honest here, but when my classmates were scheduling their callbacks on the first available day, and I was pushing mine out, who do you think the firm is going to want? God I was stupid.

HOWEVER, there is one exception to this rule: If you get multiple callbacks out of town, try to do them on back to back days. You don't want to be flying back and forth between Chicago and your #2 city every single day in late August like I did. The firms understand that you want to fly to Atlanta or whatever only once, and they will split the cost of flying you out and putting you in a hotel for two or whatever nights. I did not know this until a recruiter asked me directly "aren't you also interviewing other places in our city? Well then can't you schedule this callback on the day after one of those?" Oh, am I supposed to do that? Yes you are supposed to do that.

Flying out of O'hare at 6am before a morning callback is painful. Fly the night before.

Finally! Even if you have ninety callbacks, you don't have an offer until you have an offer. Keep grinding *until you have an offer*. There are always stories of people who had six callbacks and got no offers from them. You might be that guy. Don't take your foot off the gas until you have an offer.

[rinkrat19]

Obviously firms do a bajillion screeners for each open SA slot, but is there any estimate on how many callbacks is typical per opening? (Basically, what are your odds if you manage to snag a CB?)

ETA: I know that's impossible to answer precisely and it shouldn't matter anyway for effort put forth. But I'm curious.

ETA2: And did the great debate finally settle on a thank-you via email, rather than handwritten, for a screener?

[Bumi]

If I get offered an interview through mass mailing and I'm informed that I'm meeting with several (3-6) attorneys, I should consider that more like a call back than a screener, right? Also, how quickly do cb spots fill up after OCI? Is it worth it to schedule some of these quasi-cbs in a secondary market the week after OCI? Will I still be able to fit real call backs in?

It depends on the firm. I did something like that as a result of mailing, got all excited for my "callback," and then the recruiter told me that morning that they would bring me back again for a "real" callback if they wanted to consider me. (which they didn't.) But it doesn't really matter. It's a firm who wants to talk to you! Do it as soon as you can and do the best you can.

Different firms do callbacks at different times. Some firms call the night of the OCI interview, others call weeks later. The likelihood that you'll have five firms that want to do callbacks with you the week after OCI is low for multiple reasons, and if you DON'T have that you'll wish you had talked to this firm as soon as possible.

[Anonymous User]

If I get offered an interview through mass mailing and I'm informed that I'm meeting with several (3-6) attorneys, I should consider that more like a call back than a screener, right? Also, how quickly do cb spots fill up after OCI? Is it worth it to schedule some of these quasi-cbs in a secondary market the week after OCI? Will I still be able to fit real call backs in?

It depends on the firm. I did something like that as a result of mailing, got all excited for my "callback," and then the recruiter told me that morning that they would bring me back again for a "real" callback if they wanted to consider me. (which they didn't.) But it doesn't really matter. It's a firm who wants to talk to you! Do it as soon as you can and do the best you can.

Different firms do callbacks at different times. Some firms call the night of the OCI interview, others call weeks later. The likelihood that you'll have five firms that want to do callbacks with you the week after OCI is low for multiple reasons, and if you DON'T have that you'll wish you had talked to this firm as soon as possible.

Thanks!

[Icculus]

If you get multiple callbacks out of town, try to do them on back to back days. You don't want to be flying back and forth between Chicago and your #2 city every single day in late August like I did. The firms understand that you want to fly to Atlanta or whatever only once, and they will split the cost of flying you out and putting you in a hotel for two or whatever nights. I did not know this until a recruiter asked me directly "aren't you also interviewing other places in our city? Well then can't you schedule this callback on the day after one of those?" Oh, am I supposed to do that? Yes you are supposed to do that.

Flying out of O'hare at 6am before a morning callback is painful. Fly the night before.

This is sooo credited. I basically lived out of a suitcase in NYC and Boston hotels the first week plus of school.

[bk1]

Obviously firms do a bajillion screeners for each open SA slot, but is there any estimate on how many callbacks is typical per opening? (Basically, what are your odds if you manage to snag a CB?)

ETA: I know that's impossible to answer precisely and it shouldn't matter anyway for effort put forth. But I'm curious.

ETA2: And did the great debate finally settle on a thank-you via email, rather than handwritten, for a screener?

1. It varies widely from firm to firm. "Typical" is meaningless information. As IAFG has repeatedly said, it doesn't matter what your odds are at any point in the process because you either have an offer or you don't. That is all that is important.

2. I wouldn't bother with thank you stuff.

[bk1]

HOWEVER, there is one exception to this rule: If you get multiple callbacks out of town, try to do them on back to back days. You don't want to be flying back and forth between Chicago and your #2 city every single day in late August like I did. The firms understand that you want to fly to Atlanta or whatever only once, and they will split the cost of flying you out and putting you in a hotel for two or whatever nights. I did not know this until a recruiter asked me directly "aren't you also interviewing other places in our city? Well then can't you schedule this callback on the day after one of those?" Oh, am I supposed to do that? Yes you are supposed to do that.

I agree that it's inconvenient to keep flying around and would suggest avoiding it if at all possible, but I do think there is also value to be had in doing a CB as soon as humanly possible. Firms give out offers on a rolling schedule and delaying your CB by more than a week is not a good idea, imo. I also did not have any firms get cheap on me and prefer I schedule my CBs at a time that would save them money, though I have heard of it happening.

[Icculus]

Obviously firms do a bajillion screeners for each open SA slot, but is there any estimate on how many callbacks is typical per opening? (Basically, what are your odds if you manage to snag a CB?)

ETA: I know that's impossible to answer precisely and it shouldn't matter anyway for effort put forth. But I'm curious.

ETA2: And did the great debate finally settle on a thank-you via email, rather than handwritten, for a screener?

1. No one knows. Some firms have a 2:1 CB to offer ratio, some have a 10:1, totally depends on the firm. A CB in this economy is not merely an opportunity to not fuck up, it's a round of interviews where you really need to impress. Do not assume a CB means an offer, and do not go trying to figure out your odds. Your only focus right now should be: impress at screeners, impress at CBs, and keep working/hustling/etc. until you get a job. I cannot stress this enough: CLASSES ARE YOUR LOWEST PRIORITY THROUGH HIRING SEASON. YOU MISS CLASSES, JOURNAL MEETINGS, EXTRA CURRICULARS, EVERYTHING FOR INTERVIEWS AND CALL BACKS.


2. I didn't send a single thank you to a screener or cb interviewer. I don't think it hurt me. But if I were to send one it would be through email. Lawyers have enough paper to deal with. They probably have too many emails as well.

Edit: Spelling.

[Icculus]

HOWEVER, there is one exception to this rule: If you get multiple callbacks out of town, try to do them on back to back days. You don't want to be flying back and forth between Chicago and your #2 city every single day in late August like I did. The firms understand that you want to fly to Atlanta or whatever only once, and they will split the cost of flying you out and putting you in a hotel for two or whatever nights. I did not know this until a recruiter asked me directly "aren't you also interviewing other places in our city? Well then can't you schedule this callback on the day after one of those?" Oh, am I supposed to do that? Yes you are supposed to do that.

I agree that it's inconvenient to keep flying around and would suggest avoiding it if at all possible, but I do think there is also value to be had in doing a CB as soon as humanly possible. Firms give out offers on a rolling schedule and delaying your CB by more than a week is not a good idea, imo. I also did not have any firms get cheap on me and prefer I schedule my CBs at a time that would save them money, though I have heard of it happening.

I agree with bk here. However many firms are willing to work with your cb schedule if they KNOW you will be in a city. I had several firms willing to move up my CB day when they knew I would already be in the city. That said, early is always better.

[bdubs]

Obviously firms do a bajillion screeners for each open SA slot, but is there any estimate on how many callbacks is typical per opening? (Basically, what are your odds if you manage to snag a CB?)

ETA: I know that's impossible to answer precisely and it shouldn't matter anyway for effort put forth. But I'm curious.

ETA2: And did the great debate finally settle on a thank-you via email, rather than handwritten, for a screener?

1. No one knows. Some firms have a 2:1 CB to offer ration, some have a 10:1, totally depends on the firm. A CB in this economy is not merely an opportunity to not fuck up, it's a round of interviews where you really need to impress. Do not assume a CB means an offer, and do not go trying to figure out your odds. Your only focus right now should be: impress at screeners, impress at CBs, and keep working/hustling/etc. until you get a job. I cannot stress this enough: CLASSES ARE YOUR LOWEST PRIORITY THROUGH HIRING SEASON. YOU MISS CLASSES, JOURNAL MEETINGS, EXTRA CURRICULARS, EVERYTHING FOR INTERVIEWS AND CALL BACKS.


2. I didn't send a single thank you to a screener or cb interviewer. I don't think it hurt me. But if I were to send one it would be through email. Lawyers have enough paper to deal with. They probably have too many emails as well.

I will reiterate and add a little.

1) I know this number for my firm and it surprised me a bit. Don't think that because they are paying a god awful amount of money to fly you out and put you up in a fancy hotel that it means that your chances are high. They are willing to spend a totally unreasonable amount of money to get the people that they want (and then pay again over the summer for them to get wined and dined). Treat the CB as though you are still fighting, but be happy because the odds are definitely much more in your favor during a CB than a screener.

2) Also no thank you notes sent and no adverse reaction. Attorneys have full inboxes and they didn't really want to be doing recruiting interviews in the first place.

[Icculus]

Obviously firms do a bajillion screeners for each open SA slot, but is there any estimate on how many callbacks is typical per opening? (Basically, what are your odds if you manage to snag a CB?)

ETA: I know that's impossible to answer precisely and it shouldn't matter anyway for effort put forth. But I'm curious.

ETA2: And did the great debate finally settle on a thank-you via email, rather than handwritten, for a screener?

1. No one knows. Some firms have a 2:1 CB to offer ration, some have a 10:1, totally depends on the firm. A CB in this economy is not merely an opportunity to not fuck up, it's a round of interviews where you really need to impress. Do not assume a CB means an offer, and do not go trying to figure out your odds. Your only focus right now should be: impress at screeners, impress at CBs, and keep working/hustling/etc. until you get a job. I cannot stress this enough: CLASSES ARE YOUR LOWEST PRIORITY THROUGH HIRING SEASON. YOU MISS CLASSES, JOURNAL MEETINGS, EXTRA CURRICULARS, EVERYTHING FOR INTERVIEWS AND CALL BACKS.


2. I didn't send a single thank you to a screener or cb interviewer. I don't think it hurt me. But if I were to send one it would be through email. Lawyers have enough paper to deal with. They probably have too many emails as well.

I will reiterate and add a little.

1) I know this number for my firm and it surprised me a bit. Don't think that because they are paying a god awful amount of money to fly you out and put you up in a fancy hotel that it means that your chances are high. They are willing to spend a totally unreasonable amount of money to get the people that they want (and then pay again over the summer for them to get wined and dined). Treat the CB as though you are still fighting, but be happy because the odds are definitely much more in your favor during a CB than a screener.

2) Also no thank you notes sent and no adverse reaction. Attorneys have full inboxes and they didn't really want to be doing recruiting interviews in the first place.

To add to number 1, remember that many firms, esopecaily in New York are not flying out that many people. So while you may be coming from Chi to NYC, they alsoi have a billion NYC schools to pick from that cost them nothing to bring in. So while only a few NU people may get CBs, 100 NYU students could and it wouldn't change the expenses.

[Anonymous User]

When and how do we find out which firms we got?

[Kikero]

When and how do we find out which firms we got?

They're supposed to be up on Symplicity on Friday.

[rinkrat19]

When and how do we find out which firms we got?

They're supposed to be up on Symplicity on Friday.

So probably the Thursday before OCI, then?